21 Jul 2025 00:08:59
A question for people living in Liverpool. iv seen people here say they've no interest in the English national team. Is it because of thatchers treatment of Hillsborough disaster. I like to think it's the Irish integration. i was told in school (dublin) the scouse accent came from a mix of Irish immigrants influencing the local English accent.
{Ed078's Note - It's been a while since I lived in Liverpool, but my "Scouse not English" sentiment has only grown over the years. I'd say it goes back much further than Hillsborough, the managed decline of the city, the demonisation of Scousers by the rest of the country also play a part.
My ancestry is Irish and my accent is often mistaken for Irish, the intonations, pitches, tempo and emphasis being similar.
When I'm asked where I'm from, I always answer Liverpool. They then say, Oh England, and I always respond, no Liverpool, it just happens to be attached to England.
I know this view is becoming less popular, fair enough. Maybe England playing their games in London is also a factor?
21 Jul 2025 01:50:27
I’m from The Wirral but my parents were born and bred in Bootle and moved to The Wirral during Thatcher’s managed decline.
I’m too young to really remember but my parents and Grandparents were always dead against the government and saw themselves as above being part of that sh! te country.
I think for many, especially those who grew up in the 60s, Liverpool was the heart of everything. A thriving music scene with the Beatles and Merseybeat to the biggest docks in the country to the best football team in Europe. So to then witness Thatcher allowing the City to fall into rack and ruin seemed like the end of the known universe.
They were literally left to starve or leave by their own country so you can understand the bitterness they felt towards it. That has now been passed down the generations so I too despise the government (though that is more for the things they’ve done in more recent times) and I couldn’t care less about the national team either.
When or if I can be bothered to watch England I just pray that any Liverpool players don’t get injured or that they play really well to bring that form back to Anfield. The score is completely irrelevant to me.
I also think football is more tribal these days so it’s very difficult to hate Harry Kane one week and support him the next. I can’t help feeling disappointment if Kane scores or Pickford makes a good save. Cheering for those guys amongst others just isn’t in me!
21 Jul 2025 02:18:11
Fascinating learning more about this stuff Ed078. I'm a Chilean living in Australia for half my life so don't really know this side of things.
{Ed078's Note - The only place I've found with a similar attitude is Glasgow, but that was just a 2 month experience so could have misread.
Where in Aus are you? I'm in QLD.
21 Jul 2025 06:10:43
Irisheric
Lots of people from Liverpool ( like myself) do support England.
I’m English and an England fan and not ashamed to say so.
I love my country and my National team, and I know lots of other people who feel the same.
{Ed078's Note - like I said, my view is becoming less popular.
21 Jul 2025 06:27:30
Its the government we don't really support . the milk snatcher Thatcher was by far the worst iv lived through. they more or less discarded us, we had Derek Hatton borrowing money from abroad to help us run the city etc . that's why we boo the national anthem . then we obviously had Hillsborough. its a continuation of bias against us, that many outsiders don't get . but i do support England in other sports just not football. plus the majority of English football fans sing about us being this n that.
21 Jul 2025 06:25:16
I don’t think it’s becoming less popular. I personally wouldn’t wrap myself round the English flag with its history of poor treatment of our city and also let’s face it the rest of the world. This country is one of the main contributing factors why the majority of the world lives in poverty and in conflict.
Therefore I am very much scouse not English!
Lots of love
Playboi
PS also living in Oz atm in Melbourne haha.
{Ed078's Note - but, err, we gave them, like, civilisation and stuff.....
21 Jul 2025 07:43:03
I'm from Scotland and follow liverpool never would follow England not that I'm anti England it's the media saying that England are one of the favourites to win anything they enter last week the media had Italy playing England in the semi finals before the Sweden game which is disrespectful to thier opponents and before anyone says or thinks anything. my best mate in the army was a scouser.
21 Jul 2025 08:26:26
Some good points, there.
Another is that in the 70s and 80s when fans started actually following England home and abroad, Liverpool fans already had the opportunities to travel around Europe.
If you were a fan of Port Vale, say, following England was your only chance of foreign travel and major competitions.
The difference was that we were actually winning things and that irked many other fans, too ?.
I also believe that there is a similar element amongst United fans.
They got to do it, too, and their success and huge fanbase meant they were often unpopular.
There a lot of similarities between us politically and socially despite the fierce rivalry.
One of the best banners ever is the 'Them Scousers again'. It showed the attitude of Scousers and attitudes towards Scousers.
21 Jul 2025 08:43:09
I’m in the thick of it ( Liverpool) I’m Scouse not English. It’s still thriving as far as I can see.
More so now with that tit Starmer going back on his word regards the “Hillsborough law” they don’t like us they can’t pull the wool over our eyes.
21 Jul 2025 08:25:16
If you want to know where the initial detachment stems from, look up the Great Unrest 1910-1914. The Liverpudlians were striking due to poor working conditions/ pay. The governments reaction? They stationed 2 warships in the River Mersey as a threat, and flooded the City with soldiers. There was even an incident where a cavalry division opened fire on a crowd of protesters, killing 2 people.
Following on from that, during the Northern Ireland conflict, the British army committed multiple atrocities over a 30 year period that are best not spoken about, and the Liverpool population has significant links to Ireland due to the proximity. Over 3,500 people were killed (not all by the army to be fair) during the conflict.
Then there were government plans leaked, to put the City of Liverpool into a "managed decline". This led to the extreme poverty and the rest of the country calling Scousers "bin dippers" because there were images of kids rifling through bins as they were so hungry. Real classy mocking starving children. Who knows how many people died from the poverty.
Then you had the Hillsborough disaster where the English media tore the people of Liverpool to pieces and dragged them through the dirt with pure lies. Not to mention the government cover up which still hasn't been rectified, with the current government voting against the Hillsborough law. 97 people unlawfully killed and the government still won't support justice.
I honestly cannot blame anybody from Liverpool for feeling detached from the rest of England. The more you read about how the people have been treated, the more you sympathise. Of course though, these things happened 30+ years ago so the younger generations in Liverpool probably don't feel quite the same way, but I'm not even from Liverpool and it makes me feel sick what they've been put through. How many people have to die due to government and military incompetence/ brutality before it's acceptable to say "I don't feel English"?
21 Jul 2025 09:17:55
I went from Manchester to Yorkshire, back to Manchester and was always skeptical how i would be treated due to skin colour, then was amazed when I met the people in Liverpool, genuinely amazing nice people, loved it.
21 Jul 2025 09:26:18
Im Yorkshire not English. When everything stops being about London i might change my mind but i doubt it.
21 Jul 2025 10:52:18
I am not scouse, I just find international football boring and an annoyance, the nations league and qualifiers just get in the way of the main club season and should be separate in my view. I like the WC and euros and will always want England to win but I just don’t really care that much, I have much more affinity for my club team.
{Ed025's Note - im with you MOT..
21 Jul 2025 10:54:41
Nice Ed078, I'm in Brisbane, best city in Australia in my unbiased opinion haha. Absolutely love it here.
{Ed025's Note - nice city and a great country Gregarious...pity you are crap at Rugby Union though mate.. :)
21 Jul 2025 07:31:21
Where in QLD Ed078, also in QLD.
{Ed078's Note - Hervey Bay mate, with a place on Bribie. 2 sons in Brisbane.