27 Feb 2023 12:18:52
Does anyone know why we haven't given Ox a try at centre mid this season? Fully aware he's off in the summer, but so is Keita. Im also fully aware of his limitations and the fact he's not the player he was 5 years ago. But he's clearly fit enough to be shoehorned into a wide position. At least he has a bit of pace and energy about him, surely worth a game at least. Anything but Milner and/ or Henderson.

1.) 27 Feb 2023
27 Feb 2023 12:37:45
I guess he's demonstrated over the last few seasons that he is a rhythm player and needs 4/ 5 successive before he can get into games - especially so in midfield. I suspect he's probably bottom of the list of Klopp's midfield options right now.

Frustrating as this has been known for the last two years and yet he's still here.

2.) 27 Feb 2023
27 Feb 2023 12:41:29
I feel the same about Jones. Surely, he can't be in worse form.

3.) 27 Feb 2023
27 Feb 2023 12:47:01
Because Ox has been terrible for years. Yes, he's worse than both Henderson and Milner.

4.) 27 Feb 2023
27 Feb 2023 13:28:44
4 of our squad midfielders you could argue are not actually specialist midfielders for our 3 man system. Ox, Elliot, Carvalho and Jones. They’re all probably more suited to a wide forward role or maybe a number No 10 at this moment in time.

That’s not saying they won’t in the future but them not getting minutes in a midfield 3 probably doesn’t help. Only Elliot has been given a shot there this season.

5.) 27 Feb 2023
27 Feb 2023 13:38:48
JK - you’re right. And that just makes things seem all the more strange.

6.) 27 Feb 2023
27 Feb 2023 13:42:11
JK23. Fully agree mate. I think Carvalho can be something special given time. His favoured role though or the role he was being played at Fulham and doing well in was the false 9/ 10 role not midfield.

7.) 27 Feb 2023
27 Feb 2023 14:03:17
Ox is gone in the summer why bother playing him like Keita! I’d rather Jones Elliot baj or Doak playing.

8.) 27 Feb 2023
27 Feb 2023 15:32:24
I fully agree, Jay Dub esp. with Keita who doesn't even boter to even try anymore. Might as well give the kids a go cos at least THEY want to be here and make a name for themselves.

9.) 27 Feb 2023
27 Feb 2023 16:01:00
A midfield with any one of Henderson, Keita, and Milner is sheer stupidity. Playing all three together is plain insanity.

10.) 27 Feb 2023
27 Feb 2023 17:29:05
It shows how bad they all actually are. If they can’t get into this Liverpool midfield, which is easily the worst midfield we’ve had in the last 50+ years, that shows the level they’re at. I honestly believe it would’ve been better had we started Bajcetic, Elliot and Carvalho every game. At least by now they’d have improved massively individually and collectively.
Henderson Milner Fabinho Thiago Keita. They’re all on the decline getting worse and worse.

11.) 27 Feb 2023
27 Feb 2023 17:41:26
Bajcetic, Elliott and Carvalho? ?
They'd have been lambs to the slaughter.

12.) 27 Feb 2023
27 Feb 2023 18:33:06
I don't think Henderson can be lumped in with those players. Henderson still has a lot left to give, he just needs to play way, way less than he does currently. He needs to move into the Milner role, and Milner either needs to become a coach or leave the club.

Fergie kept Scholes and Giggs round in a similar capacity, to play a handful of games a year, but Scholes and Giggs had some of the best technical ability in world football. Milner does not have that. His best attributes were his energy and adaptability, and his ageing body means he cannot provide that anymore. Giving him a new contract would reek of mawkish sentimentality and would prove that Klopp hasn't learned anything from this season.

Similarly, I also believe that Thiago has a lot left to give. He is a very special player who so often finds himself playing in set ups that don't suit him. His ability is a very rare thing and despite his injury record, I don't think we can let that quality or experience go. He hasn't declined, and I don't think much can be blamed on him. He's also far better at pressing and defending than people give him credit for, and I love his tenacity even when it comes across as rash. He is injury prone, but it is impossible to pass judgement on which players are actually fragile because the medical side of the management has clearly gone to pot.

