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PutneyRed's rumours posts with other poster's replies to PutneyRed's rumours posts

 

07 Sep 2017 16:15:37
How's this for a conspiracy theory, a factor in deciding to keep Moreno was to ensure Coutinho had a close friend in the squad.

PutneyRed

1.) 07 Sep 2017 17:50:33
Moreno is klopps long lost lovechild only way to explain it.


2.) 07 Sep 2017 19:00:20
And Roberto Firmino isn't a close friend of Coutinho?


3.) 07 Sep 2017 19:54:02
Except that Klopp wanted rid of coutinho at the end.


4.) 07 Sep 2017 19:59:49
you'd think he would've kept lucas for that.


5.) 07 Sep 2017 20:10:25
Reid, just because they're both Brazilian doesn't make them best mates.


6.) 07 Sep 2017 20:15:50
He definitely is closer too moreno, moreno has a good character round the dressing room I hope he can somehow come good.

{Ed025's Note - and i want everton to win the CL hailstones...same chance..


7.) 07 Sep 2017 20:21:34
Or that Moreno has improved?

{Ed025's Note - silk purses and sows ears and all that..


8.) 07 Sep 2017 20:32:58
See his face from the bench.


9.) 07 Sep 2017 20:45:48
Moreno hasn't improved imo, he's been just as bad this season. I do however know from someone who works for the club that he's a top bloke.

{Ed025's Note - aah thats nice cobra..


10.) 07 Sep 2017 21:03:15
Ed25 seems like a nice bloke but then you remember he's a biter!


11.) 07 Sep 2017 22:06:29
Klopp said through out last season that the best in training in terms of attitude and commitment, is Moreno.


12.) 07 Sep 2017 23:08:39
Is pipco back in training?


13.) 07 Sep 2017 23:25:24
Big season ahead for Moreno. From what I saw, it was his pre season appearaces that kept him at the club,
He's another year older now and hopefully not as wrash in his decision making,

FB must be the hardest position on the pitch to play, you really need eyes in the back of your head.


14.) 08 Sep 2017 00:34:39
Yes and we kept Bogdan whom is a close friend of markovic whom is a close friend of Moreno whom of co as you said is a close friend of Coutinho.


15.) 08 Sep 2017 00:03:44
Proper neg ead u ed 025 he can improve can't he, also he has shown in the past he has had good games he has room too improve young lad comin too different league, he could b adapting, jus needs too find consistency.

{Ed025's Note - im a realist hailstones, he has been at the club for 3 years now so how long do you want to wait for him to improve?...just admit hes a lemon like karius, thats the problem with liverpool supporters they cant admit that some of their players are sub standard mate..


16.) 08 Sep 2017 06:53:30
Moreno is average going forward and when he gets beaten in defence and has to chase back he is a liability. Can't tackle and is so rash when chasing back that he gives free kicks away in dangerous areas and penalties.

Who cares if he is a nice guy.
Hate player bashing but he has a long way to go to win the fans over.


17.) 08 Sep 2017 08:53:36
Ed25, us LFC fans use to get a lot of stick for not "getting behind" players or "slagging them off" and now your saying we can't admit sub standard?
Everton fans are so delirious its quite scary. 😂🙈.

{Ed025's Note - encouragement is fine kopette, but lets not pretend that all reds players are world beaters thats all, some of them are of course (mane,couts) but there is also a lot of dross in there as well, lets just be honest mate..


18.) 08 Sep 2017 09:52:57
Were not sayin that ed 025, we sayin the lad is learning his trade he young look at david luiz no one would say he could improve look at salah also victor moses, if this season he constantly makin mistakes ok we hold our hands up, but if he shows improvement give the lad a chance, I think he can offer something an he has quality.

{Ed025's Note - we are all entitled to our opinions hailstones, the fact that you dont recognise a nugget when you see one still perplexes me though mate..


19.) 08 Sep 2017 10:15:35
Beddoerocks, you say Moreno can't tackle but I was reading an article yesterday that stated he is our leading tackler this season with 9, Matip is second on 8.


20.) 08 Sep 2017 11:09:41
Ed025, how can you call Karius a lemon? Lads only played a few games for us and he's young.

Certiainly not going to praise him yet as tour next great no 1 but don't you think it's fair to wait and see how he turns out before passing judgement? Looking through the those toffee spectacles again?!

