02 Oct 2022 05:05:25
Morning ed002.

There's lots of criticism direct at the owners in recent weeks regarding lack of investment in the squad., especially the midfield

In your knowledge and opinion, is the money there or has Klopp been reluctant to spend if the right player isn't available? You're the only person I know ( not personally of course) that can shed the light

I think this topic really should be out to bed, if only to stop the whinging not only on here but everywhere, the place is in meltdown

Cheers
Drogie.

{Ed002's Note - Two midfield players were added in the summer although one was on loan at rge last minute after Klopp changed his mind about not wanting a midfield player. A striker who could cost €100M was addred. The owners are easily blamed but they are not picking or negotiating for the players.}

1.) 02 Oct 2022
02 Oct 2022 15:24:01
The owners are partly responsible for our current situation as well as Klopp and most importantly the players. Man City keep adding to a winning team. What do we do? Fudge around. Didn’t buy a quality midfielder.

2.) 02 Oct 2022
02 Oct 2022 16:16:48
Nice try Drogie/ Ed2, but there are too many snowflakes out there who don't have the brains to really understand and who are intent on simply blaming the owners.

What everyone should be doing is having trust in a manager who has performed miracles for several years and owners who saved the club from oblivion and returned it to the top table across every competition.

I for one trust the manager, coaches and players to turn this this tough phase around (noting that this tough phase is 1 loss and 4 draws thus far against very competent competition) and show their true capability by the end of the season.

Enough said.

YNWA.

3.) 02 Oct 2022
02 Oct 2022 17:40:36
We chose to spend 80M on a player that can only sits on the bench.
How will that improve us?
When we spent big and got Aqualani, he was supposed to replace Alonso. He never made it, owing to injury and etc. As a result, the team suffered and went downhill form there.

While only time will tell on Nunez, we simply do not have the luxury of buying players at the price and not expecting immediate contribution.
He has not shown to be an improvement over the departed Mane, nor the false player in Firmino.

That to me has been the biggest trick we missed, ie investing wisely.
Before Jota got injured and given that Firmino is staying, I would say our weakest remain in midfield, and we have chosen to done nothing.

And the insistence on playing TAA at right back, and playing with such a high line is going to cost us more, and more.
1. Lost Vinicius JR in the #UCL final
2. Mitrovic came over the top of him at Fulham
3. Shocker for Napoli's game
4. Shocker for Brighton's game
That's I can recall off hand, but I am sure there are many more.

He is a good defender, but doesn't always defend well.
Kloop thinks he score with a good line here, but it is a joke. A defender's first job is to score, just like a striker's job is to score or at least enable scoring.

Whose fault is it?

4.) 02 Oct 2022
02 Oct 2022 17:47:20
I’m glad someone’s enjoying the awful performances and mid table mediocrity, cons.

5.) 02 Oct 2022
02 Oct 2022 21:05:03
@6Times, grow up and try and add something to the discussion that’s actually worth considering. Start off by explaining why you chose the username you have and remember what it actually means. Nobody is enjoying the way we are playing, least of all the club and the players themselves.

6.) 02 Oct 2022
02 Oct 2022 21:08:03
Sorry cons, but we are terrible. Whilst the owners did keep us from oblivion, they haven’t really forked out loads on players, have they? They used the coutinho
money for vvd and Allison, then we bought Nunez, with the sales of mane, neco williams, and whoever else over the summer, I think our net spend was about £20 million odd? Now I’m not claiming to be an expect in the financial running of a football club but In my simple way of thinking, if you sell players and get £70 million and then buy a player for £85 million, you’re net spend is £15 million? The point is you look at arsenal, spurs, utd and city…. their net spend was much more than us and it’s worked for them as they are all higher in the table than us. Klopp also clearly is running out of ideas…. every man and his dog can see that teams are putting more bodies in midfield to
Stifle ours and then focusing their attacks on the right because the know Trent is a liability. He is not a good defender because he costs us games and a defenders main purpose is to defend, and not constantly lose the ball and be caught out of position. I for one would like to see him dropped so he realised he isn’t untouchable. I’d also to see Arthur play with Thiago and Fabinho in midfield (although fabinho has been poor too) . I still think that Nunez was an £85 million flop too.

