Liverpool Rumours Member Posts

 

ToonRed's Profile

Current Avatar:
No Avatar image uploaded



ToonRed's Posts and Other Poster's Replies To ToonRed's Posts

 

 

To ToonRed's last 5 rumours posts

 

To ToonRed's last 5 banter posts

 

To ToonRed's last 5 rumour replies

 

To ToonRed's last 5 banter replies

 

ToonRed's rumours posts with other poster's replies to ToonRed's rumours posts

 

14 Jul 2023 20:33:14
Chris Bascombe saying we want £20m for Hendo. Fair enough.

ToonRed

1.) 14 Jul 2023 23:56:44
Zero income for Alex Ox-C, Milner, Keita and Firmino: all gone on free transfers, suddenly LFC can be picky about a 10 million GBP shortfall.


2.) 15 Jul 2023 01:57:38
Exactly for the reasons you mentioned?


3.) 15 Jul 2023 08:59:57
Personally I think £20mil is too low.
The mega wealthy Saudis want our club captain who has won every elite trophy there is, with 2yrs left in his contract where we had no plans to sell then they need to cough up.


4.) 15 Jul 2023 09:18:17
10-15 is about right I’d have thought he is 33 and realistically 2/ 3 more years max at a good level . Plus if their paying him 700k a week their not going to be wanting to spend any more than 15 I’d think.


5.) 15 Jul 2023 11:01:51
Surely any fee at all is a bonus. Leaving for free obviously isn’t ideal but if he stays we just pay him 20m over the next two years in wages and he then goes for free anyway. I don’t think what he offers on the pitch any more is that hard to replace he’s probably 7th or 8th choice with Fabinho Thiago Bajcetic Macallister Szoboszlai Jones and Elliott. Replacing Fab would be much more important.


6.) 15 Jul 2023 12:00:34
Maybe it’s about rewarding the player for his services that we let him go for possibly less than his value- I think ed1 alluded to that being why they thought he’d go on a free. Maybe 20 is good for both teams. I’ll be sad to see him go. And to the league he’s going but he’s earned his right to do what he wants I guess. I wonder how it’ll effect his chances for England.


7.) 15 Jul 2023 13:14:40
Holding out for 10 million more for Hendo makes no sense.

Take the 10 million and save 20 million in wages over the next two years.

No one is going to be paying any money for him next summer.


 

 

19 Jun 2023 13:52:12
Rumours of a Saudi bid coming in for Thiago, which wouldn’t be surprising. Anything in it Eds?

ToonRed

{Ed002's Note - I really don't know.}


1.) 19 Jun 2023 20:18:46
Sell him.


2.) 19 Jun 2023 22:09:09
I’d sell him aswell . Great player but he’s a luxury player and we aren’t good enough to afford to have a luxury player we need to be a fully functional unit. Money could be used to go toward someone else also Trent can play his position now ??.


3.) 19 Jun 2023 22:38:38
I think he needs to be surrounded by players in the same wavelength as him and we’ve struggled with that.
Maybe he’d have more chance with a longer run in a settled team.
Often I see a bit of magic, whether a rapid no-look pass or a bit of movement to open up space for a teammate.
When it doesn’t come off Thiago gets the blame, but it’s more a case of him being on a different wavelength.

Class player, just hasn’t gelled. Accept a good offer.


4.) 20 Jun 2023 01:58:23
Great player and personality. Not quite the right fit for our team or even the PL. Older now and getting quite a few injuries so a move is probably best for his career and for the club. Win-win in my opinion if it happens.


5.) 20 Jun 2023 07:26:08
Super player and a joy to watch when he fit and playing well. Just misses too many games threw injury, if got a half decent offer would take it, only 1 year left on his contract as well, will end up going for nothing.


6.) 20 Jun 2023 08:30:19
In a perfect work (in my opinion) we completely trim the injury prone/ dead wood.

Out:
Thiago (sell)
Matip (sell)
Gomez (sell or maybe backup RB)
Carvalho (loan)
Ramsay (loan)
Morton (loan)
Milner (gone)
ox (gone)
keita (I've seen poppadoms with more endurance)
Bob (gutted)

In:


7.) 20 Jun 2023 08:32:57
Hit reply early.

Trent should now be a CM.

In:
1 X quality RB
1 X versatile young CB who can cover RB (maybe even LB)
1 X strong CM more defensive minded (Kone)
1 X box to box CM (Thuram)


8.) 20 Jun 2023 09:04:29
Skezza you said put Trent in midfield and then said we should sign Kone and Thuram (on top of Mac Allister) .

Why sign 3 midfielders if Trent is moving there? What is your logic there mate? Not having a pop just interested. I personally think Bajcetic, Jones and Elliott deserve chances as back up options.


9.) 20 Jun 2023 09:28:26
Agree with MK. Baj and Jones have definitely earned their place in the squad, even if it is as back-up. I would add Morton to that list as well. I don't see how another loan would benefit him. Either he stays with us this season or he leaves permanently.

And I would rather give Bradley a chance instead of buying a new RB. I agree with getting a versatile CB who can cover either RB or LB though.


10.) 20 Jun 2023 10:14:28
It really annoys me when ill informed keyboard warriors talk about 'dead wood' in such a disrespectful way when talking about Liverpool players some of whom have given sterling service to the club. Wo needs trolls with supporters like this?


11.) 20 Jun 2023 12:00:25
If we want to challenge for the title next season, we need 3 midfielders and 2 centrebacks coming in this summer.

Elliott is not a midfielder and never will be. Use him as a backup to Mo Salah or let him move on to a team that will play him as a 10.