{Ed025's Note - i have this philosophy you see hamish...if a guy knocks at my door wearing a green curly wig, bulbous red nose, yellow check suit and size 27 boots then i think to myself...this guys a clown, i dont need to interview him mate, i can tell straight away..


21.) 08 Sep 2017 12:07:48
Hahaha ok ed 025, I just like too see my glass is half full than half empty he has put in good performances an shown too b a decent left back admittedly in beginning of his liverpool career but why can't he improve mate he has time on his side, I was his biggest doubter last 2 seasons I know why u say wat u do, but this a make or break season for him, he is showin signs of getting better so I have too get behind him.

{Ed025's Note - and thats ok by me hailstones...hows the weather today in cloud cuckoo land mate.. :)


22.) 08 Sep 2017 12:09:18
Moreno isn't a nugget he a professional footballer getting paid handsomely.

{Ed025's Note - in our local Mcdonalds they now sell chicken morenos...so you could be wrong mate..


23.) 08 Sep 2017 13:09:55
Hahaha I am more into subway.


24.) 08 Sep 2017 12:50:51
Ed025, really? Come on mate you are being a little bit over the top. Moreno and Karius are both young and moved from different leagues.

Did you assume that De Gea was a lemon when he first joined United? With his comedy goal keeping and his lack of any physicality? His first season was an absolute disaster and now look at him, he's arguably one of the top 5 in the world as a keeper.

I'm not for one moment saying that Karius will get this good, I'm just saying his situation is comparable to De Gea, although I think De Gea actually had a worse first season than Karius, so we should give him a chance.

{Ed025's Note - im all for giving him a chance hsf, but he has yet to prove he is anything more than a liability so at the moment he is certainly a lemon, will he improve..possibly but until he does i think its fair to assume he is not up to the job, moreno has had 3 years and if he has not made the transition by now then we can reasonable assume hes a dud, its not all his fault though as it seems the coaching defensively at least is certainly lacking at liverpool mate..


25.) 09 Sep 2017 08:00:33
How anyone can say that Moreno hasn't had enough time to prove himself is beyond me! 1 good pre season game and everyone thinks he's Ashley Cole. He has proven time and time again he doesn't have the aptitude for being a left back and he's done nothing this season to prove me otherwise.
Training hard, having the right attitude and being a top bloke should not be enough to keep you in a team wanting to win honours.

{Ed025's Note - im with you cobra..


26.) 10 Sep 2017 20:02:35
Tizer I am not making my comment based on 2 or 3 games.

Moreno is not a good defender when turned. Season after season we have seen that. By all means throw stats around 93% of people know stats can used to prove a incorrect opinion 😁.


27.) 10 Sep 2017 22:05:34
We need a stable back 4. Chopping and changing is not ideal. We should try and develop a steady first back 4 to enable an understanding to develop. Stick Robertson in the LB slot TAA in RB slot and settle on a first choice CB pairing (Loren and Matip for me)

Klopp needs to commit as we have the players but they rarely ever play more than one game together.

If klopp rates Moreno then fine. But stand by the decision and give him a run in the team with a steady defensive line that can cover his shortcomings.


 

 

15 Aug 2017 14:12:13
Ed1, is there any indication from your sources that the reason for Coutinho missing games is anything other than injury?

PutneyRed

{Ed001's Note - not at the moment, but he is close to fitness, so it will be interesting to see if he is still missing games after the weekend.}


1.) 15 Aug 2017 15:53:58
Tite has said that he will only consider players who play regularly for the WC squad, even if it is Coutinho. If the club holds firm and keep him, he needs to build bridges and get into the team and have a good season if he wants to play in the WC.


2.) 15 Aug 2017 16:03:57
Cou is not that much of a sulker anyway as downing tools is not his thing. He may need time to clear his head but he will give his all esp. as his WC place is at stake as Tite does not play favorites like his incompetent predecessors Dunga and esp. Scolari.


3.) 15 Aug 2017 16:17:31
Its a shame the club couldn't sort it out behind closed doors. The lad deserves his chance at barcelona. Hope he goes on and smashes it this season wherever he plays. I want to see him at the world cup.


4.) 15 Aug 2017 16:23:21
Look, the kid wants to go, he'll be on the front of video games. Think in terms of a career, when you get offered a promotion you rarely turn it down. No offence to lfc, My first love. Reckon we might keep him until January. And I think you're right, he is not a sulker. He is still going to love us. Ynwa.


