16 May 2025 03:58:38
It can really irk me how the English press and even the larger public will reflexively do anything they can to diminish what Liverpool do, and it's so muscle memorised they don't even realise they're doing it.
Liverpool lost Jurgen Klopp and against all conventional expectations Slot won the league in his first year with virtually no recruitments.
It's an obvious testament to the club's organisational efficacy and continuity, and yet the narrative is predictably flipped into a Klopp vs Slot debate to infer any sense of diminishment they can.
This is why Liverpool is historically more impressive than Man Utd. We aren't a one man club that falls to pieces when a once in a generation figurehead moves on, we're a well oiled machine that thrives on continuity forward thinking, and we keep the party going. So its not luck or coincidence that Liverpool hasn't placed below 8th or 10th (can't remember) since the 1960s.
{Ed078's Note - some say it's the "scouse not english" mentality, others think it's a London centric media attitude.
16 May 2025 07:37:35
8th it is nick and when u think of it that some record in a league like England which so competing traditionally.60 odd years and never finished lower than 8th!
16 May 2025 07:55:20
It's an impressive achievement isn't it Digger. We are also first in the all time English points table and we have been for decades.
We've been a consistent club since the 1960s. We won league titles in the 60s, 70s, 80s and now the 2020s. And we were still competitive for most of 30 year league drought. We won domestic cups, the champions league, the UEFA cup and went very far in many other champions league campaigns.
No other English club comes remotely close to our continuity and it's all by design.
Man Utd, on the other hand, are a brand first and club second. If it weren't for the residual commercial power they'd have been relegated after Fergie left, because they never had our level of football infrastructure, or an ethos beyond 'play the kids'
16 May 2025 08:08:17
And yet Trent want to go to Madrid @NIck.
16 May 2025 08:22:05
We're talking about the club as a whole, not a singular transient employee of the club. We've had numerous personnel changes since the 60s and we're still going strong now. Trent leaving won't change that.
16 May 2025 08:22:27
I'm not sure how to quantify all of this in a way where we can definitively say who has been a bigger club between us or Man Utd in terms of continuity. Because how far back do you go? We were relegated in 1954 for example.
However what I would say is that there has been a huge step change in the last 3 years since EtH took over at Man Utd. He is the single worst thing ever to happen to that club because he has filled the squad with players who just are not good enough, and pretty much burned all the money at the club in the process. He created an excuse/ blame culture as well and stripped the identity out of the club. Now Sir Jim is stripping the morals/ soul out of the club to try and repair the financial damage.
Liverpool have had some bad managers down the years but we haven't dropped below 8th place since being promoted back to the top flight in 1962. I think Man United have had their Leeds/ Ipswich moment. Sometimes, the damage done is so severe that there's no telling how far the club can fall. Would it shock me to see Man United relegated in my lifetime? If they don't win the Europa League I think they're on that path. They need that Champions League money, desperately.
{Ed025's Note - you could be right MK...."come on Spurs".. :)
16 May 2025 08:33:05
The press need to sell papers. What better way to do it than print utter crap that they know gullible folks will flock to buy?
16 May 2025 08:06:21
Ed078 i think it's a mix of both and more. Arsenal and Chelsea always get excitable coverage in the media when they show promising signs, and we can't ignore that there's still sone prejudice with Scousers in England, because Scousers don't toe the line like everyone else. I think there's another reason for the Liverpool hate but I can't be bothered opening up that can of worms.
16 May 2025 08:47:41
Mk the problems at United are explained by far deeper things than ETH.
Fergie ran every aspect of their football and he didn't create an infrastructure to let the club survive without him like Shankly did, and it seems that Busby didn't do that either.
Since the 60sn we've won the league and CL with Shankly, Paisley, Fagan, Dalglish as a fkn player manager, Rafa, Klopp and now Slot. We won a cup treble with Houllier and even nearly won the league with Rodgers.
16 May 2025 08:53:10
There really isn't any excuse for United's demise and that's even despite the Glazers, as they've still found the money to spend big sums on flops.
