30 Dec 2024 21:49:27
Will Amorim last till summer?
30 Dec 2024 22:11:57
that 1st half was the worst i've seen those lot play under any manager, newcastle were decent but were made to look like Prime Brazil! I hope we go all in and smash the sh** out of them.
30 Dec 2024 22:50:45
Amorim needs to change his tactics if he is to survive. unless he can buy 4 or 5 players at least now in Jan, which is unlikely
If he continues with his system of 3-2-4-1 or whatever it is, then he won't last without reinforcements.
30 Dec 2024 23:25:42
Has any team been successful playing 3 at the back in the PL? And I’d don’t mean a one season wonder. Just doesn’t feel like a tactic that works over here. If Amorim is sticking with that based on the performances and personnel he has available then I reckon we dodged a massive bullet there, stubborn for stubborn’s sake.
30 Dec 2024 23:48:52
3 at the back is basically what Man City played when they had Cancelo/ Stones next to Rodri in midfield and dominated for years.
Spurs also did well under Poch with Dier in DM splitting their CB’s and it becoming a back 3 in practice that allowed Rose and Walker/ Trippier to push really high.
Nuno played it at Wolves and got into Europe with a very average team. Jonny and Doherty are rank average full backs but were purpose built for wing back.
Brentford have played it on/ off for years and punched well above their weight with multiple Championship level players.
Conte won the league at Chelsea with run of the mill dross like Alonso and Moses as the wing backs playing with his preferred back 3.
It can definitely work in England but it does absolutely require the right players. Something United don’t have. It’s allegedly the reason we didn’t press for Amorim as well. Apparently it was decided our squad options didn’t fit his philosophy.
30 Dec 2024 23:55:09
Roy Evans team of mid 90s done well with a back 3. Mcateer/ jones/ byornabye the wing backs. A top class goalie short of winning couple of leagues.
{Ed001's Note - it was a few more players short than that. I love John Barnes, but he was done by then, yet he had to play in the centre of midfield because of a lack of options. We defo needed to replace him at that time. The centre-backs were also an issue, not sure any of them were suited to the style of play, maybe Mark Wright.}
31 Dec 2024 00:14:56
MKS, all you said would make sense if we were dealing with another club with a diff. squad of players, both of whom have or act like they have some damn sense. With Utd it doesn't matter what coach nor formation they play cos that squad of players is absolutely toxic or what we call in the NFL, "a Coach Killer". Doesn't matter who they hire, that squad will eventually fail him, IMO.
The fact that Rashford has been recalled back to the squad after Amorim came out telling everyone that he didn't need him anymore, just tells you the state of affairs within that squad. Amorim is in over his head (happy we picked Slot over him) and could mess around and find out the same way his predecessors did.
Oh, And Im here for ALL of it, btw.
31 Dec 2024 00:22:20
I bow to your better knowledge if I’m wrong MK but I’d say of all of the teams you’ve mentioned the only one that actually played 3 at the back with wingbacks was Chelsea under Conte and it worked for a season.
The others might have transitioned to 3 at the back when in possession but they lined up as a back 4 with a 6 in front that would drop when in possession or one fullback goes and the other tucks in as a 3rd CB.
There have been loads, too many to count that have toyed with the 3 at the back in certain situations (West Ham did it on Sunday for the 2nd half) but not many that have ever been consistently successful by using it all of the time.
Even Evans’ side in the 90s wasn’t particularly successful. Evans never won the league or really ever came close.
Formations are mostly fluid with players having different positions depending on what’s happening in the game but those that line up as a 343 or 352 or 532 or any other variation generally don’t win things.
There’s always exceptions of course but I don’t think Utd are that right now.
31 Dec 2024 00:27:29
I think if schemical hadve been our keeper instead of james I think we would've won a league r 2 around that time ed1 imo . We had some v good players at time.
