03 Jan 2023 21:54:50
If Ed001 is about would love your opinion

Hearing a lot of talk about how Pep Ljinders is having more input and influence over the tactics and way we are playing which is less about gegenpressing and more about keeping the ball without the intensity

Was wondering how and why Pep has started having more influence?

And whether these tactics have marked a real change from last season where were a couple of goals away from the quadruple? What has gone wrong in such a short space of time? Or more to the point why has it gone wrong when the group of players are largely the same

Thanks for your time.

{Ed001's Note - Klopp wanted to take a step back and gradually fade out of the picture and hand over the reigns. I believe this will be his last club job and he is looking to go into retirement, with maybe the Germany job as an option. The stress on him is heavy and he has always promised his wife he would back off a bit because of it. The problem is that it just isn't working. Klopp is all about intensity and without it, without that all in attitude, something big is missing.}

1.) 04 Jan 2023
04 Jan 2023 04:55:33
Thanks Ed0001, i think you hit nail exactly. I see the players merely going through the motion.

{Ed001's Note - I love Klopp and I don't see a potential replacement out there is the worry. Lijnders certainly isn't my choice as things have gone downhill since his ego got stuck in the doorway. In fact I would think the club would benefit from replacing him. However if it is all too much for Klopp and he needs to call time on his managerial career, then he deserves to retire with our thanks for a wonderful job brilliantly done. I hope that he will just assert greater control though and go back to being the man.}

2.) 04 Jan 2023
04 Jan 2023 05:00:59
Hi ed 001, are you saying Pep Ljinders are doing all the damage to our high octane heavy metal football behind scene, while asking Klopp to face media and clean up all his shxt! Manz, that Pep Ljinders must go, ok last season almost quadruple, big deal, football is only as good as the last game.

{Ed001's Note - Klopp makes the decisions Lee. He is the one letting Pep have more control and going with Pep's ideas on tactics over his own. I know he felt the team needed to evolve to compete and I agree. But for me the evolution, for now at least, needed to be to play the way we were playing better, not to change to a different style. Klopp's style is exciting and great to watch even when results are not there. This more measured style is not fun to watch and the results are terrible. For me Klopp should go with what he knows and look to get better at that. Then we can become believers once more, because I am struggling to have belief in this style. The whole reason Klopp came up with his gegenpress style was to counter exactly what he is now letting us become. I want our Klopp back and his Klopp football too!}

3.) 04 Jan 2023
04 Jan 2023 05:42:47
Thanks for the info Ed, clearly Pep’s way isn’t working but he’s not the one to blame. Klopp is the man in charge he needs take back control and if that ruffles a few feathers so be it, ultimately it’s his responsibility.

{Ed001's Note - exactly. Though it must be said Pep does need his feathers ruffled, his ego has exploded. A good reality check could do him the world of good in the long term to allow him to take stock and realise that he is not the omniscient genius that was responsible for all Liverpool's recent triumphs. He is constantly taking the credit and Klopp is too willing to allow him to, when Pep was just a small part of the team. Lijnders was an excellent coach with potential, but now he is in danger of not reaching his potential. I thought his setback when he first left the club might have been enough to keep his ego in check. Unfortunately it seems to have already been forgotten and glossed over as not his fault.}

4.) 04 Jan 2023
04 Jan 2023 06:20:04
This is fascinating reading, Ed, so thanks.
What are the main causes as to why it’s so stressful for him? Yes, Liverpool are a massive club with high expectations (recent expectations created through Klopp’s brilliance), but we know what Klopp is and how good he is - he has the backing of every Liverpool fan out there. The influence this man has had on Liverpool becoming/ remaining a world class club despite the current football landscape will only be realized once he’s gone.
Is it down to having to constantly fight against a limitless Manchester City managed by another great coach (nowhere near Klopp’s ability but still great)? Or maybe having to balance expectations with the fact that Liverpool are a football club run as a football club? Or just his managerial style and the influence he needs to have to achieve it’s aims?

{Ed001's Note - it is because he is so intense. It creates huge personal pressure on him because he lives and breathes it. It was the same with Shankly. They both had their release valves of family, but sometimes that pressure can be carried back and affect family life too. I think he would be the same whatever he did. Some people are just like that, they do everything at 100%, whether it is sweeping the floor or running a football club. They are always at full tilt.}

5.) 04 Jan 2023
04 Jan 2023 06:55:50
It's both sad and concerning that Klopp is winding down. If his hearts not in the job anymore though it'll be very hard to flick a switch back to 2018 passion levels. I wonder if he'd take Ward's job at the end of the season and maybe we could go get a better option than Lijnders to run the day to day coaching.

