23 Jan 2024 00:27:38
I could be wrong but my impression tells me a few things

1) since Jota came back from injury, his overall play, especially link up and pressing has improved, If this continues I do wonder what's our best starting 11

2) the inverted FB thing is now much more controlled and generally doesn't upset our shape both offensively and defensively too much and also factors in players attributes rather than what I considered as doing for the sake inverting regardless of the player doing so previously
i) Gomez doesn't come into the midfield from LB, he just does more underlapping runs
ii) Bradley doesn't do that at all
iii) TAA selectively does it in deep lying positions to spray passes as did Xabi used to and the general defensive shape is retained, this also enables our MF and attackers to push up, most notably Salah (who at one time was always getting the ball at halfway line, back towards goal and being crowded out quickly)

3) Jones has added a certain decisiveness in his passing and decision making, which is why he's moving the ball faster and using his skills to get pass people rather than going into traps and blind alleys as in the past

4) Konate is taking more responsibility in his play since he needed to play the backline leader when VVD was out for one game and also using his good long passes which I don't recall his doing as much previously though he could

5) Alisson is making goalkeeping look real simple and boring, that's why he is overlooked for all kinds of personal accolades. Once in a while he does need to make wonder saves and has done so this season, but in most games, his superior footwork, positioning, awareness, passing made it seem he was dealing with simple situations and all the great he has done is understated.

1.) 23 Jan 2024
23 Jan 2024 03:42:08
I have the same impression as you, sgynwa. Especially regarding the inverted FB thing that we are doing now. Initially, it seems to be our default go-to system, with Trent inverting regardless of what is happening on the pitch. But now, or at least before his injury, he does it selectively and would occasionally choose to remain out wide depending on how our opponents play. This makes us much more stable and unpredictable in our play.

And for Jones, I think he is just more comfortable playing the role he is playing now. Previously, he was still getting used to it, hence why he needs a moment to think about what to do next and this extra moment caused him to slow down our play at times. But now, he is almost doing it instinctively hence why it seems much faster. I'm really happy he is settled now and I do hope his current injury is nothing major.

2.) 23 Jan 2024
23 Jan 2024 06:55:58
Excellent points and I'd agree with the all, particularly 1,2 and 3.
On konate I just think problem was he missed too many games threw injury, now that he being injury free for a decent period we are seeing the player that i think we all knew was there.

3.) 23 Jan 2024
23 Jan 2024 07:01:33
Good post Sgynwa.

Another observation is does this means Peps tactics are now working or still not working?

They say it takes 12 months to get over heartbreak. I’m guessing that means it takes 16 months to get over a bad book release ?.

4.) 23 Jan 2024
23 Jan 2024 08:19:43
Agree with all that sgynwa. You really are an excellent poster sir.

And I agree with all that dracred posted also. On the inverted RB it is definitely working a lot better and is becoming a very strong formation. As dracred pointed out, at the beginning, Arnold would just run into CM no matter what was occuring on the pitch. Example, the would be loads of space in the RB position and a congested midfield. Konate would get the ball and Arnold would vacate the space to run into a congested midfield. Konate had nowhere to go then. Or we would play a game against a narrow defence and Arnold would always go CM. So frustrating. Now he goes where the space is, mixes it up and is very very dangerous. He also goes to defensively sound positions more often than not and seems to be getting back in position a lot quicker. And has better cover when he does get very advanced beyond the ball. It's actually working really really well now. Fully realised I added very little if nothing to Dacred post?

I do think it's mostly are Arnold formation. If he is out, others are playing it very very conservatively. Practically barely at all and are 90 percent of the time playing traditional full back roles. Kind of to your point there sgynwa.

On Konate, he has activated god mode these last few games but like Digger said, I'm just praying he stays injury free. Always a worry about him.

Jones is becoming a superstar.

Alisson is the best goalie in the world.

So all in all, I have added nothing to what anybody has said but still wrote a long post anyway. God I'm good at copying and making it sound like I know some stuff.

5.) 23 Jan 2024
23 Jan 2024 09:39:25
I just think we're getting accustomed to the system. we still get exploited, there were moments in the game when there was thr same space on our flanks. ANd Gomez definitely drifted into midfled, especially in the second half.

For Jota, he seems to gone to that stage of his career when the game seems to slow down. only comes with maturity (with some exceptional exceptions at youth age! ) . great to see.

6.) 23 Jan 2024
23 Jan 2024 10:56:50
Jota has always been a good player and goal scorer, he became a scape goat by a brave few when things were going bad. He hasn’t just learnt to pass and press in the past month or so.

Again the same with the inverted full back role used to get the most of one of our most talented players and it has worked again against the wishes of a lot who want to find issue with it. Our record in the League would suggest it’s been a success. Maybe as time has went on it has been tweaked on.

