24 Aug 2016 09:15:00
Hi Eds

It has been very disappointing that we haven't resolved our left back issues. Will you be able to give a wrap up of what is in the pipelines regarding out goings and possible "incomings"? which i doubt there will be any

What we know thus far
Alberto to Fenerbache
Illori to Galatasary.

{Ed002's Note - Balotelli will leave as well. Markovic will leave if a buyer can be found. There is no buyer for Sakho, so a loan seems likely.}

1.) 24 Aug 2016
24 Aug 2016 09:25:21
Moby I think our incomings are done mate tbh.

2.) 24 Aug 2016
24 Aug 2016 09:53:26
i agree Lfc forever, was hoping otherwise though. I do feel sorry for milner. you could see last night he played tentatively when going down the left and final balls lacked quality. his bright moments came when he switched to the right. Hope Klopp has another plan use an academy lb perhaps?

3.) 24 Aug 2016
24 Aug 2016 10:38:08
Should we not be in for Joe Hart? Granted, he may have to lower his wage demands.

{Ed001's Note - why? We brought in 2 keepers and Hart is not very good. Why on earth would anyone want him?}

4.) 24 Aug 2016
24 Aug 2016 10:59:01
What's this obsession with Hart?

5.) 24 Aug 2016
24 Aug 2016 11:35:59
I think joe Hart would have been an excellent addition to our squad if we didn't buy karius. I haven't seen much of karius but I don't think it right to buy a keeper and stunt his potential development by not playing him much. For that reason I wouldn't buy Hart but if we could have bought Hart at the beginning of the window then I would have went for him if an acceptable package could have been agreed. he very vocal, a leader within the dressing room who has been a number one for 10 years so would know all about the pressures of being in the spotlight all the time. I actually think he a major upgrade on mignolet aswel in all aspects of his game. as things turn out tho we have karius so we should get behind him once he back from injury. who knows he might be an absolute beast?

6.) 24 Aug 2016
24 Aug 2016 12:01:51
Sorry Kjmainstreet, but Hart is terrible i wouldn't have bought him even if we didn't buy karius, I would of kept Ward. why do the english media make so much of english players? Overhyped in my opinion, that's the problem with english national team overhyped by the media and continually dissapoints. Echo does the same with liverpool.

7.) 24 Aug 2016
24 Aug 2016 12:27:16
I don't think signing karius is a 'mistake' or anything I jus think our league is a difficult one to get used to and Hart has been a number one at a massive club playing for many years as first choice. he has had adversities throughout his time at city and has come through them. he has the right mentality to succeed and be a winner. as I said in my above post I hope karius proves to be as good as some of the German keepers in recent history. I just think In my opinion that we would b buying a ready made winner in Hart who would have been an upgrade on mignolet. as for ward I think a years loan at a championship/ lower prem team is best. unless klopp made him his number one this season because he needs to be playing regular football.

{Ed001's Note - Hart has been number one purely because he is English and they want an English core. 4 managers have been there and not wanted him, surely that should tell you something? All of them didn't think he was good enough but struggled to recruit a replacement, until now. Hart is just not very good. He has done nothing in his career other than been behind a good team so he never had anything to do.}

8.) 24 Aug 2016
24 Aug 2016 13:00:27
Hart is rubbish and we have karius anyway.

Also think we are crazy going into the season with milner as our LB.

9.) 24 Aug 2016
24 Aug 2016 13:36:37
I take on board what you are saying ed001, and I normally agree with most things you say but regardless of fees or who we have bought do you think Hart is an upgrade on mignolet? I agree with what a lot of people say he is English so the players get hyped up and made to be better than what the actualy are and I agree Hart falls into that category but I still think he a good keeper. he seems to me to be a vocal keeper who is respected by his fellow peers, I respect everyone's opinion on this matter and ov course if it was as easy as everyone agreeing we wouldn't have football forums. hope we can agree to maybe disagree on this one ed001?