Ox and Keita need to go, speaks for itself. Any suggestion we should be playing Ox in midfield is reactionary in the extreme. Milner, as mentioned before. Fabinho, as his decline has been catastrophic with virtually no bright spots in at least a year. Also might fetch a decent fee. Jones I am undecided on, he hasn't kicked on but he has legs and it doesn't seem essential to move him on in what will be a summer of change (I hope) . I refuse to believe he is any worse than the aforementioned players.

Then all you're left with is Henderson, Thiago, Bajcetic, Elliott, Jones (maybe), plus whoever we bring in. That doesn't make for good reading, and that's acting on the assumption that Klopp will actually execute the changes that are desperately needed. I doubt whether he has the capacity to be that ruthless, as his continued selection of Keita would indicate not. He seems unrecognisable from the man who exiled Sakho in the middle of a pre season tour.

13.) 27 Feb 2023
27 Feb 2023 19:05:38
Anonymous Woolback. Really good post. Agree with all of it apart from Jones. We need to raise some funds and he could bring in a decent fee. Also well articulated on Thiago and the pending summer situation. Thaigo is class but playing in the complete wrong set up and it’s showing. Imagine how effective he would be alongside a defensive midfielder like Caicedo who is defensively sound, tenacious and importantly mobile. Klopp is 100% the man to lead us next season but I do share the same concerns as you, hence why a DOF and one that is firm needs to be installed as soon as possible. That would prevent any loyalty to players that should be moved on.

14.) 27 Feb 2023
27 Feb 2023 19:11:41
Lambs to the slaughter would be better than this.
Silence of the lambs is better than this.
Hannibal Lector, Agent Starling and that mad weird hillbilly with the Moths is better than this midfield.

15.) 27 Feb 2023
27 Feb 2023 19:21:32
Anonymous Woolback, on Klopp's ruthlessness, he seems to be a lot more ruthless with players who aren't "his" players. He similarly had a cull of players when he started at Dortmund.

16.) 27 Feb 2023
27 Feb 2023 19:39:47
I agree Babbity, and I think that's a great cause for concern. It feels as though he has lost all capacity to be objective and rational about his squad. That is even more dangerous when you're in the position that we are, unable to spend as much as other clubs and relying on generating our own funds. We can't generate funds if he refuses to get rid of people because he likes them. City don't have to rely on sales and yet Guardiola is more than happy to sell players when the time is right.

It doesn't just apply to transfers, but also team selection. How many times over the years have we lamented his refusal to swap out under performing players for squad players every once in a while. We played with Fabinho at centre back for half a season because of this. Trusting Keita more than Jones cannot come from a place of objectivity or fairness.

Completely agree with your point on the DOF Alonso. If we get one, it could prove a real game changer. A second opinion is always important, checks and balances being put in place is essential to maintaining a healthy operation.

For an intelligent and politically left wing man like Klopp, this sudden lurch towards autocracy on the transfer front is very unusual. It was all working so well, but it seems as though figures at the club have left because their jurisdiction was being impeded upon. We wouldn't have signed Salah if we did not operate in this way, so why we felt the need to change is beyond me. Cooperation and team ethic is key.

17.) 27 Feb 2023
27 Feb 2023 20:17:07
What’s the “Milner role” he plays over 30 game a season. Henderson shouldn’t be cracking double figures from next season on but Klopp gave him 200k a week until 2025 i genuinely think that’s the worst contract handed out in premier league history if not it’ll be hard to beat.

18.) 27 Feb 2023
27 Feb 2023 20:34:57
There's some very short memories on here if you cannot recall Everton 0-0 Liverpool at Goodison, with a starting midfield containing both Elliott and Carvalho.
Neither got a kick and were bullied out of the game, with both deservedly hooked.
We're stuck with what we have until the Summer and, even then, a major rebuild will probably take another 2 or 3 transfer windows on top of that.
In fact, thinking about it, the remaining 3 years of Klopp's tenure will be a matter of gradual renewal.
It's not going to get done in the snap of the fingers, so you'd better get used to that imo.