Konate’s biggest issue was injuries, stopping him him from getting a constant run of games. He’s has all the attributes to be a really good CB for years to come, IF he can stay healthy.

Jones might just be the replacement for Gini again a player highly criticised on the site for years. Jones isn’t flashy but he’s effective at what he does and now he’s chipping in with the odd goal.

My biggest observation is that it’s not rocket science that when a team is playing well then players obviously stand out . Make no mistake tho after a few bad games Jota WILL get criticised for passing even tho all our forwards miss place passes as regular as he does in my opinion but don’t score a regular. The inverted full back critics will come out in full flow even tho very few goals conceded can be solely put at the feet of “the system “
It’s the nature of the beast ?‍♂️.

7.) 23 Jan 2024
23 Jan 2024 11:48:45
It's is the nature of the beast Rover but I honestly think football is a fluid game.

If you are fan at a game, I one hundred percent agree that your job is to support and cheer the squad on no matter what is going on.

But away from game, on site like this, I honestly don't see the harm in debating and critizing certain aspects. Fact is the the inverted RB was causing issues at the start of the season and many of those criticizing it were saying they should at least mix it up for balance, the very thing that is making it work better now.

And I love Jota. Always have. But he has misplaced 100 passes a game at times. He has some issues with consistency but he is flying it right now. If he has another game where he mispasses a lot of passes, I will probably say he had a bad game.

I mentioned against Fulham that I was disappointed Mac Allaister didn't take enough responsibility to get the ball forward in Trent's absence. He was the first person I praised after the Bournemouth game and you can check the match posts.

On Grav, who I'm not supposed to mention, am I supposed to say he is flying with the off the ball stuff when clearly he is struggling. He could work on this with Klopp and become an absolute baller. Would I be wrong. Nope because I'm pointing out right now he is bad at it and that's true. Grav could be our best player someday and I'd love nothing more than people coming on here saying look at him Dave. And we ll have a good chuckle.

My point is, we are just having crack here as fans. I see no crack in being 100 percent positive about everything and ignoring any faults. We have no influence here over anything. Call it like you see it I say and relax a little. Balanced position is best.

{Ed025's Note - i think thats very fair Davey, if people dont like mentioning the faults i can certainly do it for you mate, on Jota i think he is a very good goal scorer but a terrible footballer who reminds me very much of Origi, a valuable member of the squad but is a better option off the bench rather than starting imo..

8.) 23 Jan 2024
23 Jan 2024 14:42:23
Also just to clarify, my phone autocorrected craic to crack. Craic is irish for fun.

I'm not saying we're all on cocaine. Well maybe Harry is but the for the rest of us I just meant were having fun ?.

9.) 23 Jan 2024
23 Jan 2024 15:00:35
Joe Gomez in the frame for LFC player of the season.

Just imagine if he scores winning goal in cup final (any one of the three cups will do) !

10.) 23 Jan 2024
23 Jan 2024 15:07:03
Davey, couple of things I learned when I lived in Dublin - everything is a good craic and everyone is ya man! Great place to live.

11.) 23 Jan 2024
23 Jan 2024 15:07:59
Hey Davey.
First of all I find you posts very reasonable and balanced opinions, put across in a way that you know it’s a proper conversation you’re after, so kudos for that.
With regards Jota, he has a better pass rate than Salah, significantly better that Nunez, ever so slightly worse than Gakpo with Diaz out in for by a good 4% . No other forward gets the stick Jota does even tho he still pops up with goals and assists than most excluding Salah.
Again like the “inverted fullback” that everyone has been harping on about since the start of the season. We’ve been beat once in the League, very unluckily to Spurs, so even if there was teething problems we still produced results week after week. It got to the stage Davey when It felt some could do with a Liverpool defeat so they wouldn’t lose their sanity and blame it on the system. I can’t remember too many goals conceded that can be directly blamed on our system, best defence in the League by the way ?
I’ve no issue whatsoever people having criticism of a player in a certain game for instance, they are only human and sh#t happens. I didn’t think Elliott was that hot the other night and I think he might be dropped for Grav, we shall see ?‍♂️ but the constant picking on some players (Jota) and then suggest he’s turned a better passer, presser in the past few weeks or the system we’ve used all season and won most games has been tweaked made the difference doesn’t sit at all with me.

12.) 23 Jan 2024
23 Jan 2024 15:50:23
Good posts Davey and Irish. Enjoyed reading them ?.