5.) 15 Aug 2017 16:25:51
Thanks Ed, I hoped that was the case.


6.) 15 Aug 2017 16:57:51
Barcelona bidding at 7:30 would be interesting though. 15 mins before kickoff, with the players wondering if he would be sold before the end of the 1st half. Lol.
Unless they don't get to see the news.


7.) 15 Aug 2017 19:30:27
If the club decides Coutinho is going nowhere and goes on and refuses to play for us then I will loose all respect. Then he can rot.

Suarez spat out his dummy when he found out he was not leaving immediately but still gave his all on the pitch irrespective of him being miff.


8.) 16 Aug 2017 00:54:09
I fail to realize why he'd want to go to Barca. I'm serious when I say that we look more prospecting then that lot at the moment. They will need Suarez, Iniesta, Alves, Messi, Alba and Neymar replacements by a few years time, without them their squad is nothing. Not to mention his best friend left them too. And in that case PSG I'd understand with the whole Brazilian entourage, but Barcelona is falling and makes no sense.

{Ed002's Note - They are not failing that much. They will have plauyers like Dembele and Coutinho - they will look again to Dybala next summer. They are successful in Europe and Domestically.}


9.) 16 Aug 2017 07:23:43
Lol. Biggest club in the world not that good. If they're no good then can you please tell me what football tou are watching. "If they didn't have *list sll their players* they would be no good. " what? If my house had no roof then I would get wet. But it has got a roof and now znd then needs a bit of attention. Players are so much more intelligent as they reach their peak 27 - 31 and more likely to go well in knock out comps. Barcelona are very dangerous. We beat bayern, we beat chelsea arsenal city and spurs last term. Barcelona would try to play football with us and thus would be playing right into our hands.


10.) 16 Aug 2017 08:17:46
If they're not that good, god knows what we are then. I was not convinced last night. That midfield and defence is poo.


11.) 16 Aug 2017 15:06:47
Defence was class last night. We won, away from home at a very decent side. Our boys tactics were near perfect. Hoffenhiem may have more of the ball but that is how liverpool played it. Last night the result was more important than playing silky football. If not for fantastic defending we would have more work to do at anfield.


12.) 16 Aug 2017 15:41:25
Can I have some of what your on please Superred91.


13.) 16 Aug 2017 16:54:25
I'm afraid you can't Lancaster. Steven Gerrard called the defence brilliant last night and I agree. I though we defended excellently.


14.) 16 Aug 2017 17:05:48
Did you see how we let them have the ball? We didn't press them how we normally do. It was the game plan to soak up their pressure and punish them on the break. This is European football and hoffenhiem were a decent side who are very strong at home. Teams are always going to get through. Ok lovren wasn't amazing but he did make some vital interceptions and tackles, headers. Look. We won. Somewhere bayern and dortmund came unstuck.


15.) 16 Aug 2017 20:08:56
Our defence has many faults and they have been awful at times. I admit to going a bit OTT when it comes to rating liverpool players but I was very happy that we got a result and look like qualifying for UCL now. I also love my club and believe credit where it's due. The boys did pretty well defencively. That touch matip did to stop the cross reaching hoffenhiem forward. Brilliant. I think for once they earned some praise.


16.) 17 Aug 2017 08:44:34
Biggest thing with being at Barcelona is pretty much guaranteed ECL every year because of the league they are in.


 

 

07 Jul 2017 13:03:17
Lots of people are upset about our transfer activity so far this summer and I have to extend my sympathies to the Eds for what they have to put up with. I thought I’d try and read between the lines a bit to try and understand what's happened so far this season and what's going on now. This is, of course, complete guess work but it may help some understand why we haven’t finished our transfer activity yet.

Ahead of the this summer Klopp had a couple of main priorities, a second top class wide player and fixing the left back position. We needed a wide man because of an over-reliance on Mane and at LB, despite Milner doing a decent job, Klopp wanted more pace and a left foot there. CB was a concern but not the priority (hence Lovren’s new contract and the assurances that were given to Gomez early on) . Two things have changed since the early planning, the (apparent) availability of VVD and the potential need for CM if Coutinho or Can leave.