7.) 03 Oct 2022
03 Oct 2022 07:11:54
Playing a midfield or Arthur, Fabinho and Thiago is a disaster waiting to happen, as between them they have the pace and mobility of the QE2 and teams will still play through us like we’re playing without a midfield.

8.) 03 Oct 2022
03 Oct 2022 07:36:47
Funny how there wasn't much wrong with Trent and our midfield last season when we were on the cusp of winning 4 trophies. Now all of a sudden they're all liabilities and almost the whole team needs replaced.
Fickle "sing when you're winning" mentality glory seekers who throw the toys out the pram when the team aren't strolling to victory after victory then take to the Internet to slag every aspect of the club, from the owners to individual players.
When the going gets tough and all that.

9.) 03 Oct 2022
03 Oct 2022 07:59:55
It’s a fair point Flash, but you can’t just stick your head in the sand either. We could pick a formation to play against us. We are so one paced and predictable. This season if you are picking a combined City and LFC team we get no one in. Whereas a few years ago it was 7 or 8. Something has gone horribly wrong.

Klopp keeps saying we need to change and then every game is the same.

10.) 03 Oct 2022
03 Oct 2022 08:13:17
Trent is playing awful but I don’t think the change in tactics is helping his game. And to blame him alone is pathetic VVD has been just as bad if not worse standing there with his hands behind his back just dropping off. Fabinho is all so playing awful are midfield is just being played through like it’s not there Milner can not play at this level anymore that’s nothing against his effort that’s just age. Henderson cannot play in the number 8 position anymore his levels playing there have been falling season on season after the league win but I would start him over Fabinho in the 6 at the minute. With Thiago and Elliott in front. Klopp has got to change back to Trent staying out wide and getting Mo making the runs into the middle again. It’s not good moaning about are squad and what transfers we should have done because this is are squad there is no chance of a league challenge this season but to have started as bad as we have we are only 4 points from top 4 what is our aim now.

11.) 03 Oct 2022
03 Oct 2022 09:50:03
Manager at fault. Needs to up his game and get ruthless with the underperforming players and drop them. I'd sooner lose games with Nat Phillips etc giving everything he's got than Virgil walking around the place afraid to tackle an attacker for fear of missing the world cup. If he can't/ won't do it then maybe he needs to think was signing that contract extension a good idea.

12.) 03 Oct 2022
03 Oct 2022 10:19:07
Klopp gets the most praise when it’s all going well soon fairness he deserves the most stick when we are utterly shocking and spineless. But I fully agree VVD and Fabs have been just as terrible as Trent.

13.) 03 Oct 2022
03 Oct 2022 10:19:20
Sorry Grino, but there’s no way that Henderson at number 6 is a good idea. An out of form Fabinho is still better than Henderson there, Henderson is not and never will be a defensive midfielder. Thiago and Elliott in front of whoever is at number 6 leaves the same problem we’ve had all season, that the defensive midfielder is almost completely isolated and the full backs completely exposed, the way we play requires someone like Gini Wijnaldum to be disciplined, energetic and press the opposition (ie a water carrier) which with respect to both Thiago and Elliott, isn’t their game. We may be 4 points behind fourth, but our next two games are against the top two and at this moment it looks highly unlikely that we’ll get anything out of them given that we’re playing so badly can anyone really see us getting anything out of those games, taking red tinted specs off?