{Ed001's Note - what difference does it make if he is an upgrade on our back up keeper? The question is whether or not he is better than Karius. Sorry but peers respecting him? What does that even mean? That his fellow pros aren't slagging him off? When do you ever hear a current player slag off another current player publicly? Try watching Hart flap and throw the ball into the back of his net repeatedly, then you will see he is the English Mignolet, crap with the ball at his feet, unable to organise a defence and not much of a shotstopper.}

10.) 24 Aug 2016
24 Aug 2016 13:57:09
I cannot understand some people's obsession with Hart. Karius will be no 1 when fit Klopp bought him for a reason to suit the way his teams play.

11.) 24 Aug 2016
24 Aug 2016 13:59:27
Ed001 I agree about Hart, and I was wondering from what you've seen on Karius how highly you rate him? I'm looking forward to his return!

{Ed001's Note - not seen him play, but he can't be worse than Hart or Mignolet playing with a broken hand!}

12.) 24 Aug 2016
24 Aug 2016 14:25:27
What! Mignolet hasn't had both broken ankles for the whole of last season, that's news to me! i thought his falling over all the time was due to serious long term injuries ;) as for Joe he's decent at best would put him in the same bracket as Forster and let's say butland for english keepers.

13.) 24 Aug 2016
24 Aug 2016 12:12:31
We should definitely buy Joe Hart.

14.) 24 Aug 2016
24 Aug 2016 16:17:38
I like Joe Hart. But i like him in the same way I like Djimi Traore or Emile Heskey. He tries hard and is very passionate, but that doesn't make him a good player. A leader? Yeah I can see that to be fair. He doesn't tolerate slackers. In terms of actual ability though, he has only gotten worse over the last 5 years, and he wasn't all that special to begin with.

Better than Mignolet, but that is like saying Danny Rose is a good left back because he is better than Moreno!

15.) 24 Aug 2016
24 Aug 2016 17:05:42
Sorry. I can't buy that Harts a terrible keeper. He's had more games notable for his excellent performances than nearly any keeper I can think of. Not seen enough of Karius to make a judgement on whether he's better than Hart, but I certainly hope he is, because that means we'll have a real keeper on our hands. Hart hasn't had it easy at city over the years and their defences have been ropey for large periods, if he was that much of a liability I'm sure they would have got rid. Being English didn't save the likes of Rodwell.

16.) 24 Aug 2016
24 Aug 2016 17:31:42
He has had exceptional performances RA, including one reasonably recently against Barcelona that at least kept them in the tie. Unfortunately over the last few seasons those performances have come fewer and further apart, while his errors have become more frequent and more catastrophic.
At the moment I would be no happier with him in net than mignolet.

17.) 24 Aug 2016
24 Aug 2016 17:33:29
I actually rate Hart, I think he's decent. He makes a few mistakes, but most keepers do. He's better than mignolet and to say he's worse than karius without having seen him play is odd to say the least.

18.) 24 Aug 2016
24 Aug 2016 19:17:05
Hart should stick to washing his hair.

19.) 24 Aug 2016
24 Aug 2016 19:24:39
Hart is an awful keeper and his mistakes are there for all to see. His howler at the Euros when Bale hit the free kick from 35 yards out and he still spilt it despite having all day to see it coming. Had Karius or Mingo or any other non English GK done that, he would have been slaughtered for it and rightfully so. But because Hart is English, the apologies and excuses came pouring out and now certain fans want him here if Karius hadn`t signe. The guy is awful and deserves the grief he gets, end of.

20.) 24 Aug 2016
24 Aug 2016 19:35:58
Hart was exceptional the first time city won the league. He has got worse but to say he's a bad keeper is a bit harsh I feel. That said I would t want him at Liverpool. He's not consistent and Like the rest of the team all I want is consistency rather than great one week awful the next. We'v had too many false dawns and Hart isn't what we need.