19.) 27 Feb 2023
27 Feb 2023 20:38:12
All this crap of him ( jurgen) being to loyal maybe that’s the way he manages? The argument that other managers add to the squad every season to freshen it up is valid ( and I was brought up on that way of running club) but in the time he has been here a quick google says we have won 6 trophies lost 6 finals not to mention the times we lost the league on the last day his team used the fewest games to reach 300,400 and 500 points fewer than any manager in the clubs history. He averages 2.08 goals a game, more than any Liverpool manager in last 126 years. As much as this season is getting us all down a bit of perspective is needed. It’s crap we know, but it’s the only season that hasn’t been exciting ( so far) realistically we could be sitting here having won 11 trophies and 3-4 league titles. It’s been that close. If he wants to stay and build a team to last 6-7 years and be as exciting as this one has then he has my support. You can argue and pull faces as much as you want his method has been a success shame he’s never had better quality squad players because point 2 would be a reality.

20.) 27 Feb 2023
27 Feb 2023 20:48:58
Henderson played 57 games last season, the most of any outfield player (I think) . When we played during C.V., with empty stadiums, you couldn't help but be impressed with him shouting instructions and encouragement to the players. I still think he is an important player and captain for us and a role model for the youngsters and I hope he (and Milner and Thiago), help us through this transition to a younger squad.

21.) 27 Feb 2023
27 Feb 2023 21:18:04
Correct, Juicer.
I remember seeing Elliott and Carvalho in midfield and feeling nervous about them. I'd have been even more nervous had Bajcetic been in there with them.
I can't see how anyone would want Elliott and Carvalho in before Henderson and Milner. It's boys against men.

22.) 27 Feb 2023
27 Feb 2023 21:53:34
If he wants to be a role model or a coach he can do that but he shouldn't be on 200k a week to do that, He shouldn't be getting on the the pitch much we can't be carrying passengers to win the title.

23.) 27 Feb 2023
27 Feb 2023 22:25:07
Some good posts with lots of good views and no-one bitchi*g and moaning, just well informed opinions.
I actually flip flop between cab/ baj/ Elliot - nothing to lose attitude and millie/ fabs/ hendo -stable solid and hopefully fabs and hendo will play back into form. I think we all agree keita and ox should go. Jones is open for debate and Tiago is an exceptional talent we
Shouldn’t over use.
LFC8 - buffalo bill I think is the name you’re looking for. If you’re looking for a liverpool likeness maybe Steve Staunton when he signed? Anyone have any better suggestions?

24.) 27 Feb 2023
27 Feb 2023 22:33:42
Henderson isn't deciding how much he earns, how often he plays or whether he is a coach or role model though.

25.) 28 Feb 2023
28 Feb 2023 00:16:08
You really only need to see Hendo’s attempted/ successful duel stats to arrive at the right conclusion. It’s not as he’s assisting or scoring either. He can shout all he likes at his teammates. There’s only so much that can achieve for the team.

26.) 28 Feb 2023
28 Feb 2023 00:19:34
Yea i’ve no issue with Henderson he’s a club legend but the lad is a beyond awful player these days i just think the contract was a straight up stupid decision should have taken 15/ 20m and ran rather than extending on those wages. Klopps biggest mistake, keeping him a regular would be another.

27.) 28 Feb 2023
28 Feb 2023 09:29:14
Who was up for selling Henderson in the summer? Come on, hands up.

He has been poor this season but would Elliott and Carvalho have been any better? It's easy to say yes with nothing to back this up but they are not even midfielders or physical enough to cut it.
Bajcetic has shown promise but he's not done enough to show he's better than Henderson and, again, he's still a kid.

It's interesting to read others' opinions but you can't compare what Klopp has actually done to what you would have done. There is no evidence to support that your selections would be any better than one of the best managers in the world. None.
One of the things I see a lot now is 'but things couldn't be any worse'. They could; they could be a lot worse. They would be if we were playing Elliott, Carvalho and Bajcetic in a midfield three. And we are above a lot of those midtable teams that are apparently outspending us.

28.) 28 Feb 2023
28 Feb 2023 09:45:22
We need Eriksen and Weghorse they’ll fix it.
This is the worst it’s ever been, worst midfield we’ve ever seen in all our lifetimes. Stop trying to justify it, at least the kids would play for the badge.
Bajcetic alone has put more effort in these last 2 months than the rest combined. It wouldn’t be any worse than this championship midfield that you lot didn’t want to improve in summer.

29.) 28 Feb 2023
28 Feb 2023 10:00:17
From memory Not one poster moaned when Hendo signed his new deal. Same as Gomez. If anything at the start of the season there was lots of support for Gomez to be our first choice centre back.