{Ed001's Note - no way, too many bottlers in that team. Particularly redknapp.}
31 Dec 2024 07:24:33
Beckers, Wolves under Nuno and Brentford under Frank both mainly played a starting position formation 3-5-2 or 3-4-3 with great success given their level. Jota and Jimenez (sometimes with Traore) and Toney and Mbuemo (sometimes with Wissa) really thrived off the tactics.
City played a starting position line-up of 3-2-4-1 for most of last season and won the league. When it was Cancelo the years prior though that was a back 4 with Cancelo inverting tbf.
I’ll give you Spurs though as that was a 4-3-3 on paper, but it morphed into some sort of 3-4-2-1 in possession only. The rest absolutely had a back 3 as their starting positions though.
31 Dec 2024 08:14:58
I think the main reason back 3’s fail is because managers who believe in it come in and try to immediately make it work rather than take their time. So it’s very rare they walk in and have the right players. Conte got lucky as nobody would’ve predicted Moses would be a good RWB or that Azpilicueta would’ve been a world class CB in a 3. We probably all saw Rudiger, Kante, Hazard and Alonso doing well in the system but a few other things also fell into place quite nicely for Conte straight off the bat. Ultimately we don’t know if Conte would have sustained the success because he fell out with everyone like he always does. But his Chelsea remain one of the highest points tally Champions in Prem history so he proved that Amorims system can work and win trophies here in my opinion.
It’s just really tricky to implement because you need quite a few very specific things. First off you need at least 2 CB’s who are comfortable being dragged into 1v1’s with fast wingers in wide areas. Secondly, with everyone else obsessing over getting an extra man into midfield nowadays, you need to have 2 really mobile midfielders (or Kante who can run for 2) so as to avoid being dominated in midfield. Then you need Wing backs who are capable of scoring and creating goals so you don’t become blunt and too narrow. Lastly you need wingers who are comfortable being forced infield to create space for the wing backs and therefore capable of operating almost as a No.10 at times.
Man United are missing too many cogs for Amorims machine to work and it’s concerning for him as a manager that he’s too stubborn to see that. They have no CB’s good in 1v1 situations and no natural wing backs who carry a threat. Mainoo and Ugarte are their only mobile midfielders but they’re mid table players at best. Mount and Diallo are the only wingers who suit inverting into the 10 positions but one is injury prone, and the other has only ever sustained good form at Championship level. So this makes them easy to score against and easy to defend against. Recipe for disaster at any level of football.
31 Dec 2024 08:15:36
Utd looked awful first half last night and not much better in the 2nd half.
I was quite impressed with Newcastle First 35 mins but not so much after that.
If we play to put potential on Sunday it could be another hammering for them.
I’m not sure if Utd looking so bad coming into this game is a good or bad thing for us.
31 Dec 2024 10:24:59
In their defence (pun intended ?), United could play a different midfield on Sunday. Mainoo could start and Fernandes and Ugarte are back from suspension.
Also, Zirkzee probably won't start which is unfortunate for us.
Anyway, I'm going to stay humble and be content with the three points ?.
31 Dec 2024 10:47:22
Let’s be humble. The 90s were mainly a bad time. Houllier came in and turned us into trophy winners after a lean 5-6 years.
31 Dec 2024 10:50:58
Rigsby I agree mate.
I should have actually added to my comment
If we play to our potential on Sunday it could be another hammering for them.
“But we know that’s not how things work”
Utd were poor last year and they frustrated out of us on more than one occasion.
31 Dec 2024 11:17:29
And I agree with you, JK.
My post was more about them not having to play Eriksen, Casemiro and Zirkzee.
We could still hammer them but I'll take a comfortable 2-0 and a second half stroll to keep some freshness in our legs.
31 Dec 2024 11:26:51
Rigsby agree. I’d be happy with any kind of win.
But also I’m going to the game though so selfishly I want another 7-0 at least.
31 Dec 2024 15:20:13
You got it JK23, on the Phone with Arne now! He is unsure about 7, but promises at least 5!