21.) 24 Aug 2016
24 Aug 2016 21:47:23
Agree with Hart, he is a rubbish keeper, even flicked on the Man city game tonight briefly and there he was flapping at crosses. Credit to Migs, at least he is a decent shotstopper, but if Hart was with our defence, he would probably be worse then Migs in my opinion, definitely just as bad, he will struggle when he moves on to a team who do not have as good of a defence as City does.

As for Sakho, has it really gotten that bad with him? I have not really been following his story since he was sent home from America. Is Klopp looking to get rid because of his attitude? I thought he was still injured, that's why he was still not in the team.

22.) 25 Aug 2016
25 Aug 2016 00:32:04
Joe Hart advertises Head and Shoulders and still has dandruff. Enough said, stay well clear.

23.) 25 Aug 2016
25 Aug 2016 10:14:01
All this fascination with Joe Hart is ridiculous, he only ever seems to be any good when he has Kompany infront of him to organise the defence.

In my personal opinion he only gets in the England team because he has a bigger name then the likes of Forster and Butland who are on their day better keepers and are more consistent albeit playing for smaller clubs.

24.) 26 Aug 2016
26 Aug 2016 09:24:58
It does make me laugh hearing some of this.

He only looks good because the City defence is great. Yet when the City defence is shredded it is Hart's fault even though the evidence is right in front of people's eyes that he has stopped them from shipping double figures in those games.

He's over-rated because he is English. Yet every other thing people are slagging him off with involves the words English or England - he wouldn't get half the crap he gets if he wasn't English. By the way if you want to see over-rated look at the hype that surrounded Courtois and then look at his performances. Oddly he isn't English.

Ed001 this one is for you I'm afraid (normally I agree with what you say), the comment wasn't that his peers don't slag him off, it was that his peers rate him. I've referenced before that Buffon who has been one of the best keepers in the world rates him and says it.

Hart was rubbish at the Euros so he's rubbish generally. OK so who here is prepared to make themselves look foolish by pointing out that Neuer was rubbish at the Euros so he must be rubbish all his career as well.

Take a look at the games v Liverpool and Barcelona, that isn't someone who isn't even a good shot stopper. (Also look up what at one time was called the golden glove ratings for EPL keepers each year - oh sorry I forgot that is because City's defence is amazing) .

I have a vested interest in keepers that I will declare, my son is a keeper and has been since the age of 7 and over the last few years it has been an eye opener just what goes on. He has been exposed to some poor coaching and some top level coaching - which is pretty much the same for most keepers. The development of keepers in this country is rubbish not because of ability or of numbers or of the quality of the dedicated GK coaches but because the way the game is structured at under age level is biased massively in favour of outfield players, every time the keeper gets into a stage where he can dominate you'll see the goals get bigger, the pitch gets bigger etc. Do people on here know just how few coaches at the grass roots under12 levels actually let their keepers take goal kicks? How many of them do any work on the keeper coming for the ball? Great deal of FA. It isn't helped by the simple fact that the top levels in English football have no interest whatsoever in English keepers. The likes of Hart and Butland are absolute rarities and if you want to talk about achievements being an English goalkeeper and getting into the top 2 divisions of English football as a starter is a massive achievement since most clubs/ managers only want to sign foreign keepers. And the scouting process is hit and miss as well, I heard a top flight club academy GK coach say that they have kids sent into them, by their own people, who can't do the basic drills that are a keepers day job and were sent through because the club's scout saw them play once and make one good save. The development of keepers in this country, in spite of some very good coaches trying to sort it out, is woeful. For those two to make it to premiership level in that situation is way more achievement than most seem to realise.