I didn’t see this season coming and as much as I would have loved to have seen us sign a creative midfielder i wasn’t overly fussed when we didn’t because I assumed this squad would be challenging again.

But quite a few posters did say we wouldn’t and the midfield wasn’t good enough. If I remember rightly those posters were ridiculed.

30.) 28 Feb 2023
28 Feb 2023 10:17:32
United needed Eriksen and Weghorst, LFC8. They have helped them win a trophy, they are in the top four and how much did they cost?

Stop being so dramatic, LFC8 ?.
Did you want all the midfield replaced in the summer? Did you even want Henderson gone?
I'm not justifying anything. We are rubbish but we can't go back to the summer to change it and we can't change it now. Well, we could if Klopp would listen to you and play three unproven kids in midfield. Or maybe we go back in time to August to sign Caceido.
It's not going to happen though so you won't be able to justify your midfield.
Sorry, lad.

31.) 28 Feb 2023
28 Feb 2023 12:01:56
Midfield needs a huge overhaul as it’s been neglected for years. There is a reasonable argument to be made that all bar Bajcetic should be moved on, taking all sentiment out of it and being as cold as possible.

Thiago is too injury prone and in the last throes of his career, as great a player he is, it’s time to move on.

Milner should be moved on as he really doesn’t have the pace or dynamism any more. Same goes for Henderson.

Fabinho is on the downward spiral in his career and should be sold whilst he retains any value.

Ox and Keita should have been moved on at least two years ago as they’re neither consistent enough or durable.

Curtis Jones really isn’t not a premier league quality centre midfielder.

That really only leaves Bajcetic as the one to retain. A lot of money needs to be spent getting this right and it’ll take a lot more than just signing Bellingham to fix this mess, do FSG have the money and willingness to do that? Personally I don’t think they do and we’ll probably be having these conversations again next season in all likelihood. They’re already briefing the press that the budget will be affected by no champions league football so make it what you want.

32.) 28 Feb 2023
28 Feb 2023 12:18:19
I asked you to stop copying Ed001 so much and your first comment was Weghorse and Eriksen have changed United around ?
I’ve changed my mind, go back to copying him.

33.) 28 Feb 2023
28 Feb 2023 12:48:58
The team is so bad atm. Truly terrible yet the 3 youngsters mentioned above can’t get game time. They can barely get 5 minutes at the end and struggle to even make the bench. I don’t understand how they aren’t at least getting a chance. If Jones can’t get game time now I seriously doubt he ever will, at Liverpool. I agree with the above comments, they can’t be any worse but also under no circumstances should 3 kids play together in midfield at the same time.

34.) 28 Feb 2023
28 Feb 2023 14:01:43
I never said Eriksen and Weghorst 'have changed United around', LFC8; you're telling lies. You don't need to make things up if you don't know what to say.
United look more of a team with them in rather than the Pogba and Ronaldo (second spell) ones, wouldn't you agree?

Istvan Kozma, Igor Biscan, Christian Poulsen, Salif Diao, Bruno Cheyrou, Anthony Le Tallec, Charlie Adam are just some midfielders that I've seen that I wouldn't want in our current team.
Saying that, there might be room for one of them if we play the three lightweight kids that you want to throw to the lions ?.

35.) 28 Feb 2023
28 Feb 2023 14:25:49
Anyone who knows anything about it about football can see Henderson’s legs have gone. He shuffles about the pitch like an old man, with no tempo, no intensity, no closing down, no forward runs, slow to get the ball out of his feet and move it on, always passing square or to the back 4, unless an opponent is within 2 yards of him and he humps it aimlessly upfield. I can live with him as a squad player but, if we want to challenge for trophies, his days as a starter have gone.

36.) 28 Feb 2023
28 Feb 2023 14:53:24
Who was it that famously said "you'll never win anything with kids"?

That came back to bite him hard!

37.) 28 Feb 2023
28 Feb 2023 15:46:29
They were different kids, KBL.
Was it Scholes, Beckham, Butt and Neville? I'm certain they'd all get game time for us this season.
And didn't they have the likes of Keane to help them?

38.) 28 Feb 2023
28 Feb 2023 17:21:08
LFC08, I actually thought Rigsby was having a laugh when he said what he said. As for calling people who disagree with you as copy cats of Ed01, is quite childish and petty, don't you think?