Maybe Fergie should've forgotten about his ego and legacy for one second, and put more thought into a better succession plan than handing the keys to Moyeseh. Fergie was their entire infrastructure.
16 May 2025 09:22:15
Nick, I agree the issues go a lot deeper, but before EtH I always felt that the damage was reversible. However, he signed some truly awful players on huge wages for massive fees. He overspent to such an extent on players with such little resale value that United now lack the funds to buy their way of the hole like they've done in the past.
Antony, Casemiro, Onana, Martinez, Mount, De Ligt, Zirkzee, Hojlund etc are all bang average players who they'll recoup little to nothing for, comparative to what they paid. Even his better signings like Yoro and Ugarte are vastly over rated players who cost way more than they should have, as the club got desperate. EtH has absolutely buried them. They backed the wrong horse and unfortunately for them they stuck their life savings on him!
The stark contrast in the fortunes between us and United right now are going to redefine the debate as to who is the bigger club. Because we're just about ready to really kick on with a group of great young players led by some living legends, and they're in need of 9 new players to give their only 2 good enough players (Amad Diallo and Bruno Fernandes) some much needed support on the pitch.
16 May 2025 09:44:41
@Nick is spot on. For me, Fergie was both the saviour and the destroyer of Man U. He had the success which people rightly talk about but his power within the club ran so deep that when he left the club fell apart and they are still trying to repair the damaged caused by Fergie's influence.
I believe that that is why people expected us to fall apart in the same way. Klopp was obviously a saviour and he put us back on our perch but his influence had grown beyond his initial remit and there are certainly some aspects of the business that are now working hard to realign with the clubs vision following his exit but imagine how much deeper that influence would have run had Klopp stayed for a further decade. I think it is also why we hired Slot as a head coach and not a manager.
16 May 2025 09:57:14
Who cares we are the champions and most successful team in England are we not?
16 May 2025 09:50:19
man u were relegated in 1974!
16 May 2025 09:53:04
Am I missing something with all this "Liverpool hate". I'm not from Merseyside and folk where I live don't hate us. The media that I see and read are pretty fair. What does get on folks nerves when I talk to people, is that some Liverpool supporters think they're hated, which isn't the case. Well, no more than other clubs I won't care to mention.
16 May 2025 11:22:36
@Rome, one can always find negatives if one goes looking for them. There is no vendetta against Liverpool. Like you, these days I live outside of Liverpool - a long way outside and it brings a different perspective. It’s getting airplay at the moment because apart from ‘he who cannot be named’, things are looking reasonably healthy at the club.
16 May 2025 12:46:36
MK it was not all down to ETH it was the day fergie left his job the players have run man u from that day on they have had two managers josey and van gaul who have won everything could not change the mind set of the board and players as josey said coming second with man u was his biggest achievment! . The club is in a mess that will take years to resolve like us they may win a trophy or two but they have a full rebuild behind the scene so blaming ETH is wrong he won trophies the players let him down ratchford biggest example bad apple big. Jim running man u like he runs inneos two complete diffrent companies and by the way inneos in big debt around 12 billion.
17 May 2025 05:27:41
@rome1977 the Scouser prejudice isn't universal (it used to be) but you still won't search for too long to find people holding the sentiment. Liverpool cops more derogatory chants about their city than any other team.
@MK maybe the damage was reversible but I'm talking about what created that damage in the first place. ETH failed because of the same reasons that created their downward spiral.
They've spent, if I'm guessing, between 1 and 2bn pounds on recruitment since 2013 and yet how many of those recruits have returned any value? Bruno Fernandes if you're being generous?
Notwithstanding his botched go at it with us, Graeme Souness has always said that recruitment is the most important thing to get right, and to get recruitment right the club needs to know what it's doing. Excluding Busby and Fergie, United don't know what they're doing. A club that recruits well is a club that is run well.
Liverpool has always been competitive because they are traditionally good at recruitment (including the academy) . Look at the amount of superstar goalscorers we've had between 1990 and 2020 despite the inferior spending power. Fowler, Owen, Torres, Suarez, Mane and Salah.
United have the commercial savvy but we've got the football savvy.