22 Jan 2023 09:48:10
ED001 If your around mate.
I know you can't see into the future. But!
How do you envision the remainder of the season going?
Looks like no incomings in midfield. The team seems almost like they've given up on top 4. Injuries, zero confidence, a team truly in transition that is relying too much on the youth as the senior players don't have it in them anymore.
Yesterday's clean sheet is a positive and baby steps must be taken now with this team so damaged from last years efforts.
But I worry that Klopp is too stubborn to change the system, that is so OBVIOUSLY not working. The players will only get more fatigue, more points dropped with tough games coming up, as I just don't see where we win football matches anymore.
I guess I'm just looking for your opinion. (And everyone else's)
Cheers!

{Ed001's Note - I hope that confidence will come back and performances will improve as we get a run of clean sheets. That is the key to it, getting a good run of clean sheets. If we don't get that, things could end up spiralling down and down with the complete lack of confidence in the team.}

1.) 22 Jan 2023
22 Jan 2023 10:07:20
Cheers mate. Yeah hopefully we can get a few in the next 4 or 5 games.
Dare I say, better without VVD?

{Ed001's Note - he has not been himself since getting done by Pickford.}

2.) 22 Jan 2023
22 Jan 2023 10:08:58
Hope you're right Ed001. I think the key will be keeping Thiago and Bajcetic fit and at the base of the midfield. Thiago has been wasted a bit in the more free role ahead of a porous Hendo and Fabinho. But with the Thiago and Baj combination we suddenly were winning duels and shielding the defence. In fact Chelsea's only chances that called Alisson into action came from set pieces. I was hugely disappointed in Keita though. Good against Wolves then disappeared against Chelsea, true to his M. O. I'd like to see Carvalho in that more advanced position. He works harder than Keita and he's got that youthful fearlessness and there's no point having him if when we finally play with an attacking midfielder we use Keita, who leaves in 4 months.

3.) 22 Jan 2023
22 Jan 2023 10:39:12
Top 4 looks unlikely unless we go on a serious run which given our form doesn't look likely unfortunately. I'll probably get pelters for this but I'd sooner not be in Europe at all next season if the CL is off the table.

4.) 22 Jan 2023
22 Jan 2023 10:40:49
Thiago, Bajcetic and Carvalho imo that’s no where near good enough for top 4. It’s the change of system that gave us a chance to get a clean sheet. But we shall see.

My biggest point is after the second pre season why didn’t Klopp change it then? That was the perfect opportunity to get back to basics.

5.) 22 Jan 2023
22 Jan 2023 10:42:57
MK, I only watched the second half yesterday but when Keita got subbed we seemed to lose our early dominance. There may be other factors in that change but to me he seemed the catalyst.

My issue with keita isn't whether he is a good player or not. It's that it takes him a run of games to get a bit of consistency in his game, he then inevitably gets injured and the cycle repeats.

If he wasn't made of crisps I think he'd be a good option but with the way we play (or would like to) we need people we can rely upon to share the workload. Otherwise the fit ones play too much then get burnt out themselves.

6.) 22 Jan 2023
22 Jan 2023 10:45:31
I don’t like him but I didn’t think Keita was bad. We lost our shape after he was subbed.

Klopp missed a trick by not swapping the forwards around. Elliott should have plates right, Mo through the middle and Cody left. It was an obvious opportunity from 25 mins on but he didn’t try it.

I agree confidence is shot and clean sheets are a path to build.

I am a positive person and love nothing more than winning against the odds. However betting the remainder of your season on a promising 18 year old and injury prone Thiago is just another dumb gamble by the club. We need to improve the odds by adding a midfielder in this window or accept 6th-10th and at least one season out of the CL next year.

7.) 22 Jan 2023
22 Jan 2023 10:55:14
I'd agree MK. He derserves more minutes!

8.) 22 Jan 2023
22 Jan 2023 11:13:50
Thiago is not wasted in the advance role. In fact he was excellent at Bayern in that role when he had Kimmich alongside him. He is a progressive midfielder first and foremost. He certainly can also play the sweeper role in the midfield. The guy is pure class in any role that you wish him to play. The reason he is sweeping at LFC is because both Fabinho and Hendo are crap today.
A midfield three of Caceido / Thiago / Baj is excellent.