6.) 04 Jan 2023
04 Jan 2023 06:57:10
To be honest ED1, i can't think of any assistant manager that has got the kind of attention that he got. I think it started with that Barcelona semi final interview.

Him explaining about tactics like he is the one responsible for winning that match. After that he did countless of interview and releasing book. Its like he want to take credits for our success.

What do you make of Carragher comment calling out Pep few days ago ED1? I don't think it will go well with the club especially Klopp.

{Ed001's Note - Lijnders got far too much of the credit, he loved the spotlight too much.

It is nice to see Carra has finally woken up to it and about time he said something. If only he had said it sooner rather than after everyone has told him about it.}

7.) 04 Jan 2023
04 Jan 2023 07:45:49
I saw a worrying chart yesterday that shows how liverpool have gone from 1st last season in distance covered, sprints without the ball and sprints with the ball to 16th, 15th and 14th or something in those categories this season. That shows where the problem is. Maybe we could step back abit from 1st in those to 4th or 5th to implement a new style but 16th in distance covered is a massive drop off and change and one that is clearly not working.

8.) 04 Jan 2023
04 Jan 2023 08:20:07
As regards stresses for managers of lfc, u only have look at photo of them day they come in and a photo 3r4 years later to see the stresses it entails. As regards linders it does seem that we grooming him to be next manager.

9.) 04 Jan 2023
04 Jan 2023 08:21:13
Surely the bad performances and results would make Klopp aware it’s not working given he lives and breathes the club day in and day out. If he waits much longer the season will be a total write off. He needs to wake up.

10.) 04 Jan 2023
04 Jan 2023 08:00:40
He introduced high dose Caffeine (doping) to Jurgen, after his stint in Holland as a manager. This propelled the golden age.

11.) 04 Jan 2023
04 Jan 2023 08:05:32
Whoever is in charge it changes nothing. We don’t have the players to press the ball. Pep has brought the wrong players and allowed the midfield to be over the hill. Pep is having a shocker.

12.) 04 Jan 2023
04 Jan 2023 08:29:09
Well this is depressing. My concerns began when we signed Thiago and started tucking Trent infield and forcing Hendo to cover even larger distances as he aged. Always found that curious.

I liked the high line and the way we looked to pin the opposition. But that relied on an effective counterpress - which is now gone.

I can’t imagine any team without intensity winning the premier league when it’s all about pace and power. Has that ever been the case?

13.) 04 Jan 2023
04 Jan 2023 07:41:09
We are missing a trick taxi for Pepa and enter Stevie G, get the fans back on board, and with it the Anfield iron, perfect long term replacment for Klopp and has got ice in his veins, beer in the fridge rather than yoghurt all day.

14.) 04 Jan 2023
04 Jan 2023 07:42:22
What did Carra say Ed? Sorry, I must of missed it.

{Ed001's Note - I am only going by what has been said on here, as I haven't seen it either.}

15.) 04 Jan 2023
04 Jan 2023 07:56:00
Thanks for your reply ed

With Carra calling him out and some articles appearing in the press about Ljinders influence, hopefully a bit more spotlight on him might make Klopp and others at the club look at his position.

16.) 04 Jan 2023
04 Jan 2023 08:42:19
There must be solid science behind this change of approach though Ed?
Klopp’s not just going to do that on a whim, he recruits a team of knowledge and expertise and I get the impression that his ship is run consensually rather than autocratically?
I’m playing Devils Advocate here because, like you, I loved the high press / full on style.
I can see the sense of having different ways of playing though, it doesn’t need to be full-on all the time. We do seem to be lacking several players for a higher tempo game at the moment though but it will be interesting to see what this and the next transfer window brings. I’m encouraged by the signings, quick, athletic younger players in the main.
The drop off from last season has been marked however.

{Ed001's Note - football is not really a solid science, so no there is no solid science behind it. It is theory. The theory is that the high press quick attacks is too much work to keep up season after season without being able to refresh the squad. Getting more control of the ball allows the players to rest their legs more. Which I understand. Everytime the team failed to win, it was always blamed on the style of play, even when it wasn't always about that.