Jones has to show he can stay fit. One 10 game run of games is not going to change that. We cannot yet depend on him. If he stays fit and hungry, then he will force his way into the team.

Bajcetic is a baby and still needs to grow into his body. We should not be depending on him.

As for Doak, Morton and Bradley - by all means, give them a chance to be part of the squad this season. Outside of the early cup rounds, I wouldn't expect them to feature regularly.


12.) 20 Jun 2023 12:11:23
Good point Kemlyn.


13.) 20 Jun 2023 12:56:37
OK Kemlyncat maybe for your sensitive ears I should have said less essential players instead of deadwood.
being a supporter with an opinion doesn't make you a troll, things aren't always fluffy and colourful.

My reasoning being:

Matip - Has 1 year left on his contract, has been excellent in years gone but is slowly being phased out. Played (14) games last season, (10) in 20-21 and 9 in 19-20.
His unavailability is an issue and we need players who are consistency available.
Has been an excellent servant for the club and will be loved by everyone involved with the club.

Thiago - is a luxury player who is world class when available but again has injury issues (available for 18 games last season)
He is 32 and has one year left on his contract.
We either sell him now and get younger fresh legs in or we take the hit again (which will soon become a problem if we keep letting players go on a free)
If a Saudi club offers 30m+ for him we will bite their hands off.

Gomez - Personally i'd like to keep him but he's not played consistently under Klopp other than 19-20 (when he was fantastic. )
last three seasons he has a combined 35 appearances.


MK - I agree we shouldn't block Bajcetic, Jones and Elliot but if we sell Thiago I'd like to see another CM come through the door (along with Thuram) . Trent will probably occasionally still play RB or the Inverted WB role, Fabinho (I believe) will slowly be phased out over the season, Kone/ Thuram will take a while to get up to speed with the prem if history tells us anything is that Klopp likes to take his time adapting his players to the team - some took 4 months to start playing regularly. The issue with Liverpool of late is we haven't had the squad to do this and the whole team and individuals have suffered - look at Nunez, was forced into playing regularly from the off and i think needed time to learn the league and the language - was judged very quickly when he is clearly a fantastic player.
We also have Europa this season which means Klopp will rotate a lot more as the days between europe and the prem are fewer.


14.) 20 Jun 2023 13:23:11
Skezza
I believe you are missing the point raised by Kemlyn. The issue here is not that certain players need replacing, it is using the term dead wood. I don't have sensitive ears but I find the term dead wood offensive when talking about Liverpool players. When Kenny or Stevie G were nearing the end of their playing careers where they deemed dead wood.


15.) 20 Jun 2023 14:01:32
thiago - good but very luxury player - sell
Fabinho - done and dusted - sell
Jones - not good enough -- sell (many of us here are sentimental and try to hold on to him because of late season flourish)
Matip - sell
Hendrson - keep but limit time like milner

Get 1 or 2 more midfilders so that we can rotate with Alexis, Eliott, Luiz, Bajectic + Arnold

Get 1 more defender.


16.) 20 Jun 2023 14:21:11
Skezza, i get your point but if we signed a right back as you suggested in order to permanently move Trent into midfield, surely that is instead of signing a 3rd midfielder. It just seems like we'd be over crowding it.

In your scenario we'd have
Trent, Thuram, Mac Allister, Kone, Fabinho, Henderson, Jones, Bajcetic, Elliott and Morton. It just looks like the younger lads would struggle to get a look in there.

If Trent stays as an inverted right back i agree with signing another midfielder though. I just don't want to make the same mistake and bloat the squad again. We've only just managed to get shot of the players on high wages not contributing enough. I'd rather just sign Thuram and Mac Allister if Trent's going to be moved to midfield with the signing of a right back. That's all mate.


17.) 20 Jun 2023 14:40:04
I hope he goes he's never suited our team. Excellent close control and passing but no physical attributes and always gives the ball away in dangerous areas as well as making silly fouls. Obviously not his fault as he's being asked to play a role that doesn't suit his attributes. Time to move on, if it was pep he's already be gone.


18.) 20 Jun 2023 14:51:13
If we move Trent into midfield do we not have Gomez and younger lads who can be used or as back-up and look for a more versatile defender. By the very nature generally defenders are not as costly as midfield players.


19.) 20 Jun 2023 15:09:26
You might be right MK to be fair (I'd like to see Morton go on loan to a top Championship club or lower prem club if at all possible)

If it was a choice between getting a fantastic RB replacement for Trent and one CM (Thuram being my personal #1 and Bajcetic slowly replacing Fabinho) i'd rather that than 2 x CM and keeping Trent in the Inverted WB role.

I'm a full convert that Trent is (already and will get even better still) a top top CM.


20.) 20 Jun 2023 15:16:27
Awk I get what you're saying, 'deadwood' a poor term for those you mention - apart from the absolute disaster that was Keita

I think the major question is whether Trent will move to midfield or do we persist with the hybrid role

If he moves that would give us MacAllister at lcm, Trent at rcm and I would like a cdm signed as I think Fabinho has been past his best for a couple of seasons now tbh

If he stays at rb/ hybrid then we would need a rcm and a cdm

Back ups being: Elliott, Jones, Bacjetic - all of which I would like to see get minutes and then experience in Thiago, Fabinho and Henderson

This allows for more rotation with 9 midfielders to cover 3 spots. We still have Morton as well, who I assume will get a chance pre-season and then either loaned out or integrated into the squad

Also, if we sign a cdm we could see Fabinho sold perhaps and there are reports linking Thiago with a move as discussed today as well

I agree now would be the time to sell Matip and recoup some money. I would also sell Phillips too and would like another cb - reports are we are looking to sign a left sided cb

That leaves us with MacAllister currently bought and the need for either 1 or 2 midfielders (depending on where Trent plays) and a cb.