Actually flash, it was pretty evident that we’d need to make changes last season as Henderson couldn't go on forever, Thiago was injury prone, there was no cover for Fabinho, Milner was on his last legs, neither Ox or Keita could be relied upon and Curtis was more miss than hit. the champions league final horribly exposed our midfield, we barely laid a glove on Madrid and contrary to his man of the match award, we really didn’t trouble courtios (Valverde was mom in my honest opinion as he got up and down the pitch excellently, was like an absolute dynamo, that’s the kind of midfielder we do need) . That should have been a lightbulb moment for the club that we needed to change things. We’ve literally failed to fix the roof when the sun is shining and paid the price for nothing more than outright hubris that we thought we were better than we actually are. All this talk or Tchouameni or Bellingham is nonsense, as one was never happening and the other won’t want to come to a club so far off the pace when he can go to City or Madrid and be in a winning side straight away notwithstanding the money side of things. If it’s true that we didn’t want to spend on account of “waiting for the perfect midfielder”, that was an insanely bad idea, were plenty of very good centre midfielders available out there we could have brought in who would have improved both our starting 11 and squad options overall, the fact we’ve ended up signing an injury prone lightweight cast off in desperation on loan at the last moment just makes my eyes roll so hard I think my retinas might detach. I think we have to use the January market or this season is over as the current squad isn’t good enough.

{Ed025's Note - good piece of journalism there 6 times. You could well be the next ED025 mate.. ?

14.) 03 Oct 2022
03 Oct 2022 10:29:59
How many times. Hendo played number 6 the year we won the title. Fabs is vastly overrated he makes Maguire look quick ?.

15.) 03 Oct 2022
03 Oct 2022 11:48:50
Our problems do lie in midfield via their protection of the back 4. I think the players are trying to hard to be on the front foot and therefore not giving the back 4 the protection they clearly need at the moment. Trent and VVD are making mistakes because they are being putting in positions where mistakes can be made. No defender is perfect, if they were no goals would ever be scored. I really think Klopp needs to switch formation to have two holding midfielders to protect the back 4 more. We played awful on Saturday and still scored 3 times. We can and will improve and I trust Klopp to make it happen. We have a good team and they will show it.

16.) 03 Oct 2022
03 Oct 2022 11:56:03
Markp08, we didn’t win a champions league or a title until we signed Fabinho. For the record though, Fabinho played about 75% of the league games when we won the title.

17.) 03 Oct 2022
03 Oct 2022 12:27:02
Fabs has never had a season close to the level of Hendo in the title winning season. The problem is now both are passed their best and are plodders compared to City’s midfielders.

18.) 03 Oct 2022
03 Oct 2022 13:16:52
Glad to see many fans finally seeing the owners crimnl lack of investment, been saying for many seasons and get nothing but abuse for it on here, very pro FSG, we have been falling behind for a couple seasons, no good saying we nearly won the lot last season because we fell short on the 2 major ones through lack of quality to get us over the line, no chance we are even in the Bellingham discussion with no CL and i don't think we will be in it without some one major sold, we get promised every year a big summer and it doesn't come, young up and comers is all good but they can't play to the level of a Mane or Salah or Diaz straight away, the side looks tired and bored without new blood challenging them, personally a change to 3 at the back would help Trent and possibly let us get some control back in games and keep us tighter at the back.

19.) 03 Oct 2022
03 Oct 2022 13:44:19
Surely the problem is the recruitment team itself - historically at least. They should have known Aquilani wasn't fit to lace Alonso's boots before they spent all that money on him. Look at how well Brighton have been recruiting.

20.) 03 Oct 2022
03 Oct 2022 15:52:33
The recruitment would not be even mentioned if our main players were even close to their best.

Just take Salah if he was on 10 plus goals now and VVD was on his game we wouldn’t be having this discussion because we would be very near the top of the league. All our main players have been pitiful all at the same time of logic says let’s blame the owners ?.

21.) 03 Oct 2022
03 Oct 2022 16:17:27
6Times, do you not get bored of repeating the same post over and over again? You are boring us all to tears.

22.) 03 Oct 2022
03 Oct 2022 16:39:25
Think we all know Mr Klopp is far too loyal to some players, Keita, Ox and Milner should of all gone at the end of last season that’s the reason I believe we are in this midfield mess now.