9.) 22 Jan 2023
22 Jan 2023 11:31:35
Good against wolves? He’s shocking always has been, but I’m sure you can find some bias stats to show he’s been a success!

10.) 22 Jan 2023
22 Jan 2023 11:50:15
The trouble is Hulk this is not the Bundesliga this is the Premier league. Many of our midfield would look decent playing for Bayern in the Bundesliga.

11.) 22 Jan 2023
22 Jan 2023 12:07:12
I know people don't like Keita and there is good reason for that. However, I too feel like WYRED does, that he wasn't bad yesterday. The moment he left, we lost total control of the midfield and they started dominating. I won't mind a midfield of Thiago, Bajcetic and Favio/ Keita. But I don't think it works with Elliot in there. And nothing so far with Curtis anywhere!

12.) 22 Jan 2023
22 Jan 2023 12:14:46
Even with VVD'S drop in form there is no way we are better off without him! in the last three games against Brighton, Wolves and Chelsea Konate has had to carry both Matip and Gomez he really has been a superb signing. Getting him consistently playing with Virg will help. I used to be a huge Gomez fan but his regression has been huge, was superb against City but poor besides. As one of our sellable assets i would now look to move him on. Getting decent money in for Gomez and getting Skinrair on a free would be the dream.

13.) 22 Jan 2023
22 Jan 2023 12:31:58
I’m presuming that the game plan yesterday was to sit off in the first half and then press higher and up the temp in the second half, towards the Kop.
Because we certainly didn’t dominate the early stages, Chelsea were seeing all the possession.
I suppose that we’ve been spoiled over the past few years but having a rival come to your ground and take most of the game to you is now a very bitter pill.
The sooner Diaz is fit, the better because that LW is a problem at present.

14.) 22 Jan 2023
22 Jan 2023 12:49:08
Not buying one is absolutely criminal. There were lads playing in that Bournemouth v Forest game yesterday who would start for us.

15.) 22 Jan 2023
22 Jan 2023 13:00:58
If we don’t change the formation, or buy midfielders.
Nothing will change. As nothing has changed since Fulham.

16.) 22 Jan 2023
22 Jan 2023 13:30:32
Hulkamania, Thiago didn't play the advanced role for most of his Bayern career though. He was the deep lying playmaker alongside Kimmich/ Goretzka with Muller ahead of them in the advanced role. For me Thiago is one of the best deep lying playmakers in Europe as he can turn out of the press, switch the play, break the lines and contribute defensively. It's not that i think he's bad further forward, I just think his contribution from deeper has more influence on the game.

17.) 22 Jan 2023
22 Jan 2023 13:20:45
As most of you know, I have been a massive critic of our awful tactics and poor midfield planning. However, I will say that the last two games has seen us press a bit better and react to second balls. I will say that. So I will give Klopp a little break, even though he missed an obvious opportunity swap the forward positions about during the game yesterday.

Do I think it will get us back into the top 4 race? Without going into the market in the next 9 days, unfortunately not.

I still believe that adding a Caicedo or Kone into our midfield would re-energise Fabinho and re-activate Trent and Mo. That right sided no8 role is currently the bane of our season.

18.) 22 Jan 2023
22 Jan 2023 13:24:59
We definitely lost our shape when Keita came off because Nunez cam on for him, and Elliott went into midfield so we reverted to 3 across with Elliott right side and Thiago left. Elliott shouldn't be in midfield. He drifts too wide and it leaves a big hole. He's so clearly a right winger, because even when he's supposed to be in midfield he ends out drifting there. I think it was more putting Elliott into midfield that caused the issue, than taking Keita out. Keita should've been straight swapped with Carvalho in my opinion, and Nunez should've gone on for one of the forwards.

I also think that Mudryk coming on almost coincided with Keita going off and then he gave Milner a lot of problems which weren't really related to the change in midfield.