21.) 20 Jun 2023 16:31:16
Need to look at resale value. I would get rid of Gomez, Carvalho and Elliot. Keep Thiago around for another year to teach the youngsters and play when fit. Matip I’d get rid of as well but don’t think we would sell Gomez and Matip.
Unfortunately we don’t have any squad players L that we can sell for 30/ 40 mil to boost the transfer funds. Maybe Fabinho.
I would get rid of as many as we can to bring in players to challenge the first team and then use youngsters in cup comps.


22.) 20 Jun 2023 18:29:49
Brummyred there would be no young players for Thiago to teach after your culling ?.


23.) 20 Jun 2023 18:48:02
Yeah that's fair Skezza, can see why you'd rather move Trent. He looks promising in midfield areas the last 10-12 games for club and country.

I do think it would be one or the other though. I'm turn which way I'd go with it. I like the inverted right back system a lot but then it is very early days of utilising it.


24.) 20 Jun 2023 19:29:27
Very interesting discussion between MK and Skezza. Personally I would move Trent full time to Midfield. It’s not I don’t like 3 at the back nor is it that I’m overly bothered about a needlessly complex system. No my only concern is that out of possession we still have the problem of Trent playing in the defensive line at RB. He’s not a top tier defender, never was, never will be so he shouldn’t be there if we want to return to being a top tier team. The decline of our midfield hd highlighted the amount of cover and support he had in the years where we won everything in that position, hiding his weaknesses somewhat but the cat is out of the bag and he shouldn’t stay there. He can be quality in the centre and there’s no reason we can’t find a right sided Robertson who can be just as effective going forward and defensively sound as well.


25.) 21 Jun 2023 02:18:25
the problem we seem to have is that people assess elliot, Jones and Bajcetic as if they are starters. and then the same people talk about signing 2 or 3 midfielders who need to be starters.

well when we have Henderson, Fabinho, Thiago and Mac Allister, it really doesn't make sense signing another 2 or 3 midfielders. cos are they starters or squad players? we'd need to move on one or two of the senior players to make it make sense. otherwise we're just doing what we've done for years which is make the squad too big and over paid.


26.) 21 Jun 2023 07:24:58
I'd move trent into midfield because he is moving into his prime years and I think that mentally, his mindset has shifted away from taking advantage of being a make shift fullback. To capitalize on his prime years, we need him to be mentally focused and maximize his strengths. Continuing to play him at Fullback, imo, will continue to force him to focus on areas of his game that aren't his strengths and potentially cause him to lose confidence. Midfield is his future and let's just make his future now.

Thiago also gets a bad rep, where his stats in defence are at least as good as Fabinho and Henderson. People see opposition teams running past our midfield, and the lazy eye goes straight to the idea that our midfield has no legs. No, any midfield will get turned around the way we play and crucially, while our attacking third have been ineffective with the press. Thiago is fine in our team and I think would be better to keep him than try to sell him. Leaving only Henderson and Fabino as the experienced first team midfielders will be a mistake going into a season we are trying to bounce back into top 4 and challenging for trophies. New midfielders traditionally don't tear it up straight away in our team and I think some continuity is important.


27.) 21 Jun 2023 09:28:17
Faithinworks, IF we end up buying a handful of young MF's that need tutoring and easing into the side, then keeping Thiago is a good idea, although it could be argued that if Saudi money comes in, and there is a chance to claw back some of his cost, I can see that appealing to FSG.
I am all for the clear out, making way for young hungry, robust players whom Jurgen can develop over the rest of his tenure.
Being seen as a top side that nurtures and plays young players could give us the edge on teams like Dortmund when it comes to buying the JB's before they become household names.
Eventually FFP is going to have to kick in properly, and FSG are gearing things up for that.

{Ed002's Note - FSG are not "gearing up" for FFP - clubs already have to work within FFP and P&S rules.}


28.) 21 Jun 2023 11:15:40
I think this summer will be the last chance to get a decent fee for Fabinho. We should sell.


29.) 21 Jun 2023 10:48:14
Why are there two sets of rules then Ed?

{Ed002's Note - One is related to the PL.}


30.) 21 Jun 2023 14:01:28
Ed, what I meant re 2 sets of rules is one for City and Chelski, and one for everyone else.

{Ed002's Note - That is not true. Manchester City have been charged with historical breaches. Chelsea are working within FFP.}


31.) 21 Jun 2023 21:52:57
Agree on your point getting Kone as a priority signing in defensive midfield as compared to getting thuram in CM. I think signing a DM should be the most important considering the fact that both fab and hendo look past it. And besides with the emergence of Trent now in midfield. Will signing thuram be that necessary considering the fact there is enough cover for his spot.


 

 

24 Apr 2023 11:54:47
Rumours increasing that we're going for Ndicka?

Ed002, said a couple of weeks ago that we're interested but another party is pushing for a pre-contract agreement.

Are we now entering the race?

ToonRed

{Ed002's Note - Evan Ndicka (CB) His agents are pushing for a pre-contract agreement to sign for Barcelona, Arsenal or Spurs as a Free Agent in the summer. Was expected to leave last summer and was seen as an option for Newcastle and West Ham but stayed to seek a more lucrative move as a free agent. Roma had an interest in the player and have spoken with the player and informed Eintracht Frankfurt of their interest which could have led to a January transfer at a low fee but the demands of his agent (a €15M signing on fee) ended that. Arsenal are fearful of Saliba or Gabriel will leave hence their interest in him. Liverpool offer an option if they wish to upgrade Matip. Manchester City will be making a change at CB so should be considered an option. Marseille and Inter Milan have him high on their list of targets. A wildcard could be Manchester United who will look to add two CBs in the summer, but he will be down the list for them.}


1.) 24 Apr 2023 12:39:47
Ed002 is the his agent still seeking a €15m signing on fee? That's obscene. I'd hope we will walk away if that is the case. It defeats the object of a free transfer if the associated costs are that high anyway.