For me, I think you can achieve the same results by playing the Klopp way and then, in games when you get a good couple of goals ahead sitting back more and playing on the counter. It was winning us trophies playing like that. I think that the only thing that should have been done is to look to play that way to an even better level. To find ways to hit faster and harder early in games. Plan B, imo, should have been to do Plan A better.}

17.) 04 Jan 2023
04 Jan 2023 08:52:48
I understand a progression to possession football but we haven't got the players to do it. If we had Xavi and Iniesta, we could do it.
And we haven't got the players to run as we were doing a few seasons ago.
The comparison with Arsenal has been mentioned a few times and it does worry me. They went from a great side with pace and power with Adams, Viera, Petit, Bergkamp, Henry etc to just being soft. I never understood why Wenger tried to be Barcelona.
I'm sure teams know they can get at us and Elliott, Caravalho, Bajcetic etc are not going to change that.

18.) 04 Jan 2023
04 Jan 2023 08:59:31
We never start fast now. I completely agree come out all guns blazing so full throttle for 30 minutes in most games you would be 1 or 2 up and the opposition shell shocked. Manage the game till HT. Go again hard for 20 mins then starts making the changes. You win things playing like that imo.

19.) 04 Jan 2023
04 Jan 2023 09:06:24
A real shame that this was not solved during the Dubai training camp. If anything, they doubled down on what was not working.

I suppose it will all come out in the wash eventually. Klopp is loyal and wouldn't do a Brendan and throw Pep under the bus. like he did with his mate Colin. He's also well liked by FSG as he was their choice.

If asked about it by the press, I predict Klopp will get defensive. Not looking forward to seeing that happen. It could get messy.

More importantly though, what an unnecessary mess and impact on our immediate footballing aspirations. Frustrating.

20.) 04 Jan 2023
04 Jan 2023 09:13:01
It's true markp08 - since the start of last season, we go into games feeling out the opposition on the pitch and then reacting to find solutions in game. I get that seasoned pros can do this and a useeful ability to have at points in the season but taking a reactive approach 100% of the time is exhausting and it has clearly taken the bombast out of our game.

The days when we used to take the game away from you with 5 minutes of devastation are totally gone. Everything is controlled and calibrated to the way the opposition is playing.

It's all very meh and not Liverpool or Klopp at all. And it's boring to watch.

21.) 04 Jan 2023
04 Jan 2023 09:19:54
Cheers Ed.
Yes the slow starts are killing us, it completely undoes any chance of control, I think everyone would agree on that.
I’d also like to see an ability to switch gears as and when required, we just don’t seem able to do that at present.
But we live in hope, lol. It pains to see other teams doing what we once were so good at though.

22.) 04 Jan 2023
04 Jan 2023 09:27:29
We better figure it out asap or we will be playing Europa league again.

23.) 04 Jan 2023
04 Jan 2023 10:17:39
It already come out in the public. All the report saying Pep is now taking more control of the team. He is responsible for the first team training for a while now.

Some even saying that he is having more say in our transfer business and some of the signing we made is Pep's recommendation. And also we reject chances to sign some players because of him and Klopp.

He also rejecting offer to become manager elsewhere to stay at Liv. Again I don't know how much of all this is true though.

The interesting thing is that all this start to come out after that Carragher comment. So who knows how much of it is true.

{Ed002's Note - Perhaps Carragher should learn to be careful about what he says and you would not have all of this weird conjecture. There is no understand at this time what will happen with any change of ownership.}

24.) 04 Jan 2023
04 Jan 2023 10:39:40
Thanks for all your input, Ed01. Just one more note. I see Klopp now and the stress and pressure is getting to him. Just look at his face. I have no problem with him delegating duties to others cos even Fergie did that later on. The issue here is that Pep who he likes, seems to be using Klopp’s hard earned clout to further his own interests and his ego is getting in the way cos we all know this isn’t working YET he persists with it like he is trying to prove some dumb point.

He’s made it about himself now and not the team and the club, which is the same thing BR was doing till he got his walking papers. I don’t like it when people persist with insanity just to prove a point to their egos. Pep had better tread wisely cos he will leave before Klopp does.

{Ed001's Note - just so long as Klopp steps back up and sorts it out!}

25.) 04 Jan 2023
04 Jan 2023 11:47:12
The thing that I find weird, Ed001, is that compromises on the style of play had already been made. The team between 2018-2020 utilised a perfect blend of possession and heavy metal football, after the early years of Klopp had failed to yield trophies. The whole Buvac drama was because of this.

We’d already found the golden formula, why did we need to push it so hard in the other direction?! The only thing we needed to do was, as you say, find ways of executing that plan better, as well as building a deeper and more varied squad in order to cope with the workload.

