19 Jun 2023 13:52:12
Rumours of a Saudi bid coming in for Thiago, which wouldn’t be surprising. Anything in it Eds?
{Ed002's Note - I really don't know.}
1.) 19 Jun 2023
19 Jun 2023 20:18:46
Sell him.
2.) 19 Jun 2023
19 Jun 2023 22:09:09
I’d sell him aswell . Great player but he’s a luxury player and we aren’t good enough to afford to have a luxury player we need to be a fully functional unit. Money could be used to go toward someone else also Trent can play his position now ??.
3.) 19 Jun 2023
19 Jun 2023 22:38:38
I think he needs to be surrounded by players in the same wavelength as him and we’ve struggled with that.
Maybe he’d have more chance with a longer run in a settled team.
Often I see a bit of magic, whether a rapid no-look pass or a bit of movement to open up space for a teammate.
When it doesn’t come off Thiago gets the blame, but it’s more a case of him being on a different wavelength.
Class player, just hasn’t gelled. Accept a good offer.
4.) 20 Jun 2023
20 Jun 2023 01:58:23
Great player and personality. Not quite the right fit for our team or even the PL. Older now and getting quite a few injuries so a move is probably best for his career and for the club. Win-win in my opinion if it happens.
5.) 20 Jun 2023
20 Jun 2023 07:26:08
Super player and a joy to watch when he fit and playing well. Just misses too many games threw injury, if got a half decent offer would take it, only 1 year left on his contract as well, will end up going for nothing.
6.) 20 Jun 2023
20 Jun 2023 08:30:19
In a perfect work (in my opinion) we completely trim the injury prone/ dead wood.
Out:
Thiago (sell)
Matip (sell)
Gomez (sell or maybe backup RB)
Carvalho (loan)
Ramsay (loan)
Morton (loan)
Milner (gone)
ox (gone)
keita (I've seen poppadoms with more endurance)
Bob (gutted)
In:
7.) 20 Jun 2023
20 Jun 2023 08:32:57
Hit reply early.
Trent should now be a CM.
In:
1 X quality RB
1 X versatile young CB who can cover RB (maybe even LB)
1 X strong CM more defensive minded (Kone)
1 X box to box CM (Thuram)
8.) 20 Jun 2023
20 Jun 2023 09:04:29
Skezza you said put Trent in midfield and then said we should sign Kone and Thuram (on top of Mac Allister) .
Why sign 3 midfielders if Trent is moving there? What is your logic there mate? Not having a pop just interested. I personally think Bajcetic, Jones and Elliott deserve chances as back up options.
9.) 20 Jun 2023
20 Jun 2023 09:28:26
Agree with MK. Baj and Jones have definitely earned their place in the squad, even if it is as back-up. I would add Morton to that list as well. I don't see how another loan would benefit him. Either he stays with us this season or he leaves permanently.
And I would rather give Bradley a chance instead of buying a new RB. I agree with getting a versatile CB who can cover either RB or LB though.
10.) 20 Jun 2023
20 Jun 2023 10:14:28
It really annoys me when ill informed keyboard warriors talk about 'dead wood' in such a disrespectful way when talking about Liverpool players some of whom have given sterling service to the club. Wo needs trolls with supporters like this?
11.) 20 Jun 2023
20 Jun 2023 12:00:25
If we want to challenge for the title next season, we need 3 midfielders and 2 centrebacks coming in this summer.
Elliott is not a midfielder and never will be. Use him as a backup to Mo Salah or let him move on to a team that will play him as a 10.
Jones has to show he can stay fit. One 10 game run of games is not going to change that. We cannot yet depend on him. If he stays fit and hungry, then he will force his way into the team.
Bajcetic is a baby and still needs to grow into his body. We should not be depending on him.
As for Doak, Morton and Bradley - by all means, give them a chance to be part of the squad this season. Outside of the early cup rounds, I wouldn't expect them to feature regularly.
12.) 20 Jun 2023
20 Jun 2023 12:11:23
Good point Kemlyn.
13.) 20 Jun 2023
20 Jun 2023 12:56:37
OK Kemlyncat maybe for your sensitive ears I should have said less essential players instead of deadwood.
being a supporter with an opinion doesn't make you a troll, things aren't always fluffy and colourful.
My reasoning being:
Matip - Has 1 year left on his contract, has been excellent in years gone but is slowly being phased out. Played (14) games last season, (10) in 20-21 and 9 in 19-20.
His unavailability is an issue and we need players who are consistency available.
Has been an excellent servant for the club and will be loved by everyone involved with the club.
Thiago - is a luxury player who is world class when available but again has injury issues (available for 18 games last season)
He is 32 and has one year left on his contract.
We either sell him now and get younger fresh legs in or we take the hit again (which will soon become a problem if we keep letting players go on a free)
If a Saudi club offers 30m+ for him we will bite their hands off.