23.) 03 Oct 2022
03 Oct 2022 16:42:11
Klopp has the same issue with the players Jam.

24.) 04 Oct 2022
03 Oct 2022 22:55:02
By and large the recruitment team has done a really good job - perhaps Naby (attitude) and Ox (injuries - although he was playing really well until the Roma game) aside.

I think FSG have actually done their bit (@ £900m - £1bn on first team squad players since they got here) .

I agree, mostly, with the view that having signed Diaz and Nunez as attacking ‘starters’ that the emphasis was on the need to bolster midfield. Hendo and Thiago and, to a lesser extent Fabs are very good but their effectiveness has been blunted by playing so many games in the past 2 or 3 seasons at the highest levels of league football in the world. Obviously age is a factor too for all three of them.

I think that we were both unfortunate and also planned badly in the last window. I think Plan A was to sign Tchouameni and Carvalho and with Elliot returning and Ox, Curtis and Naby fit (along with Fabs, Hendo and Thiago being rotated) we could challenge this season and then look to add Bellingham next season. With Tchouameni, Bellingham, Thiago, Elliot, Carvalho, Hendo, Naby, Morton and maybe one more ‘utility signing’ we were set for 23 / 24. The trouble was the foundation for the midfield wanted to go somewhere else - that was part of the unfortunate bit.

The second part of the unfortunate bit was that we had a pile of midfielders injured during pre-season and into the start of the season. Those that played were either under done or lacking in confidence which has impacted the confidence / performance of the rest of the team. It also didn’t help the defence that Ibou and Joel were injured.

The major fault, which we should have addressed was the Plan B if we couldn’t get our primary midfield target, which we know we didn’t. I think JK placed his trust in the players he knows to get us through the season, but that didn’t work as most of them got injured. Plan B turned out to be the loan of a player with potential at the last minute which made it look like a knee jerk reaction panic buy.

25.) 04 Oct 2022
04 Oct 2022 08:15:42
@WDW, But if we couldn't get target A or B, we should of been going and making sure we got C or D, if we are to believe Salah was 4/ 5th target then we still should of been getting the faces in, we have needed a goal scoring mid since we lost the first CL final to Madrid, where we were starting the peak of this side, quality additions then in each window would of kept us on top and winning more, the owners haven't fulfilled the squad side of LFC enough and it's showing massively, it did when we lost the CB's, your not telling me that Bissouma, who if we were interested in would apparently cost us £40 mill plus but then goes to spurs for under 30 million, Tielmans or even Traore wouldn't give us better options than Milner constantly coming on in games and knocking our rhythm, 3 games at least he's come on to no good and is starting games too, City have pulled away while we have gone massively backwards by going back to the buy potential BS that FSG want to use, sooner they sell the better and i hope the message can start coming into the stadium more as the murmurs of discontent have been heard louder around the ground and will hopefully continue to rise, Bellingham or Rice is a must but we will end up Keita getting a nice new contract for being worse signing under Klopp and Milner getting yet another extension too, it's a joke.

26.) 04 Oct 2022
04 Oct 2022 09:53:35
Thiago has been injured a fair bit of the 2 full seasons he's been here. He certainly hasn't been over played by any stretch.

27.) 04 Oct 2022
04 Oct 2022 10:24:21
I see two main issues.

1) We have shifted away from making numerous inspired Robbo, Gini, Taki, Kostas, Shaqiri type signings to only targeting one or two of the very best eg Konate, Darwin, Tchouameni, Bellingham etc. Whether that is a Klopp decision or a collective decision is difficult to say. This means less churn, which has its upsides - continuity and consistency - and its downsides - stagnation and fatigue. It also means you're competing with Real, Chelsea, City and Bayern for players. Not easy, even with Klopp at the helm.