The wide man is easiest to deal with as Salah’s already here. Klopp wanted Brandt but Brandt wasn’t sure so we moved on to another target who wanted to come to us and who’s club were content to sell to us, this was completed in fairly good order. LB has been far more problematic. Kolasinac chose Arsenal, Mendy appears to have chosen City and Tierney is content where he is so none of the players Klopp wanted were available (Sessegnon was one for the future not the first team) . Klopp will go for Robertson if he has to but the fact that he’s not a Liverpool player yet suggests we’re exploring other options. If it gets to August and no other option has become available I expect Robertson to come in then.

The VVD saga has caused problems. I expect when Lovren signed his contract he was expecting to be first choice but this that changed when VVD expressed an interest in joining us. Lovren now knows that Klopp is not satisfied with him and I expect Klopp doesn’t want to rely on an unsettled CB, therefore, by circumstance, CB has become a priority. I understand there is still a hope that a deal with Saints can be made whilst Saints will be hoping they can sell to someone else but, if there are no other takers, they may be prepared to speak to Liverpool again. Therefore Liverpool are biding their time, they are looking at other options if VVD doesn’t come but they are hoping that they get another chance and are prepared to wait.

The CM story is different again. With the danger of Can not signing a contract or Coutinho leaving for mega-bucks it was prudent to start looking at replacements and Keita was identified as an option. My suspicion is that something has happened behind the scene and it is now expected that either Can or Coutinho will be elsewhere next season and Keita went from an option to a primary target. I doubt Liverpool will let Coutinho leave without a replacement being identified so that deal will depend on RBL agreeing to sell Keita (and may also explain their high asking price) or an alternative of similar quality becoming available. This saga will likely rumble on for the rest of the summer.

Oxlade-Chamberlain is separate to all this. I expect this is another unexpected opportunity. On paper O-C seems to be a good fit for Klopp and Klopp would be happy to bring in a player who can cover any position across the midfield. Right now the ball is with O-C and his agent, they are waiting to see who offers them the best deal, Arsenal, Liverpool or maybe someone else. With the player due back in training shortly I expect he’ll want to make a decision soon.

In summary I expect O-C to make a decision on his future shortly, Liverpool will look to bring in a LB to join pre-season as soon as possible with Robertson being the player they go for if no better option presents itself. Meanwhile Klopp is prepared to wait on VVD’s availability and Leipzig will hold out for as much of the Coutinho money as they can get.

PutneyRed

1.) 07 Jul 2017 13:09:26
I don't think Robertson will wait till August 31 to move clubs. Two clubs are taking to hull and a decision has to be made soon, not haggle around!
Keita and Coutinho are completely unrelated! The club and the manager will face riot from supporters if Coutinho is sold!


2.) 07 Jul 2017 13:51:20
I agree with if you know me. Coutinho is staying, I have no doubt.

I agree with Putneyred on VVD. Liverpool will wait to see if anyone else approaches and if not, I'd expect an offer and acceptance in late August.

As for left backs, I don't know what to expect.

I hope we get Keita, VVD and a proper LB because if we do, I genuinely believe we would have the squad to challenge on all fronts.

YNWA.


3.) 07 Jul 2017 14:02:05
What if coutinho wants to leave and tries to give it through, would the riot still go ahead. It tickles me that we moan if players want to go even if we don't want to sell, but if we want a player who the other club don't want to sell we want them to force the move! We will get deals done if a player and club are happy with the move and we pay the money required, simples😉.


4.) 07 Jul 2017 14:19:17
Don't worry Putney Red, the Eds don't do this at the point of a gun.

{Ed001's Note - it is mild torture I use to force them, no guns involved.}


5.) 07 Jul 2017 14:32:00
I find it highly unlikely that coutinho will be leaving. Not only have the club shown no sign that we would be willing to sell but more importantly phil himself has given no indication that he wants to leave. In fact he has gone the opposite way and not even sounded vague about it. Also the fact that Barcelona aren't interested is even better for us. There is no way he is leaving us for PSG before playing in champions league which he continues to say how excited he is for.


6.) 08 Jul 2017 00:26:18
I doubt Coutinho would leave for any club other than Barcelona. He definitely wouldn't go to another EPL club and it makes little sense for him to go to PSG, unless they offered him a crazy amount of money and he was money-hungry, but he doesn't seem to be like that. Mu gut feeling and reson tell me Coutinho is quite happy to stay with us for another season and reassess his options later. playing for a great club, under a great coach y now with the opportunity of CL, which is what he wanted. JK needs to continue to build a strong squad with the likes of the players we're being linked with (VVD, Keita etc) and our top players will have even less of a reason to leave. Plus LFC is a family and there will always be players that appreciate that and want to stay. Coutinho looks like that type of player in my opinion.