19.) 22 Jan 2023
22 Jan 2023 13:49:10
MK - 1) Carvalho has never played on the right sided no8 position and 2) he didn’t even make the bench.

20.) 22 Jan 2023
22 Jan 2023 13:53:58
I thought it was more of Mudryk coming on that turned the tide in their favour. I can't remember Keita doing anything of note during the entirety of the game actually. Granted, I only watched the second half. But Mudryk absolutely terrorized our right side. We looked a shade better after Milner came off for TAA.

21.) 22 Jan 2023
22 Jan 2023 13:56:06
Whenever I see posts like "Klopp missed an obvious opportunity" I get a mental image of a student telling Einstein he "forgot to carry the 1".
Maybe Klopp missed it because he's not at the same level of management as some of the posters on here eh?
I'm sure he'll appreciate the little break too, he must be tired of being shown up by this forum's tactical experts.

{Ed025's Note - love it flash..

22.) 22 Jan 2023
22 Jan 2023 15:00:01
this may not be a popular opinion, but I'd actually consider selling VVD in the summer and replacing him. his performance has dropped and it may be a good time to cash in.

23.) 22 Jan 2023
22 Jan 2023 15:04:35
Pelican, from how I saw the game we didn't play with a right sides 8 until Keita went off. Thiago and Baj were both sitting and Keita was pushed on but more central. It definitely went to a 3 with Elliott on the right after Keita came off and that's when it got messy as Elliott ended up too wide again and that huge hole reappeared. Keita wasn't great but the tactics were still closing up the midfield.

I know regards to Carvalho not being on the bench and this is part of my frustration. He plays well when he comes in but then isn't getting chances ahead of players who are leaving in a matter of months. He was a really good attacking midfielder at Fulham and has impressed for us on the LW with goals against City and Newcastle who don't conceded many.

24.) 22 Jan 2023
22 Jan 2023 15:05:19
Brilliant Flashthered ??.

25.) 22 Jan 2023
22 Jan 2023 15:21:23
Find it weird an actual argument can be "klopp did it so it must be right" in which case why even have a forum, or form an opinion. Klopp must be totally infallible in some minds here.

26.) 22 Jan 2023
22 Jan 2023 15:23:15
Flash - top banter in the cult.

27.) 22 Jan 2023
22 Jan 2023 15:40:05
It is tiresome on here of late seeing people twist other words and offer up overtly obtuse responses (or trolling as it's known) rather than daring to have original thoughts of there own. Well said DeanW.

28.) 22 Jan 2023
22 Jan 2023 14:15:24
Exactly flash. Klopp the novice. City fans are probably saying the same about Pep?.

29.) 22 Jan 2023
22 Jan 2023 14:21:33
Flash - sorry for your loss.

30.) 22 Jan 2023
22 Jan 2023 15:04:14
I agree about van Dijk but he has to play. We look vulnerable on set pieces and never look like scoring from them.
It is about becoming harder to beat because the team is unrecognisable from the ones of the past few years.
All three areas of the team are a lot weaker. We are missing Mane, even though he was on the decline, far more than I thought we would. That hasn't been helped by losing Diaz, as well.
The summer will be a bigger rebuild than I thought because the new signings and youngsters are still finding their feet.
We can go on a run to get top four but we need some more players to stand up and be counted.
I think Nunez could and I'm hoping that he could ignite Salah, as well.
And the sooner van Dijk is back, the better.

31.) 22 Jan 2023
22 Jan 2023 16:19:04
MK - I hear you.

32.) 22 Jan 2023
22 Jan 2023 18:01:16
Right side center mid should be rotated between Henderson and Milner for the time being, assuming we don't sign someone. Keita isn't the answer cos he can't be bothered. Elliot isn't the answer because he doesn't know how to play the position and every game he plays there is costing us, and more importantly damaging his confidence imo. Unless Fabs regains form and go into the pivot and free up Bajcetic for RCM, that leaves Hendo and Milner. I'd like to see would Hendo look at least a bit more like his old self with a confident Bajcetic, and the team attempting to press again in a proper shape rather than a struggling Fabs and a mess of a system.