If you want to criticise keepers for being poor on crosses do some research first. One, take a look at the bucket loads of footage that is out there of the top keepers in training - see how much you can find of dealing with crosses that involves more than just the spare keeper standing in their way and not interfering. All the time and effort that coaches put into having the defence man mark, zonal mark, mark this type of player, stand here etc see how much you can find where they do that, with all the buffeting and illegal stuff and have the keeper coming to claim it. By the way next time you're at a match and hear the keeper call for the ball, take a look at how many defenders actually respond by clearing the way for him - great deal of none because they're too busy thinking about the shirt pulling contest and the coach ripping them a new one for their man getting to the ball first etc. Watch what is done with keepers as a pre match warm up on crosses and that is pretty much what gets done generally. If you have a keeper who is averaging 70-30 or 80-20 on effectively dealing with crosses you have a really good keeper. To put that into context if your midfielder has a pass completion rate of 70% or 80% that is seen as a decent performance. If your keeper does anything less than 100% it is seen as him being crap. Think about what you accept in other players and then whether you accept the same standards from the keeper.

On which subject just going consistently onto the pitch in the most exposed position takes bigger cajones than most keyboard critics will ever have to find out whether or not they have. It takes more guts just to be on the pitch than most outfield players have to realise. Then add in the fans, don't forget your keeper spends half of every game in front of the away fans. And you would not believe the number of keepers I've heard saying they're glad of that to get away from the rubbish thrown at them by their own fans.

If you want to criticise Hart for something then be realistic, he isn't a good footballer, he is a goalkeeper. Liverpool were lucky to have 2 naturally great keepers in the past in Clemence and Grobelaar who were more interested in trying out being outfield players and were allowed by their coaches to do it. But if your day job is to underwrite insurance and you happen to use a computer as a small part of that, should you be expected to be a secretarial level typist? If your day job is to train to do the many things a keeper already has to focus on are you going to become a good sweeper? Then add some context that most centre backs are poor distributers. Seriously watch how many will only pass when there is a clear run to the man and the recipient is in masses of space. There is a reason why genuine top level keepers who can play as a true sweeper (i. e. be a passer not a hoofer) are rare. Hart is a poor distributer and as Jamie Carragher recently said he should have been working on that in the time since they knew who was coming in. But most of the flack being thrown at him here is poor. He is noticeably better than Mignolet and a lot of others around in the EPL. He also uses his size in a way that Mignolet, who is slightly taller, simply doesn't.

Now for the record, I don't think Liverpool should sign him.

Karius has been signed, he is an investment who is actually in the same position Hart was in, a guy who has developed to a good standard very early (check out his and Hart's age/ playing profiles) and the last thing we should be doing is not playing him because the club has signed a 29 year old highly experienced, highly successful international keeper. I also think if Liverpool do what other teams have done and invest in a young keeper and accept he will make mistakes, it could lead to a decade of having a top keeper. Don't stunt that.

I also believe that had Butland not got injured he would have 1. pushed Hart harder in the summer and 2. almost certainly have been brought in after the Wales game. Which would not have hurt either of them. But Hart would be a big step up from Mignolet.

One last comment because I made a comment about De Gea using his feet too much that was completely misunderstood. All keepers should be able to save with their feet when the occasion demands, that isn't what I'm referring to. What I'm talk about is a good keeper isn't still just sticking his foot out at pretty much anything close to his sides rather than looking to use his hands whenever possible. I've watched a lot of keepers over the past 4 years with my son, United have been lucky not to concede far more goals where he goes with his feet and misses (because it wasn't the right choice) or because you can't generate power by sticking your leg out just deflects the ball into the surrounding area opening up a rebound chance. Hence the reason I've heard full time GK coaches shouting at kids "oi De Gea use your hands".

Anyway sorry for the long rant but having had an insight into goalkeeping over the last few years (and more aspects/ levels of it than I've mentioned here) it really annoys me that people apply such double standards to how they rate players and are always quick to kick the keeper in spite of evidence in front of them of what is in front of the keeper.