13.) 23 Jan 2024
23 Jan 2024 15:55:01
"On the inverted RB it is definitely working a lot better and is becoming a very strong formation. As dracred pointed out, at the beginning, Arnold would just run into CM no matter what was occuring on the pitch. Example, the would be loads of space in the RB position and a congested midfield. Konate would get the ball and Arnold would vacate the space to run into a congested midfield. Konate had nowhere to go then. Or we would play a game against a narrow defence and Arnold would always go CM. So frustrating. "

My sentiments exactly at the time, @Davey and @Dracred regarding the inverted RB stuff and clearly, I was not the only one mentioning these shortcomings either BUT it is clear that tweaks have been made to it to make us more secure when deployed esp. with the way Gomez inverts now. You've killed it, bro. Nothing else to add on my part.

14.) 23 Jan 2024
23 Jan 2024 16:23:47
I know exactly where you are coming from Irish. Well made argument there. Some critism is over the top or plainly not accurate. Some critism is not balanced with positivity. Get that also. All part of the game we play here I guess.

I also very much consider you a well balanced poster. Didn't mean for that post to sound like it was jumping down your throat. It was more a general post for the board.

I just can't keep any post to a few sentences. Something a lot of us struggle with. With these longer posts everything sounds like a lecture?.

15.) 23 Jan 2024
23 Jan 2024 20:17:58
Imo if jota played for arsenal they would win the league.

{Ed025's Note - you could be right Digger, he can certainly do the one thing they need....putting the ball in the net mate..

16.) 23 Jan 2024
23 Jan 2024 20:38:42
Where was the balanced posting last season?

17.) 23 Jan 2024
23 Jan 2024 22:47:45
Does this mean it’s not ‘the inverted rubbish’ anymore?

I’ve always thought it’s a system that got us results and that we would get better at it the more we used it. We no longer have the personnel to play the high fullbacks, stifling the midfield type of game.

The inverted system gives us the extra man in midfield so the attacking midfielders can get forward and we can play with a proper number 9 who stays high. The extra midfielder used to be the false 9 but now it’s one of the fullbacks.

There were teething problems sure and it still isn’t perfect but I don’t know a system that is. One thing that cannot be denied is that since we’ve started to employ this system we’ve lost 1 premier league game and that was due to forces out of our control.

It’s always seemed like some were praying for us to lose games with teams getting in down our right side so that could say ‘this inverted rubbish’ a few more times. What they should’ve been seeing is that we would get better at using the system which is exactly what has happened. The kinks are being ironed out and the players are becoming more familiar with their roles in it. Klopp actually does know what he’s doing, fancy that.

18.) 24 Jan 2024
24 Jan 2024 02:05:09
I think the inverted system has worked better since trent started dropping back between the 2 central defs if needed rather than trying to race back into right back position, and also since gomez started playing on the left, we can have a back 3 when trent goes into mid giving extra defensive cover by someone more comfortable in the defensive part of the game rather than robbo or tsimi trying to play a centre back role rather than heir normal game. personally i love watching nunez on the left and interchanging with the whichever cf we have on there. front 3 for on form would be salah right, nunez left jota/ gakpo cf but interchange with nunez to keep defenders guessing.

19.) 24 Jan 2024
24 Jan 2024 04:58:12
25 - your Jota reminds you of origi take is up there with one of your worst takes. But love your opinion ❤️?.

{Ed025's Note - i think they are peas in a pod Faith, very effective coming off the bench but should never start unless of injuries mate, both of them scored vital goals and Jota is actually a very good finisher, but his all around game is that of a pinball machine where when the ball is played to him you are not sure which way it will bounce off him..

20.) 24 Jan 2024
24 Jan 2024 08:55:49
I'll vouch for you Pecker. You were always behind it to be fair.

21.) 24 Jan 2024
24 Jan 2024 09:02:41
25 - I think you're letting that few occasions that has happened recently to overtake your impression of his overall game. Out of interest, do you watch every Liverpool game? Just want to know for context of this discussion and to gauge if you're seeing the progression or just snapshots of his game. Not asking to be snarky.

What I'm seeing is that he is elevating his game to a level where his confidence around the box is such that the game slows down, he can take another touch to create extra space or shift the defender's balance before he takes a shot. drops deep, can beat a player with deceptive acceleration and we actually don't have another player in the attacking group as nimble as he is around the box and in tight spaces. Origi was never any of this lol But anyways, I think that is the overall picture for what we're seeing from Jota. Oh and staying injury free is also a key for him

In terms of coming off the bench, I think like all of our attackers they have their good moments and not as good moments when starting. I'm not holding that up as evidence he is only good off the bench tho!

{Ed025's Note - I watch every Liverpool game Faith and have done for many years. A lot of my friends are supporters so we go out for every game mate. In the end though it’s just my opinion so don’t take it as gospel..