{Ed002's Note - Any Free Agent will involve a significant signing on fee.}


2.) 24 Apr 2023 13:12:07
Nothing in life is free, right?

Seriously though, I'd hope we only sign players that fit the way we intend to play and not because they may be out of contract or into their final year. We do not want to become Juventus or Barcelona.

If there is a clear plan for Ndicka because of his skillset then fine but if not, Bella-Kotchap, Tapsoba, Inacio and Colwill should be looked at. They are all very good on the ball.

Sounds like Silva, Gvardiol and Araujo would be financially out of the question.


3.) 24 Apr 2023 13:25:53
Thanks, Ed. €15m for an upgrade on Matip sounds pretty good to me.


4.) 24 Apr 2023 13:49:54
That's my point FPF. I'd guess the interest in him is largely circumstantial because of his contract situation. If he's going to still cost a lot we're better picking a player we would have an interest in regardless of their contract. Surely we can buy a 4th choice centre back for pretty close to €15m anyway. Maybe raid one of the Prem teams that get relegated for their best CB.

Faes - Leicester
Bella-Kotchap - Saints
Niakhate - Forest

Ndicka plays in a back 3 and although he is a talented young player, for me that means that he's only really the best option if he's considerably cheaper than other alternatives.


5.) 24 Apr 2023 13:26:51
Yeah that's understandable Ed002, but €15m is higher than the norm isn't it?

{Ed002's Note - It varies.}


6.) 24 Apr 2023 14:09:06
Ed002 with a £15m signing on fee what kind off wages would he be looking for if around £80k I think that’s great business if more closer to the £200k I’ve not seen him but play but that’s a lot more of a risk.

{Ed002's Note - I have really no interest in discussing money.}


7.) 24 Apr 2023 22:44:15
MK, Haaland's agent received 34 million for the transfer from Dortmund to ManCity. That's obscene.

I guess the new FIFA limit of 10% (on transfer value) for agent commissions should settle things down a bit. But I have no idea if this applies to free agents and signing on fees, as well.


8.) 25 Apr 2023 06:58:09
It's getting sickening ArAy. Players and agents draining the money out the game into their Swiss bank accounts whilst the owners (most of whom are actually losing money) take all the flak for being greedy.

For me the signing on fee for a free transfer should be comparable to 5% of what the transfer fee was likely to be. All players get 5% of their fee unless they handed in a written transfer request so i can see why for fairness a free agent should get a larger signing on fee. €15m though? For context that's roughly the signing bonus a player would get in a €300m transfer deal. Hence my calling it obscene.

As for agent fees, they should quite simply be payable by the players. You employ them, you pay them. The games broken and it's sleepwalking into a super league because eventually that'll be the only option to generate enough money to pay the players and agents.


 

 

01 Mar 2023 08:48:40
Any update regarding investment into LFC, Ed? Any firm interest?

ToonRed

{Ed002's Note - I keep answering this that it is priced to high.}


1.) 01 Mar 2023 10:38:52
Ok, thanks. You would have thought serious parties would just come in with an offer lower than the asking price?


2.) 01 Mar 2023 12:14:54
Toon, I'm again admittedly cynical about the whole thing, but I take the opposite view as you. I think there were/ are serious interest but FSG aren't really serious about selling. Otherwise they would not have thrown out an unrealistic price for a full sale. Again, just my opinion and I'm cynical about the whole situation.


 

 

09 Oct 2022 12:59:29
Do we still have an interested in Gakpo?

Obviously our focus should be on two new midfielders, but I think we need a backup for Mo.

In previous seasons any right wingers would have been concerned about getting in the team ahead of Mo, but ever since AFCON, it’s clear we need to do some succession planning.

ToonRed

{Ed002's Note - Liverpool opted for Diaz over Gakpo.}


1.) 09 Oct 2022 20:14:24
Mo looks shot, but he needs time to play himself back into form he carried us for 3 seasons.


2.) 09 Oct 2022 20:28:46
The only thing he's worried about now is "carrying" his wages.


3.) 09 Oct 2022 23:10:31
Carvalho? Nunez? Diaz?
think the succession planning has started.
how much time does Mo need?


4.) 09 Oct 2022 23:16:07
Mo has carried the attack for years with his goals. He deserves some slack.


5.) 10 Oct 2022 01:20:12
He deserved slack last season when everyone was making excuses for his poor second half of the season form.


6.) 10 Oct 2022 04:31:13
We were definitely interested in gakpo and enquired for him this window. He was recommended to us.
Klopp particularly decided to not pursue it.


7.) 10 Oct 2022 11:20:15
Understood, Ed. Are we looking at any right sided forwards as backup or competition for Mo?

{Ed002's Note - Kaide Gordon is seens as a very good talent and there is another young RW (Harvey?) who has been noted as well. Perhaps they could have an opportunity if needs be?}


8.) 10 Oct 2022 20:46:23
If Harvey Whasshisname is a RW, I’m a Dutchman lol.
The Suso Conundrum Part II.


9.) 11 Oct 2022 01:23:40
The slack is that megabucks new contract he signed in the summer 6Times. For that amount of money he just HAS to perform.