{Ed001's Note - sorry but if you are going to go with that nonsense about his peers, then you are wasting everyone's time with crap. I couldn't be arsed to read this, because anyone who thinks a guy with poor positioning, who constantly flaps at shots he should save easily, is any good, has not got a clue. Hart is an average goalie. Buffon has said nice things in the past about a lot of crap keepers, in fact I seen a quote recently, shown to me by a Belgian guy, about Migs which was talking up his quality. It is pointless to mention what their peers say about them, they are not in a position to make honest comments as they are very likely to work with them in the future and it can be awkward. Just ask Andy Townsend about how awkward things can be if you make non-complimentary remarks about a fellow pro you then have to deal with, either on your side or the opposing side, later. His ugly XI caused him a lot of issues during matches when he had to face his choices.}

25.) 26 Aug 2016
26 Aug 2016 10:18:03
If you think goalkeepers have it tough, you should see how they were treated in earlier eras, before referees began protecting them.

Keepers have the most longevity, and the least injuries of any position in football. So in that sense, it is certainly not the riskiest position.

Keepers are most in danger from their own players. See our very own Karius. This happens when a defence is poorly organised. A goalkeeper who knows how to organize a defence and communicate well will put himself at less risk.

All in all, your rant is unconvincing, and does nothing to undermine the original point:Joe Hart is overrated because he is English.

Man City now have the coach with the stature to act accordinlgly.

26.) 26 Aug 2016
26 Aug 2016 10:28:37
Ed001 I don't expect everyone to agree about Hart, he does polarise debate. I also don't have an issue with your comments about peers, I know exactly where you are coming from about not saying bad things. I was quoting Buffon because I haven't seen him play up truly crap keepers and he has to my knowledge no cross over gains from praising Hart.

Positioning is an interesting one and I know what you mean about the quality of save being influenced. I've seen a lot of it all levels where the keeper makes what looks a spectacular (for the fans) save that would have been straight forward if their positioning was better. I've also seen at age levels people raving about the wrong keeper because they can't see that the better keeper was the one who didn't keep getting himself into a mess, that he had to do something spectacular to bail himself out of.

But then positioning also isn't about where they are for that one isolated second so it can be a lot harder to blame a keeper for being in a poor position for one shot if that is because of where he has had to be before that. Just my opinion but Hart gets his positioning decent more often than not - Mignolet for me is maybe break even (trying not to be unfair here) . Hence I don't agree with the view Hart is worse than him. Not least because he is still making those bail out saves when he is in the wrong place. My main point though was that what slack people cut a forward (he has to be there to miss and you only worry when he isn't there at all) they don't cut a goalkeeper - e. g. he may not get his positioning right but he is still making the saves, when you worry is when the positioning isn't great and the bail out saves aren't happening either. And I have no expectation other than people will now say that is totally different.

I don't expect to agree with people here about Hart, I'm not an England supporter so have no vested interest in him, I just don't rate him as low as the rest of you. It is opinion. I've said before he's on the lower fringes of the top group n the EPL and that is my opinion. In terms of what is available in the EPL Liverpool would struggle to find someone better available to buy. Personally I'm coming round more to the view that if you're buying below the top level of player experience in the EPL counts a lot considering how many players fail to settle. I also said I wouldn't suggest Liverpool should buy him unless Karius is totally crocked. I'd rather see Karius given the time to develop from what is a pretty good standing for a 21 year old. The key thing being people don't jump on his back over every mistake. I don't rate De Gea as highly as others but I do recognise he is in that top group and one reason he is there is because at the same age as Karius he had a manager who said he was going to persevere with him even though at times he was woeful.

{Ed001's Note - I think you are missing the point, Hart concedes too many because his positioning is poor and he very rarely makes simple saves. When he does, then the media is full on about him being some kind of superstar for parrying a bunch of shots hit at him. He is average, yes better than Migs, but he is utter dross. Hart is not good enough for the Prem and has been very lucky to have the career he has, purely because he had great potential at one stage and is English.}