We already had the solutions and we threw them away. I’ve been skeptical and fearful since last season, and everybody said i was completely crazy. Given we were competing for the quad, I can see why, but I’ve insisted since the start of last season that something wasn’t right, and I was enjoying the football a lot less.

I can’t see Klopp suddenly having a second wind and taking us back to what we were. I’m very scared about what comes next.

{Ed001's Note - exactly mate, I don't understand why he suddenly started to believe Lijnders had the answer.}

26.) 04 Jan 2023
04 Jan 2023 11:02:25
And that is a lot of conjecture, mfahmee2.

27.) 04 Jan 2023
04 Jan 2023 11:08:57
Pandora's box has been opened.

28.) 04 Jan 2023
04 Jan 2023 11:15:26
Think Klopp was the one who said Diaz was closely watched by Pep linjders after scouting reports hence now people have started talking about he's signings recommendations especially with he's Portugal connection and how open he has been abt talent there

Think at at the end of the day it hardly matters. It's up to Klopp to fix this in the summer.

It's very important for Klopp to sit-down with pep and decide what style is needed going forward so players are signed accordingly rather then using square pegs in round holes.

29.) 04 Jan 2023
04 Jan 2023 12:29:11
Is there any clues out there that Klopp is actually seeing that Pep is very poor and should be nowhere near the managers job, would rather it went to Frank or Nagelsmann.

30.) 04 Jan 2023
04 Jan 2023 12:37:13
If the point about Klopp releasing more control to Pep is true then what's the point in even being manager, personally I want a manager to manage and believe in his own system, not delegate to someone else and play like a shadow of our former selves, If its true that the stress and strains are too much then why are you still being paid? Just walk away and we'll say thanks for the memories, but if these rumours ARE true then we seem to be drifting in no mans land between a man that wants a new system whose ego is at full tilt and a man whose system works for us who wants an easy life, Its also clear the players are confused for whatever reason, they might be older but you don't turn into a bad set of players overnight, no chance.
Whatever the issue is its needs fixing and quick and looking round in the bargain bin at the end of the window for more Arthurs and Kabaks ain't going to sort it.

31.) 04 Jan 2023
04 Jan 2023 12:37:56
The bottom line is, we need to fix up. Right now, players and staff look out of kilter and the football we are seeing is not only turgid, but also limp.

Klopp teams are supposed to be emotional. Somebody show some fight.

32.) 04 Jan 2023
04 Jan 2023 12:55:24
I don't think it's all down to Lijnders having more influence.
The title winning team is ageing, slowing down and moving on. Their replacements are not forthcoming, ready or good enough.
We do need to look at doing better with what we have- that might mean Lijnders taking a step back- but we also need to look at improving what we have to work with.
I don't think there is one problem for our poor form this season.

33.) 04 Jan 2023
04 Jan 2023 12:56:56
Nice to see so many people on here have the same opinion as me on how the teams style has changed and not for the better. Not sure why we changed and why they are persisting with it when it clearly isn’t working.

34.) 04 Jan 2023
04 Jan 2023 13:33:45
Ed did you ever watch Ljinders team for his short spell in Holland. I seen claims of similarities in how we play and NAC Brada played but I wouldn’t be able to comment as i haven’t a clue how they played but given he got sacked and performances/ results have been awful id be inclined to believe it’s similar.

{Ed001's Note - I didn't watch it, but the club's fans forum that I looked at did suggest it was the same thing there. Hard to be sure without actually watching them myself though.}

35.) 04 Jan 2023
04 Jan 2023 14:48:25
Its just something I read online Rigsby. And the journalist seems to be a respected one. But as I said, don't know how much of it is true. Just sharing what I read.

36.) 04 Jan 2023
04 Jan 2023 15:45:53
Ok, mfahmee2.

37.) 06 Jan 2023
04 Jan 2023 16:22:17
Having read all the post i have to point out a comment from robbo after Brentford mess and that was the players did not follow the managers instructions .
This highlights two things one klopp must have control but he is loosing changing room
Two the players are showing their decent towards the coach and his system of play and are showing it on the pitch.
I think the second option
the coach (pep) and his system of play.

To me jurgen lost a lot of his passion on touch line when sly sports made a big thing of it on tv and his giving the lines man a ear ache arteta is 50 times worse pep (city) 50 times worse yet they get away with it.
i have always thought sly sports had an agenda with LFC and Klopp .

The board need to sit down with Jurgen and discuss why they are paying him a big salary to take a back seat and i mean this week and highlight pep and his position at the club before we fall to far from grace.