10.) 11 Oct 2022 08:49:32
Juicer I believe Ed002 is referring to Harvey Blair who is indeed a right winger so you are in fact a Dutchman.


 

 

 

ToonRed's banter posts with other poster's replies to ToonRed's banter posts

 

17 Aug 2023 22:54:30
Completely off topic, just want to say that the Lionesses have once again done an amazing job no matter the result on Sunday.

I think Sarina Wiegman is a fantastic manager and I would love to see her get a managerial role in the men’s game to break the glass ceiling.

Good luck Lionesses!

ToonRed

1.) 18 Aug 2023 12:36:10
Totally agree ToonRed. They have done brilliantly and it might get even better. Here’s a really hypothetical question, who would you pick from that team to play for the Liverpool Women? Don’t get all twisted and overreact, I mean it as a bit of fun. My pick would be Millie Bright, excellent centre half and captain. Who do you think?


 

 

27 Jun 2023 09:08:45
The team in charge of transfers must be credited for acquisitions (less Klopp's tapping up! ), but there is massive room for improvement for selling players to generate income.

4 senior players leaving on a free this year. Ox and Keita could have been sold last summer if they weren't priced out of a move. Now it's looking like Matip and Thiago will see out the last year of their contract and leave for nothing next summer.

Is it Klopp refusing to sell them or are we asking too much for them? Other clubs don't seem to have a problem selling players.

ToonRed

1.) 27 Jun 2023 09:51:41
All players you mention have a poor injury record so why would people take the risk of buying them when they can get them for ‘free’ at the end of their contract? Maybe there were no offers.

Also, maybe Liverpool don’t want to be seen as a club that sells at a lower rate than they value players.

Luckily it’s not my money so personally I don’t worry for one second about it, ever.


2.) 27 Jun 2023 09:57:17
Across all the different Directors of football (Edwards, Ward, now maybe Schmadtke too) and also assistant coaches (Buvac, Lijnders) this has always been an issue. The common denominator is Klopp so it feels fair to say this is an issue of his.

Under Klopp off the top of my head alone, we've lost Karius, Balotelli, Sturridge, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Lucas, Toure, Clyne, Moreno, Milner, Keita, Firmino, Lallana, Wijnaldum and Origi on free transfers. I'm not saying it's always Klopp's fault but it has been a consistent enough problem to indicate he has a flaw in this department. He needs to be more ruthless. If Thiago and Matip end up on that list next season it will only compound the sheer amount of money we've lost be clinging on to players we don't need/ want. We also got very little for Shaqiri and Lovren after holding on too long. Phillips will be a similar story too, as we should've sold him to Benfica when his stock was high.

It is a problem. I know people will come at me with the usual troll replies that this somehow equates to me thinking I'd do a better job, but that's not the case. Overall we've done really well in running the club responsibly. But there is this niggling issue with keeping players on high wages around to do virtually nothing until they eventually leave for free. It has to improve if we are to compete financially.


3.) 27 Jun 2023 10:27:17
yeah, FSG need to take a good long look at this. the people they employ to make the owners a quick buck by buying low and selling high really truly suck at their job.


4.) 27 Jun 2023 10:29:53
Gotta agree with you there, Adam.

It can only be Klopp - "just in case, they may get over their injuries" etc.

Even if we got just £10m average, there's a good £100m+ left on the table there for negligible if any minutes of play in their final seasons.


5.) 27 Jun 2023 10:32:52
Maybe the problem is that the said players on high wages know that they won’t get the same high wages at another club, so don’t want to move? Maybe the nominal fee that we would get for say Matip, wouldn’t pay for a similar level player to provide cover who doesn’t know the system, and would take time to settle? Maybe no one wanted to pay for an injury prone player like Keita?


6.) 27 Jun 2023 10:48:12
A lot of maybe's there Gold Star. Like I said, it probably isn't Klopp's choice in every case and I'm sure there are other factors too. But the bottom line is we shouldn't be losing saleable assets for free on a regular basis. Drop the price or subsidise the wages if you have to, but just move players on. I think Klopp has intentionally retained at least a third of those players I listed past the point where they justified their place in the squad. Our squad is consistently bloated and that ties up money in the wage bill. Money that could be used for transfers. I dare say Mane would be in that list too had he not thrown his toys out the Pram and asked to leave.


7.) 27 Jun 2023 12:08:59
Hopefully he has learned his lesson. By all accounts, last season was a real shock for him and his coaching team and they appeared to flounder for most of it looking for solutions.

I really hope he doesn't revert back to being all gooey-eyed with the same players when they return for pre-season.

We need to respond to some tough questions:

1. Can we rely on 4 injury-prone centrebacks?
2. Can we rely on Elliott, Curtis and Bajcetic?
3. Should we retain all 3 of Hendo, Thiago and Fabinho?
4. Does our coaching team need new voices/ ideas?


8.) 27 Jun 2023 12:23:18
did mane throw his toys? how are we defining this one?

{Ed001's Note - yes he did, he demanded the move to Bayern.}


9.) 27 Jun 2023 12:45:03
FPF, I'll take a stab at your questions (well some of them) :

1) I do think we need another CB. I would argue against VVD being injury prone, he came back of a long term injury (caused Jordan 'Leg Breaker' Pickford) but I don't recall him having a long term absence before then? I'd like to see Matip leave, mainly due to his injuries and the fact we will lose him on a free anyway, and his wages. I would be happy with VVD, Konate, Gomez +1 and then backfill from the youth set up if required.

