20 Aug 2015 11:33:21
I'll try and post again.

Here are my thoughts on why certain players should be picked.

At present I see different perspectives on certain players being "good" or "awful" in their respective positions.

For me, it is not just about a player in a position, but how they are suited to fit into the overall system, and pattern of play.

take the example of Lallana or Ibe out wide.
Some are saying that Lallana can replay there and Ibe should as he has bags of pace. Agreed on the bags of pace bit but, dependent on how we play, this could be ineffective.
If we have a slow build up and lots of possession, then this allows opposition to get behind the ball and deny space in behind them - thus negating one of Ibe major positives as there is a lack of space for him to exploit.

Given this scenario, Lallana who is more suited to receiving ball in tight spaces (IMO) would be a better option than a true "out and out" winger.

The same can be applied to our centre halves. If we drop deep and defend our own box then Skrtel and Lovren who lack pace but attack the ball well are best pairing, if we played a high press than as both have a certain lack of pace Sakho would be a good option.

It is easy to state that this layer is better etc but each player has to fit into a "system" and cannot simply be dropped into another way of playing and expect to perform to the same standards as each player has different attributes.

A holistic view of how we set up and how we play needs to be taken - ideally you'd buy players that fit into the way you want to play.

thx for reading, hope generates some debate.

AggerDo

{Ed001's Note - sorry but you seem to have missed the fact that the player we have, in terms of attacking the ball, is Sakho. He very rarely gets beaten by a forward, unlike Lovren and Skrtel, who are often selling themselves trying to win a ball and being embarrassed by the forward or just because they miss it completely.}

1.) 20 Aug 2015
20 Aug 2015 13:02:10
Agger do

And who said we have a slow build up play? We had lots of possession last season only for BR to recieve truck load of absuses in this page.

2.) 20 Aug 2015
20 Aug 2015 13:05:02
This is for the stat lovers out there, Sakho had something like a 92% pass completion record last season but apparently is crap on the ball. Just saying

3.) 20 Aug 2015
20 Aug 2015 13:53:26
Br is not silly he sees lovren and skrtel as our best and I agree neither need a couple of touches to control the ball and panic in possession and pass as quickly as possible stats can be very deceiving, look at the stats who had most blocks most headed clearances most interceptions skrtel was second in premier

{Ed001's Note - you really are bizarre, Skrtel and Lovren are both far worse and less composed on the ball than Sakho.}

4.) 20 Aug 2015
20 Aug 2015 14:13:02
Ed001 - I haven't missed the fact

what I have said, or tried to say, is that Lovren and Skrtel get beaten playing higher up the pitch whereas both are more suited to playing in and around their own box, in a tight, compact formation.

I have also stated in numerous pervious posts, despite others giving him considerable stick, Sakho is by far the most complete passer out of our CBs and is about the only one who can pass through the middle third and find a forward.

{Ed001's Note - but you just said those two were better at attacking the ball, which is completely untrue.}

5.) 20 Aug 2015
20 Aug 2015 14:23:39
As an addition to the debate, stats from last season, based on %s and not totals are:

Sakho - Aerial duels won 48%, duels won 58%
Skrtel - Aerial duels won 70%, duels won 65%
Lovern - Aerial duels won 79%, duels won 66%

out of the 3 Sakho has lowest tackles won %, Lovern has lowest passing accuracy percentage

{Ed001's Note - if you are just going to pull up stats it is pointless. Stats showed that Enrique wins more a higher percentage of tackles etc than anyone, but they fail to point out that he is usually missing. It is the same with Skrtel and Lovren, they are so far apart that their aerial challenges won are usually against little wide players where they are dragged out of position. Skrtel gets bullied off the ball every time we play any big forward, such as Benteke, who used to embarrass us each time we faced Villa. Stats have no context, attacking the ball means they are going forward into a challenge, not dropping off deep and making last ditch ones. Sakho is the one that tries to hold a line and attack the ball, Skrtel drops off and only sometimes rushes out to challenge, Lovren usually backs off then suddenly makes a mad lunge for the ball. Neither of the latter two are regularly attacking the ball, so you are still not making a case just putting up meaningless out of context stats. This is why I hate them, they are twisted so much.}

6.) 20 Aug 2015
20 Aug 2015 14:31:43
I totally agree . sakho is better at one on ones maybe but lovern and skrtel are better with the ball . sakho looks awkward , seems to panic when in a tight spot, and sometimes tries back heels or flicks to get him outa trouble which can be seriously dangerous so close to goal and as for his pass completion record. its easy when u not under pressure to pass side to side ,back to the keeper , or simple into midfield. that can make your pass stats look good.

{Ed001's Note - so you say Sakho doesn't play easy passes, then try and claim that easy passes inflate his stats. Odd.}

7.) 20 Aug 2015
20 Aug 2015 14:35:32
not looking at the stats from last season.

8.) 20 Aug 2015
20 Aug 2015 15:21:14
Migs has had more clean sheets this calendar year than any other goalkeeper in the Prem. Doesn't mean he is the best keeper. Stats should be used as a rough aid when analysing the wider issue. Plus, you should state where you got the info from rather than just pepper a load of number and percentages around

9.) 20 Aug 2015
20 Aug 2015 15:57:32
don't believe I "just pulled up stats"

I added it to the points I was trying to make.

10.) 20 Aug 2015
20 Aug 2015 17:58:00
The thing with sakho is, he is pretty consistent for one mistake a game, unfortunately they often seem to lead to a chance for the opposition. Lovren and skrtel definitely make more mistakes, like ed1 said, lovrens diving in for the ball is embarrassing but also like you said it's generally in wider areas so the full back can cover, or to be fair sometimes Lovren redeems himself and gets a block in, maybe Rodgers looks at mistakes that directly lead to chances. I have no idea what the numbers are so this is just a theory but the only rational reason I can really think of that sakho wouldn't get in the team.