Gomez - Personally i'd like to keep him but he's not played consistently under Klopp other than 19-20 (when he was fantastic. )
last three seasons he has a combined 35 appearances.
MK - I agree we shouldn't block Bajcetic, Jones and Elliot but if we sell Thiago I'd like to see another CM come through the door (along with Thuram) . Trent will probably occasionally still play RB or the Inverted WB role, Fabinho (I believe) will slowly be phased out over the season, Kone/ Thuram will take a while to get up to speed with the prem if history tells us anything is that Klopp likes to take his time adapting his players to the team - some took 4 months to start playing regularly. The issue with Liverpool of late is we haven't had the squad to do this and the whole team and individuals have suffered - look at Nunez, was forced into playing regularly from the off and i think needed time to learn the league and the language - was judged very quickly when he is clearly a fantastic player.
We also have Europa this season which means Klopp will rotate a lot more as the days between europe and the prem are fewer.
14.) 20 Jun 2023
20 Jun 2023 13:23:11
Skezza
I believe you are missing the point raised by Kemlyn. The issue here is not that certain players need replacing, it is using the term dead wood. I don't have sensitive ears but I find the term dead wood offensive when talking about Liverpool players. When Kenny or Stevie G were nearing the end of their playing careers where they deemed dead wood.
15.) 20 Jun 2023
20 Jun 2023 14:01:32
thiago - good but very luxury player - sell
Fabinho - done and dusted - sell
Jones - not good enough -- sell (many of us here are sentimental and try to hold on to him because of late season flourish)
Matip - sell
Hendrson - keep but limit time like milner
Get 1 or 2 more midfilders so that we can rotate with Alexis, Eliott, Luiz, Bajectic + Arnold
Get 1 more defender.
16.) 20 Jun 2023
20 Jun 2023 14:21:11
Skezza, i get your point but if we signed a right back as you suggested in order to permanently move Trent into midfield, surely that is instead of signing a 3rd midfielder. It just seems like we'd be over crowding it.
In your scenario we'd have
Trent, Thuram, Mac Allister, Kone, Fabinho, Henderson, Jones, Bajcetic, Elliott and Morton. It just looks like the younger lads would struggle to get a look in there.
If Trent stays as an inverted right back i agree with signing another midfielder though. I just don't want to make the same mistake and bloat the squad again. We've only just managed to get shot of the players on high wages not contributing enough. I'd rather just sign Thuram and Mac Allister if Trent's going to be moved to midfield with the signing of a right back. That's all mate.
17.) 20 Jun 2023
20 Jun 2023 14:40:04
I hope he goes he's never suited our team. Excellent close control and passing but no physical attributes and always gives the ball away in dangerous areas as well as making silly fouls. Obviously not his fault as he's being asked to play a role that doesn't suit his attributes. Time to move on, if it was pep he's already be gone.
18.) 20 Jun 2023
20 Jun 2023 14:51:13
If we move Trent into midfield do we not have Gomez and younger lads who can be used or as back-up and look for a more versatile defender. By the very nature generally defenders are not as costly as midfield players.
19.) 20 Jun 2023
20 Jun 2023 15:09:26
You might be right MK to be fair (I'd like to see Morton go on loan to a top Championship club or lower prem club if at all possible)
If it was a choice between getting a fantastic RB replacement for Trent and one CM (Thuram being my personal #1 and Bajcetic slowly replacing Fabinho) i'd rather that than 2 x CM and keeping Trent in the Inverted WB role.
I'm a full convert that Trent is (already and will get even better still) a top top CM.
20.) 20 Jun 2023
20 Jun 2023 15:16:27
Awk I get what you're saying, 'deadwood' a poor term for those you mention - apart from the absolute disaster that was Keita
I think the major question is whether Trent will move to midfield or do we persist with the hybrid role
If he moves that would give us MacAllister at lcm, Trent at rcm and I would like a cdm signed as I think Fabinho has been past his best for a couple of seasons now tbh
If he stays at rb/ hybrid then we would need a rcm and a cdm
Back ups being: Elliott, Jones, Bacjetic - all of which I would like to see get minutes and then experience in Thiago, Fabinho and Henderson
This allows for more rotation with 9 midfielders to cover 3 spots. We still have Morton as well, who I assume will get a chance pre-season and then either loaned out or integrated into the squad
Also, if we sign a cdm we could see Fabinho sold perhaps and there are reports linking Thiago with a move as discussed today as well
I agree now would be the time to sell Matip and recoup some money. I would also sell Phillips too and would like another cb - reports are we are looking to sign a left sided cb
That leaves us with MacAllister currently bought and the need for either 1 or 2 midfielders (depending on where Trent plays) and a cb.