2) Yes, I think we can rely on them. Not as our only midfielders, but we will still have at least 2 of Hendo, Thiago and Fab, plus Mac Allister and (I think) at least 1 more midfielder. In an ideal scenario, I would (sadly) wave farewell to Thiago given his injury record, welcome Thuram +1 (Veiga? ) and be left with Elliot, Bajcetic, Jones, Mac Allister, Thuram, Hendo, Fab and Veiga. Fab I would keep over Thiago as he can also cover in defence if we have a catastrophe like we had in 2020/ 21.

3) See above, I would seel Thiago if we got a decent offer.

4) Not sure I can answer that. The proof of the pudding will be in the (b) eating (s) that we can give other teams next season.

We need to harness the 9-0 and 7-0 beatings we gave last season!


10.) 27 Jun 2023 13:12:39
Liverpool have *never* been a club that wheels and deals with its first team players, and I'm going back 50 years or more here.
So I think you're unfairly critical of Klopp here, to my mind he's following a policy that's always been prevalent.
His management style is also based around inclusivity of the squad and his loyalty to his players is a central part of that approach.


11.) 27 Jun 2023 13:41:01
Nice effort, Zed.


12.) 27 Jun 2023 14:07:03
MK Scouser as someone who listens religiously to the Eds' podcasts, they have addressed this particular topic several times. I will not say that this is all down to Klopp even tho, it is clear that this is one of his blind spots where his loyalty and man managing abilities fail him. He was going to keep Milner this season had the club not put their foot down, mind you so this stuff is deep with him.

Now some of it is down to the DOF's you mentioned wanting too much for the players we need or needed to ship out earlier or giving squad players like Naby and Ox top wages in error. We all know Ox was priced out of a move a couple of years before he left. We also know that loan bids (one this Jan, btw) came for Naby and miraculously, he stayed. Heaven knows if Matip got offers that were rejected as well. That's on him and the DOF's, Im sorry

Look before the "they" come for me, I love Klopp and IMO, he is the best pound for pound manager on the planet and NO, Pep is nowhere near his level cos in a similar situation, Pep would quit in 6 months w/ o 300m to spend 200m every season BUT I got to call his schstick out when I see it.


13.) 27 Jun 2023 16:14:42
Edd001. It worked out great for mane lol. The only top player I can think of that left the club who we didn't want to leave and went on to become even better and have an extoradinary career was xabi. Would xabi have stayed Edd001 if we wanted him to stay?

{Ed001's Note - Xabi wanted to go mate, but the question is whether he would have wanted to go if he hadn't had the falling out with Rafa. He felt unwanted and that made him start looking for options, which drew the attention of Madrid.

What I don't understand is why Rafa ever thought Barry was a better option. That is bizarre. Barry was not even close to Alonso's level, even then, and Xabi improved massively after leaving to become arguably the best ever in his role. Sadly we never got to enjoy that emergence.}


14.) 27 Jun 2023 17:53:30
As Ed001 said, Mane demanded the move. However he also did that truly embarassing interview just before the Champions League final about his future, making it all about him going into the biggest game of our season. Think he said (paraphrasing from memory) something along the lines of 'i have made up my mind' and 'i'll do what the fans of Senegal want me to do'. What he should've said was "I'm focused on winning with Liverpool and I'll decide my future after the season is finished". It was an unwelcome distraction before a Champions League final. He lost all my respect doing that.

{Ed001's Note - that was part of his push to leave. And I agree, utterly ridiculous to do it then. All he needed to do was say it after the game.}


15.) 27 Jun 2023 19:26:49
Ive said it before, Ed01. Whatever beef Xabi and Rafa had be damned, I would have sacked Rafa for replacing him with the absolute clogger in Gareth Barry alone.

The only reason he got so much hype was cos he was English cos ability wise, he was bang average, imo. Not a patch on Xabi’s left index toe. Dreadful transfer business that set us back years esp with Rafa ending up replacing Xabi with the other grade A clogger in Aquilani.


16.) 27 Jun 2023 20:18:25
That team in 2009 was so close to beating Utd to the league. Two losses all season, then Rafa lost it, similarly to Houllier in 2002 with bad signings. Losing Alonso was terrible, we should have added to that team. I know he had financial restrictions but he deserved his sacking in 2010.


17.) 27 Jun 2023 20:51:32
Liverpool seem to have an issue in that when they buy players they either become a success, which of course is a good thing, and then they don't want to sell them, so keep them for their best years and maybe a little longer out of sentiment or are forced to sell them at a premium (as has been the case for most of my time as a supporter) or they aren't a success yet the club still refuse to value them as anything less than what they paid for them.
For me its been a strange policy for a club that has seen the benefits in the past of selling players and reinvesting.
A club of Liverpools size need only buy a lesser known player and make him part of the squad for a season or two and his stature and value would increase. Davies (left back from Bolton case in point) .
Anyway, interested to see how the rest of the window goes, I feel quietly optimistic we’ll see some good players signed.


18.) 27 Jun 2023 21:23:39
Most dogs have four legs, most tables have four legs, therefore most dogs are tables comes to mind. Given this thread is about syllogisms I thought I’d have a go.


19.) 28 Jun 2023 18:22:21
I think it's a bit below the belt to bring gisms into a football conversation, WDW.


 

 

05 May 2023 09:08:52
Ed001, what are your thoughts on Harvey Elliot? Where should he be playing?

He gets a lot on unnecessary stick, but I'm not sure we're getting the best out of him in a midfield three and I don't think he has the pace to be a RW .

ToonRed

{Ed001's Note - I think he would be best in the role Gakpo is now filling. But midfield is good for his development.}


1.) 05 May 2023 10:48:54
I’m very happy for Harvey to play right wing, I think he looks great there despite the lack of pace. If pace is what we need, rotate him with Doak when he is ready.