22.) 24 Jan 2024
24 Jan 2024 10:51:24
Beckers pecker just speaking for myself here BUT at NO point did I ever pray or wish that my team loses a game so I can gloat about it saying "I told you so" or "Inverted rubbish". Not even when Hodgson or BR was in charge. So let's have that right.

Also, cos many of us had concerns about the glaring short-comings within the inverted system does NOT mean we wanted us to lose just to say we were right. That's just wretched logic to have.

All we did was point out the lapses in the system that was costing us goals and giving opportunities uselessly to the oppo. when we did not need to and had to ditch it in order to rescue games. What's wrong with that, exactly? Should we not speak about these glaring concerns just cos we are getting results?

Now, the tweaks are being deployed and we are more secure with the way we play it which in the end, is the great thing here. Fine. Play the system BUT make us more secure while doing it which they are doing. Hats off to the coaches and players, once again.

23.) 24 Jan 2024
24 Jan 2024 14:00:41
I think we have to give pecker his win here Oli.

Dude was defending the system against a lot of people. Not just you and me. I like to think we were pointing out areas where it could be improved which has happen therefore we were kinda right and he was a little more right.

I find that more palatable then saying he was right and we were wrong. That sounds horrible?.

24.) 24 Jan 2024
24 Jan 2024 14:24:58
Davey or perhaps Pep was right and Klopp right to listen and trust him and fans who didn't like the system or Pep were not as right.

25.) 24 Jan 2024
24 Jan 2024 16:15:02
I know more than Pep and Klopp combined JK. That much I know. ?.

26.) 24 Jan 2024
24 Jan 2024 16:52:27
Haha love it Davey.

27.) 24 Jan 2024
24 Jan 2024 18:42:59
Davey, gloating is not my thing cos if it was, I have tons of things to gloat about on here. Also, I find this "winnier/ loser" logic quite childish when it comes to debates that like this. For me, it's not about knowing more than Klopp or whoever. Nor is it about "winning or losing" or who was "more right or wrong" or whatever. It's about calling out the issues you see in thetactics deployed and sound the alarm bells regardless of our position on the table.

Again for me, if a formation is causing that many problems, you either fix them or ditch it altogether (like we were doing to rescue games) and just cos I/ we called the issues out means I/ we know better than Klopp or Lijnders? Wow, is this what we are doing now? Sorry, not interested in engaging in such binary foolishness.

If I see problems, I call them out and I will continue to do that. Whether Im wrong or right is irrelevant to me cos it's not like I can change anything. Nor am I interested in wishing we lose so I can gloat about it and say "I told you so". I leave that to others to do. At the end of the day, the issues were there and we called them out and they have been fixed. For me, it's all good.

28.) 24 Jan 2024
24 Jan 2024 19:27:47
There were plenty of problems with how we were playing the formation originally Oli and like you said we had to ditch it some games to get over the line. And thankfully we did or we wouldn't have got the points. Now this hybrid mix is working far better. Don't sweat the small stuff of being right or wrong. I was only joking about that. Everyone on this site will be wrong at some stage.

Except for me. I'm never wrong.

{Ed025's Note - just like me Davey.. :)

29.) 24 Jan 2024
24 Jan 2024 19:33:55
"And I agree with all that dracred posted also. On the inverted RB it is definitely working a lot better and is becoming a very strong formation. As dracred pointed out, at the beginning, Arnold would just run into CM no matter what was occuring on the pitch. Example, the would be loads of space in the RB position and a congested midfield. Konate would get the ball and Arnold would vacate the space to run into a congested midfield. Konate had nowhere to go then. Or we would play a game against a narrow defence and Arnold would always go CM. So frustrating. Now he goes where the space is, mixes it up and is very very dangerous. He also goes to defensively sound positions more often than not and seems to be getting back in position a lot quicker. And has better cover when he does get very advanced beyond the ball. It's actually working really really well now. Fully realised I added very little if nothing to Dacred post. "


THIS!, Davey (and Drared) . The way we were playing this formation was leaving us vulnerable to counter attacks and mistakes leading to goals directly. To not call that out and ask that this be sorted, is just living in denial and I stand by the fact that myself (and many others) called it out cos Im not going to ignore a train-wreck in front of my eyes just to go with the flow and not spoil the good vibes.

Now, we are using it a bit more methodically and as required based on the diff. scenarios in-game and with Gomez as someone else said, we play it more conservatively hence, we are not vulnerable in transition like we were earlier in the season. Hats off to the players and the coaching staff for rectifying this issue cos clearly, they saw what many of us were calling out.

30.) 24 Jan 2024
24 Jan 2024 19:46:39
That's true. Me and Ed25. Never wrong.

And we would very much appreciate it if you take our word for that and not get petty by rereading posts and bringing stuff up. I'm just just trying to save you wasting time of your precious life and avoid going on a fool's errand.