21.) 20 Jun 2023
20 Jun 2023 16:31:16
Need to look at resale value. I would get rid of Gomez, Carvalho and Elliot. Keep Thiago around for another year to teach the youngsters and play when fit. Matip I’d get rid of as well but don’t think we would sell Gomez and Matip.
Unfortunately we don’t have any squad players L that we can sell for 30/ 40 mil to boost the transfer funds. Maybe Fabinho.
I would get rid of as many as we can to bring in players to challenge the first team and then use youngsters in cup comps.
22.) 20 Jun 2023
20 Jun 2023 18:29:49
Brummyred there would be no young players for Thiago to teach after your culling ?.
23.) 20 Jun 2023
20 Jun 2023 18:48:02
Yeah that's fair Skezza, can see why you'd rather move Trent. He looks promising in midfield areas the last 10-12 games for club and country.
I do think it would be one or the other though. I'm turn which way I'd go with it. I like the inverted right back system a lot but then it is very early days of utilising it.
24.) 20 Jun 2023
20 Jun 2023 19:29:27
Very interesting discussion between MK and Skezza. Personally I would move Trent full time to Midfield. It’s not I don’t like 3 at the back nor is it that I’m overly bothered about a needlessly complex system. No my only concern is that out of possession we still have the problem of Trent playing in the defensive line at RB. He’s not a top tier defender, never was, never will be so he shouldn’t be there if we want to return to being a top tier team. The decline of our midfield hd highlighted the amount of cover and support he had in the years where we won everything in that position, hiding his weaknesses somewhat but the cat is out of the bag and he shouldn’t stay there. He can be quality in the centre and there’s no reason we can’t find a right sided Robertson who can be just as effective going forward and defensively sound as well.
25.) 21 Jun 2023
21 Jun 2023 02:18:25
the problem we seem to have is that people assess elliot, Jones and Bajcetic as if they are starters. and then the same people talk about signing 2 or 3 midfielders who need to be starters.
well when we have Henderson, Fabinho, Thiago and Mac Allister, it really doesn't make sense signing another 2 or 3 midfielders. cos are they starters or squad players? we'd need to move on one or two of the senior players to make it make sense. otherwise we're just doing what we've done for years which is make the squad too big and over paid.
26.) 21 Jun 2023
21 Jun 2023 07:24:58
I'd move trent into midfield because he is moving into his prime years and I think that mentally, his mindset has shifted away from taking advantage of being a make shift fullback. To capitalize on his prime years, we need him to be mentally focused and maximize his strengths. Continuing to play him at Fullback, imo, will continue to force him to focus on areas of his game that aren't his strengths and potentially cause him to lose confidence. Midfield is his future and let's just make his future now.
Thiago also gets a bad rep, where his stats in defence are at least as good as Fabinho and Henderson. People see opposition teams running past our midfield, and the lazy eye goes straight to the idea that our midfield has no legs. No, any midfield will get turned around the way we play and crucially, while our attacking third have been ineffective with the press. Thiago is fine in our team and I think would be better to keep him than try to sell him. Leaving only Henderson and Fabino as the experienced first team midfielders will be a mistake going into a season we are trying to bounce back into top 4 and challenging for trophies. New midfielders traditionally don't tear it up straight away in our team and I think some continuity is important.
27.) 21 Jun 2023
21 Jun 2023 09:28:17
Faithinworks, IF we end up buying a handful of young MF's that need tutoring and easing into the side, then keeping Thiago is a good idea, although it could be argued that if Saudi money comes in, and there is a chance to claw back some of his cost, I can see that appealing to FSG.
I am all for the clear out, making way for young hungry, robust players whom Jurgen can develop over the rest of his tenure.
Being seen as a top side that nurtures and plays young players could give us the edge on teams like Dortmund when it comes to buying the JB's before they become household names.
Eventually FFP is going to have to kick in properly, and FSG are gearing things up for that.
{Ed002's Note - FSG are not "gearing up" for FFP - clubs already have to work within FFP and P&S rules.}
28.) 21 Jun 2023
21 Jun 2023 11:15:40
I think this summer will be the last chance to get a decent fee for Fabinho. We should sell.
29.) 21 Jun 2023
21 Jun 2023 10:48:14
Why are there two sets of rules then Ed?
{Ed002's Note - One is related to the PL.}
30.) 21 Jun 2023
21 Jun 2023 14:01:28
Ed, what I meant re 2 sets of rules is one for City and Chelski, and one for everyone else.
{Ed002's Note - That is not true. Manchester City have been charged with historical breaches. Chelsea are working within FFP.}
31.) 21 Jun 2023
21 Jun 2023 21:52:57
Agree on your point getting Kone as a priority signing in defensive midfield as compared to getting thuram in CM. I think signing a DM should be the most important considering the fact that both fab and hendo look past it. And besides with the emergence of Trent now in midfield. Will signing thuram be that necessary considering the fact there is enough cover for his spot.