Given that Gakpo is now our starter down the middle, it does seem strange we have not tried Harvey there, as they have somewhat similar skill sets.

Maybe in time, once he has gained more experience. The big question is whether the guy we signed to play down the middle, Nunez, will ever actually play there?


2.) 05 May 2023 11:16:10
We signed Nunez knowing full well he doesn't fit the old system, then rather than adapt and play to his strengths we tried to shoehorn him into a position that doesn't work. I doubt Haaland would have scored 50 goals if he spent half his games on the wing and the other half in his own box defending corners.


3.) 05 May 2023 13:41:45
Neither Nunez or Elliot will prove good enough imo. Some of the flaws in Nunez’ game I just don’t know if you can teach. He so also very much a confidence player so don’t think he suits a rotation option but needs to be playing week in week out to get a rhythm which I don’t think he will get with us.

Elliot is too small and too slow to play for us currently and should be nothing more than a rotation player at best. Would send him out on loan to a lower prem team and see how he develops for a year or two.


4.) 06 May 2023 09:43:53
Elliot has to play centrally. If we get the 2 new midfielders in, how does Elliot fit in? He will be about 8th choice.


 

 

17 Jan 2023 22:13:03
What about playing a midfield of Fab and Bajcetic to protect back 4, with Elliot in a proper number 10 role?

ToonRed

1.) 17 Jan 2023 22:24:47
We set up that way against Brighton with Thiago right up behind the front two and Hendo and Fab protecting the back. There ended up being a massive gap between them which Brighton exploited.

My inclination is to build on tonight by using the same system since it clearly worked and the players are confident with it.

Some of the senior players should be brought back in, although I'd ensure Bajcetic and Elliot start. And I'd keep Elliot in the front three alongside Nunez and Salah, and not drop him back into midfield, cos I don't think that works for him.


2.) 17 Jan 2023 22:29:41
Yeah but I also think we are missing a trick with curtis jones in that position with the safety catch off and him attacking its what got him a good reputation coming through .


3.) 17 Jan 2023 22:34:02
We'd be asking for trouble playing less midfielders. I don't think we should get too carried away by tonight's result but the attitude was a lot better.


4.) 17 Jan 2023 22:51:50
I thought Bajcetic had a fantastic game tonight. Really positive forward passing and yes he lost the ball a couple of times but he added so much more energy to the midfield. Absolutely loved watching him. As for keita well he is pathetic it’s as simple as that.


5.) 17 Jan 2023 23:07:57
It’s a no from me mate.


6.) 18 Jan 2023 00:45:20
Yeah Mark, we know you are an advocate of the sit back and attack on the counter tactic.

Personally, I'm not a fan of that tactic since I'm not even sure if our players are suited to sitting back. We do seem shaky at the back so inviting pressure seems to be counterintuitive. We have always played our best when we bring the game to the opposition so I would like us to return to that.


7.) 18 Jan 2023 06:02:31
Since our midfield is a bit weak at the moment, why not revert to a 4 4 2 system as we cannot press with tired legs, so let's crowd the midfield for now.
Thanks
Kit.


8.) 18 Jan 2023 11:42:19
Has the Declan Rice train gone cold, not seeing his name mentioned in relation to a new midfield signing? As far as I know his contract is running down too so may not command a huge fee? @Ed any updates on this one?

{Ed001's Note - I didn't know there was a rice train. I have never heard of any interest from Liverpool in him.}


9.) 18 Jan 2023 11:44:07
Mark, the sit-back and absorb pressure tactic is a myth cos we have NEVER played that way and that is what NOT what got us the success we got.

We are already trying to get away from a wretched tactic that does NOT suit our players cos and you want us to employ another tactic (worse, IMO) that still does not suit the players we have cos they have NEVER played in that system under Klopp? Give your head a wobble, mate.


 

 

29 Oct 2022 22:21:54
First time to Anfield this season, up in the gods in the Upper Main.

We did enough to win the game, but were wasteful in possession. A better team would have torn us apart, but we could have easily won that game.

Apart from the lack of atmosphere and number of fans leaving at 88 mins, what shocked me the most was how Trent and Robbo more often than not checked back instead of bombing forward and sending in a cross like we’re used to seeing.

Clearly confidence is low, but for both to stop doing what they’re best that must be tactical? I don’t think either of them have an assist this season - speaks volumes.

Ed001 if you’re about would be interested to hear your thoughts on tactics we’re employing.

ToonRed

1.) 29 Oct 2022 23:10:33
Just realised that Robbo got the assist tonight ?‍♂️.


2.) 29 Oct 2022 23:10:53
The atmosphere seemed poor. Robbo got an assist and thought he was one of our better players. I do agree that the fb’s are not going forward as much though. Even after beating City our confidence hasn’t improved that is a massive worry.


3.) 29 Oct 2022 23:10:55
We didn’t do enough to win the game. We gifted them two soft goals, didn’t really create many clear chances and our midfield was non existent. We literally got what we deserved in rich meaty chunks.

The reason the full backs checked back was entirely due to the non existent midfield.


4.) 29 Oct 2022 23:54:30
VVVV see’s the real game. It’s all the midfield. We’re trying to protect it by playing this way, I can see the “idea” shielding the midfield by not pressing, not using the flanks, long ball over the top missing out the weak part of the team. But it’s not working Isit.
Like I’ve said before, it seems the whole pre season was used to integrate Nunez into the side, and play without a midfield.
We didn’t find this solution then, and we still haven’t now.
We must get 2 top top class midfielders into this team, quickly! Because if we don’t get champions league we’re fuched
SPEND!