Guess we could try Jones either. Although he's only ever played on the left hand side, and knowing his luck will get injured again.

33.) 22 Jan 2023
22 Jan 2023 18:29:25
Something Red, are you really lobbying for Henderson to play in the position that he has been murdering this season? Did you watch the Brighton game? Am I missing something?

I don’t like Keita but he’s much better than this version of Henderson in that position.

34.) 22 Jan 2023
22 Jan 2023 19:00:48
I would contend that Henderson hasn't murdered the right central mid position, simply because he hasn't actually played it that much this season in order to murder it. Because up until the Wolves Cup replay, we haven't played with a straight midfield three, we keep tweaking it with one midfielder drifting out to the flank or pushing up into the #10 role. You mention the Brighton game. In that game, Henderson and Fabinho played as two DMs with Thiago miles ahead in the #10 position and the defence not pushed up properly to compress the pitch. The system was a mess and left huge gaps, and whilst I'm not here to defend underperforming players, I don't think any midfielder on the planet would've made it work. I said as much at the time.

It's exactly those sort of weird tactical tweaks we've been pulling all season that got discarded in the last two games and made us look more organised. Bajcetic also helps. I would therefore suggest that maybe the Brighton game isn't the best barometer of how someone will play as right central midfielder in a three, seeing as we didn't set up with a system that used that position.

The only midfielder apart from Thiago (and he comes with a caveat) and Bajcetic you could begin to describe as 'in form' is Milner. But he'll struggle if he has to play two games in a week at 37, even if subbed at 60 minutes. So we at least someone to rotate with him. Keita is not the answer, he will disappear out of it for large swathes of games exactly like he did yesterday and on Tuesday. I do not accept he's a better option than anybody who's able to run. Elliot isn't a midfielder. Ox is finished. Fabs is in even worse from than Hendo. So unless Arthur comes back and fits seamlessly straight into a team that's barely been able to play with, or we sign someone (looking unlikely), we're down to Hendo and Jones, I think.

That's how I see it. Other people's mileage may vary, and that's fine.

But we will see Hendo back in the starting XI at some point in the next couple of weeks regardless of what you or I think. Likely Fabinho too. Hopefully they'll get it together when picked.

35.) 22 Jan 2023
22 Jan 2023 19:53:53
Apology accepted Pelican.
I'm not exactly sure what you're apologising for, but it keeps us both happy.

36.) 23 Jan 2023
23 Jan 2023 01:34:44
At last someone else has seen that Keita makes a difference in the midfield. It really is no coincidence that we have had 2 clean sheets in the games he’s started.
I’m not saying he’s brilliant or that we should keep him but of the options we have right now he has to start.
He plugs gaps in the midfield by playing tucked in keeping the midfield tight and more difficult to play through.
He does a much better job defensively than Thiago who tends to go to sleep and drift too far forward and wide leaving a hole in behind him. Elliott just plays from a wide position which blocks Trent and Salah’s effectiveness and leaves the midfield wide open.
Right now we need solidity and we 100% lost control in midfield when Keita went off but we don’t like Keita do we so we’ll just make up another reason why that happened.
Just give the guy some credit and support and wave him off in the summer. Is that so hard?

37.) 23 Jan 2023
23 Jan 2023 07:27:27
Not at all Beckers, i literally said 2 days ago on here that Thiago, Baj and Keita is our best midfield now. I can find Keita frustrating and still think that though. All i've suggested is Carvalho gets a chance there off the bench. I'd not drop Keita though. Tactically it worked even if individually he wasn't at his best.

38.) 23 Jan 2023
23 Jan 2023 09:51:06
I would go with Fabinho, Baj and Keita myself. Thiago is a player that needs space to play and when we were at our best teams would sit back so he got it. Now teams are prepared to come onto us he becomes a liability as he tries to do too much and loses the ball way too often in his own half.
He frustrates me because he’s got everything but he just doesn’t seem to have it between the ears to realise the situation we are in. We can’t afford to gift the opposition easy chances but with him on the pitch it happens all too often.