2) We seem to have shifted away from a team that tries to control space to one that wants to control the ball. That all started with the the Thiago signing and has continued with the new system we are trying to implement. The issue here is that you then need more technical players like City and we are not helped with the fact that Thiago is spending large chunks of the season out injured. Time will tell whether this is going to give us more success than the space controlling team did.

28.) 04 Oct 2022
04 Oct 2022 14:52:30
@6times, sorry but I disagree, I don’t believe playing arthur, Thiago and Fabinho would be a disaster waiting to happen…. I think that playing a fully match fit Arthur with those two is probably our strongest midfield option. Henderson isn’t mobile enough anymore, Milner is way past his best, carvalho and Elliott, whilst very good are still too lightweight for me for the premier league and in all honesty, do not add any help to the defenders. With the Arthur, Thiago and Fabinho, you have good holding and passing ability, including opening up low block defences. Yes we may not have the pace but we would have control. I also believe that once Calvin Ramsay is fit, he should be given an opportunity and replace Trent, who I just feel adds nothing defensively to us. He needs to be retaught how to defend. I’m not saying that this is the ideal
team but I believe it would be our strongest with what we have. If all our midfielders were fit, I’d definitely choose that midfield three to start with. Personally, as every team seems to play 5 midfielders against us, and break at pace on the counter, I think we have to fight fire with fire, and put more bodies in midfield…. like a 4-5-1 or 3-5-2 formation or variations of such formations, like a 4-2-3-1, basically anything that will get bodies in midfield. Diaz has to be a starter as much as possible, he is our best player. I’m not sure what is going on with Nunez but he seems to bottle it every time he gets a chance to play…. his first touch is very poor, he jseems to have a shot and be able to get good positions, but doesn’t really have a footballing brain. Compare him to haaland, yes it helps him playing with world class players, but look what he does off the ball or even with the ball but playing other players in on goal. He is an unbelievable player and he will break the premier league scoring record that salah holds easily in his first season in the epl. Compare this to Nunez…. that’s it, I can’t really say much because he isn’t anywhere near that level. He is still young and needs to adapt and perhaps we need to be patient but you need to play to adapt and he’s not, and when he does get on, he adds nothing. Also you can only be patient for so long before it’s too late and you are out of the running for the title, and then top four, and then where has that patience got you? And if we aren’t playing in the champions league, then that will also impact on the quality of players we can bring in.

29.) 05 Oct 2022
05 Oct 2022 02:35:08
How are the wholesale changes people seem to want working out for Forest?

30.) 06 Oct 2022
06 Oct 2022 16:48:42
WDW, I think you're reaching a touch if you are using what Forest are doing as a comparison mate ?.

31.) 07 Oct 2022
07 Oct 2022 08:22:42
@TIR, you are correct but it was an exaggeration to make a point. Going out and buying wholesale doesn’t work.

I think our midfield targets for this season were most likely Tchouameni and Carvalho to bolster the lads we already had - Hendo, Fabs, Thiago, Harvey, Naby, Curtis, Millie and Ox, with Millie and Ox gradually being phased out and Citeh starters (Hendo, Fabs and Thiago) being rotated with Tchouameni, Harvey, Naby and Carvalho/ Millie.

I think the plan was that Millie and Ox would be released next summer, Bellingham would come in and the 3 starters would come from Bellingham, Tchouameni, Thiago, Fabs, Harvey, Carvalho and perhaps Naby, which would be a reasonable group - especially with Hendo, Bajcetic / Morton as back-up

Trouble was the big signing wanted to go elsewhere, we had a shed load of midfield injuries and that stuffed up the confidence in the group and in particular the defence who lost their shield in front of them.

It will be interesting to see if we make a move for a ‘big name’ midfielder in Jan and then a Jude type signing in the summer - if so I think the club will think that it is back on track.

My point was that there was a plan and just buying heaps of midfielders wasn’t the answer and Forest just struck me as an exaggerated example of ‘panic’ buying (or unstructured / unplanned buying) .