5.) 30 Oct 2022 04:46:06
ToonRed - Robbo has 4 assists so far this season if I'm remembering right.

2 in the PL + 2 in the CL. So actually not too bad. I just wish the whole team would show the same kind of effort he did. I thought he had a decent game.


6.) 30 Oct 2022 05:14:48
I've never been to Anfield but have often been told that they turn the mics up for the away fans on TV. If the away fans are singing "your support is f***ing sh*it" then perhaps they need to turn the mics up for the home supporters in the stadium . lol.


7.) 30 Oct 2022 07:04:45
Markp and KBL I agree robbo was one of our better players and had a few good runs. But we have changed tactics for our full backs, whether that’s confidence or to make up for our our degrading midfield I don't know . Fabinho is having a shocker this season, hopefully he can get back form after the World Cup. I think then the other midfield 2, Thiago just gets injured too regularly unfortunately and Elliot (although excellent) is not quite aware of defensive positioning just yet so the compactness is gone. Our front 3 don’t press with the same intensity, whether that’s intentional I don’t know, but we seem to be giving defence and midfield or other team loads of time on the ball and inviting pressure on our now confidence shot back 4.


8.) 30 Oct 2022 07:12:52
Faith, I get that as well over here when I watch games. Not sure why they do this.

Back to the game, I felt Leeds deserved the win. They played better overall, pressed us high, knew what our problems where and pounced on near every mistake we made. There were a couple a period in the gale where we were chasing shadows and couldn’t cope with their speed in transition and movement. We had chances BUT not one of those dud I think a good GK wouldn’t deal with, imo. Pressing? We don’t even do that anymore cos we’ll, we can’t. Now, we are more susceptible to the press. See Brighton gale as well.

Well, we are in deep trouble now and I have NO idea where we go from here cos we have issues up and down the shop. 28 chances created against after we turn over the ball? Yeah, with NO press, you have no chance so yep, it’s bad.


9.) 30 Oct 2022 08:08:03
The truth is parts of the Anfield crowd are very quiet. On CL nights or of seasons past you’ve had 100% of the crowd singing and chanting during games. These days it’s probably around a third. The only time 100% of the LFC crowd joins in is during YNWA at the start and celebrating a goal.

Away fans are chanting and singing from min 1-90.

Klopp and players have said in the past they want the crowd to create more of an atmosphere.

It is nothing to do with microphones or tv.


10.) 30 Oct 2022 08:32:52
The Man City atmosphere was quality but yesterday it was like a library in the home end. For normal matches we are worse than most clubs.


11.) 30 Oct 2022 09:12:17
Gotta agree with that, Mark but that said, the fans haven’t been given that much to cheer of about of late so there’s that.


 

 

 

ToonRed's rumour replies

 

Click To View This Thread

24 Apr 2023 13:25:53
Thanks, Ed. €15m for an upgrade on Matip sounds pretty good to me.

ToonRed

 

 

Click To View This Thread

07 Mar 2023 12:31:27
Unless i'm mistaken, both owners of Liverpool and Utd have set very high prices for their respective clubs.

What i don'd understand, is why have Utd at least had offers below asking and we've had none?

Is it a case of, whoever misses out of Utd will then turn their attention to Liverpool?

ToonRed

 

 

Click To View This Thread

01 Mar 2023 10:38:52
Ok, thanks. You would have thought serious parties would just come in with an offer lower than the asking price?

ToonRed

 

 

Click To View This Thread

28 Dec 2022 09:45:31
Considering we’re searching for DMs and the likes of Caicedo and Enzo are on the list with their price tag, I’m surprised we’re not considering Rice.

Ticks every box and some IMO, with only a relatively short amount of time left on his contract.

ToonRed

{Ed002's Note - I don't see Rice moving to Liverpool.}


 

 

Click To View This Thread

10 Oct 2022 11:20:15
Understood, Ed. Are we looking at any right sided forwards as backup or competition for Mo?

ToonRed

{Ed002's Note - Kaide Gordon is seens as a very good talent and there is another young RW (Harvey?) who has been noted as well. Perhaps they could have an opportunity if needs be?}


 

 

 

ToonRed's banter replies

 

Click To View This Thread

01 Nov 2022 07:27:08
Ed001, surely Klopp sees that Pep’s system isn’t working and we have to revert back to high intensity?

ToonRed

{Ed001's Note - it is difficult to see it that way when everyone has been telling you for years that the high intensity is the problem.}


 

 

Click To View This Thread

29 Oct 2022 23:10:33
Just realised that Robbo got the assist tonight ?‍♂️.

ToonRed

 

 

Click To View This Thread

02 Oct 2022 11:37:28
Thanks, Ed. I agree that we did enough to win the game and we absolutely should have gone for a 4th, but we do need to get back to basics on defending.

Great to see Bobby getting on the scoresheet again.

ToonRed

 

 

Click To View This Thread

16 Sep 2022 07:35:32
Both.

ToonRed

 

 

Click To View This Thread

23 Aug 2022 14:30:29
Very good post, Shappy.

I agree, Bobby, Hendo, Thiago and Milner are past their prime, whilst Keita and Ox are too injury prone. Fab is arguably still in his prime but needs can't play all 50 games a year.

We have very good young attacking midfielders players in Elliott, Carvalho and Jones, who Klopp does trust, although i'd like to see Carvalho start against Bournemouth.

Ultimately we need a younger version of Hendo. A proper number 8, who can contribute to the defensive responsibilities and so Trent isn't exposed, as well as an understudy for Fab, who can then have a break every now and then.

ToonRed

 

 





Change Consent