7.) 08 Jul 2017 20:33:16
Vvd is worth pushing for. Kieta isn't worth the money and our current midfielders are just as good if not better. Keep hearing people say he helped his team qualify for champions league, well so did lallana Hendo can wijnaldum and coutinio. In a much much tougher league. Kieta is not half the player pogba is and would cost almost as much. We would be ridiculed. He is not the player everyone here thinks he is.


 

 

03 Jul 2017 12:20:52
Hi eds, if RBL do decide to sell Keita are we the only club to have shown interest or are there others who may try and swoop in?

PutneyRed

{Ed002's Note - I understand from an Arsenal scout that the club were looking to make an offer to RBL for Naby Keita in the summer but the lack of Champions League football, the reluctance of RBL to sell and an outrageous asking price if the did decide to sell would likely cause a dent in that plan. He has been looked at by Arsenal on several occasions these past two seasons with interest also being shown by PSG, Chelsea and Dortmund. The prior interest of Bayern Munich waned with the "not for sale" flag and the potential asking price - they don't see the value. There has been interest shown by Liverpool but RBL have twice made it clear that there has been no approach to the club. They are aware that the player became unsettled when Liverpool to the step of using the press to unsettle their targets and they now know that Liverpool have directly approached and spoken to the player. You can expect an offer from Liverpool. Spurs were watching him at the end of the season but no mre. RBL would like him to stay and to extend his contract.}


1.) 03 Jul 2017 12:47:56
Are Liverpool not likely to be in very big trouble if we they have spoken to the player (yet again) without RBL's consent? Surely the only way of avoiding yet another complaint is to stump up the cash to buy him and avoid annoying RBL even more.


2.) 03 Jul 2017 13:04:51
By reading the words of the eds, a transfer seems highly unlikely unless we are prepared to pay a very steep price.

Do you think Liverpool will be willing to meet the potential asking price?

Thank you.


3.) 03 Jul 2017 12:52:08
Many thanks for the detailed response.


4.) 03 Jul 2017 12:57:34
So Eds, if we have spoke directly to Keita, then if they wanted to could follow the same stance as Southampton.

Our dealings are nothing short of shambolic at the minute!

{Ed002's Note - Clubs are under no obligation to sell.}


5.) 03 Jul 2017 13:44:59
From what i saw of this guy last year he was immense and can get even better with Klopps help. He does a bit of everything and is a future world star.

The price will be what he is worth and at will be between
50-60m into todays market as they don't need the money and we have a solid starting playing who gets beyond his man and moves a team forward with quick incisive thinking and passing, also pops in with a few goals rather than two fairly good players for 40m. I know who i would rather.


6.) 03 Jul 2017 13:54:27
Sorry Ed2 I mean with complaints etc and our approach being an illegal one. Surely any more complaints against us and we are in serious hot water.

We are going to make it really difficult for ourselves in the future if we keep acting like this in the market.

I don't understand why we briefed the press on our targets, as clubs will just stop dealing with us (i. e Fulham) . So we must pay the asking price for Keita and move on, knowing us though we will bid £50m and a chocolate bar hoping they will accept!

{Ed002's Note - The briefing was done in order to deliberately unsettle the players.}


7.) 03 Jul 2017 15:19:46
I dint see this obsession with kieta, he will cost a fortune and if we buy him I see it as a replacement for Coutinho, who is better. Makes no sense to me.

Baz.


8.) 03 Jul 2017 15:32:32
Not at all a replacement for coutinho.


9.) 03 Jul 2017 15:42:33
Apperently Keita is the best at packing. The most important pass in the modern game. I hope he signs.


10.) 03 Jul 2017 16:04:16
I will be distraught if we sign Kieta and then also give him the no.8 shirt! I don't think we should be kicking out Gini, Can, or Lallana for a player who is on the same level. We are completely sorted in CM and we're as strong as anyone in the league in that department.

Only way the deal makes sense is if Can leaves, or maybe we wait till Can leaves on a free next summer and then we can sign Kieta for £48m (release clause 2018)

feels like a pointless signing to me and hope it doesn't happen.


11.) 03 Jul 2017 16:06:51
Keita is nothing like Coutinho. Completely different types of players. Keita reminds me more of a younger Yaya Toure, but with a better work rate.


12.) 03 Jul 2017 16:22:50
Keita will sign. You don't kick up this much fuss if you're happy and settled.

£130K/ pw is the rumoured wage offer.

He'll sign, so will VVD.


13.) 03 Jul 2017 16:32:22
Indian Buzzer is really Louis Walsh!


14.) 03 Jul 2017 16:37:37
Bryant he is at a higher level than gini can and lallana imo already and he's only 22. I don't understand how you think our cm is the strongest in the league? And baz he's not the same as coutinho at all. If he keeps progressing at the rate he has been he could be one of the best cms in the world and for another 10 years too. 2nd most dribbles in bundesliga 6th most tackles 6th most interceptions 8 goals 8 assists. He does everything. At 22! I'm really excited 😂 I hope we get him 🙏🏻.


15.) 03 Jul 2017 16:39:41
Who said Keita was like Coutinho?

Keita is better in midfield than Lallana from what I have seen, and Salah is definitely a better forward than Coutinho.

In an ideal world, we sign Salah and keep Coutinho to replace Lallana in midfield. But if Coutinho leaves, we still need a better player in there than Lallana who just dithers on the ball too much.

Keita is not worth £70m but he is seemingly a very quick thinker who looks to break at the opposition. Something Lallana is terrible at doing, which constantly affects us when trying to break teams down.

Coutinho leaving is the only scenario for me where Keita goes into our starting line up. Not because they are the same, but as an indirect replacement in the starting XI. I still have doubts over the price, but I could ignore that if Keita was going to be a regular.


16.) 03 Jul 2017 17:53:52
Why do people assume a team would have their strongest 11 every week? "Why are we signing him when we have X, Y and Z in midfield already? " - because it's a squad. Look at the injuries to Henderson, Coutinho, Mane, Matip, Lallana. etc. You don't buy 11 great players and then average back ups. you buy strength in depth, which means when players are fit you have options.


17.) 03 Jul 2017 17:55:01
Redwillis, I have no doubt that he's a decent player but I think spending another £70m on our strongest area is daft. He got a few goals and assits but watching highlights he did get lucky enough times (will admit he scored a couple of good ones too) .

He is just a bit of an all rounder and erratic but he's not going to be a defensive destroyer type who will dominate in the tackle, and likewise he's not a world class passer or clever dribbler. He's not going to take Gini's place and suddenly make 3 times the difference.

For £70m we could get a player who'll score another 20+ goals, or a world class LB, CB, GK.

I'm sure we're not going to spend a couple of hundred million this summer and to me, spending so much in this area and potentially scarficiing going all out strengthen other areas seems wrong.

Just expressing my opionion. think this is going to a crazy transfer window!


18.) 03 Jul 2017 18:03:19
MK, you think Salah is better than Coutinho?

He hasn't even kicked a ball for us yet and suddenly he's better than our player of the year 2 years running and someone who routinely gets good numbers for goals and assists in the premier league!


19.) 03 Jul 2017 18:47:46
Puzzled you are really good at not reading things properly. Salah is a better forward. Not a better player. Coutinho is a midfielder who has still managed to be unbelievable playing out of position.

Salah is a more natural wide forward who will keep the width when it is needed, run in behind and attack the box. Coutinho always comes too deep to get involved in the play.

Nowhere have I or anyone said Salah is better than Coutinho. Coutinho is bordering on world class right now and Salah is just a great player. But Salah is a better forward purely because he is suited to the role and isn't a player out of position.

Seriously, why do some people just go looking for conflict and make themselves look petty and ridiculous?


20.) 03 Jul 2017 19:19:19
Bryant I don't understand what you have been watching. Keita has is world class in the final third. his weight of pass is perfect and what's more he has bags of energy defensively. he is leagues above gini and the rest of our midfield. Can takes forever on the ball and refuses to pass anywhere other than sideways. When people say we don't need to strengthen our midfield it baffles me. even more so when they clearly have never watched keita who WOULD transform our midfield.


21.) 03 Jul 2017 19:26:17
Sorry MK but I diasagree! I'm not misreading.

Salah is not a better forward than Countinho.

Who, like I say in my comment, got all those accolades playing AS A FORWARD, not in midfield.

Coutinho is arguably better in midfield, fine. But he's still better than Salah as a forward too. You're judging Salah of a good year in Serie A. We're all judging Couts off years playin as a forward.

Not looking for conflict with your bud, I just disagree.


22.) 03 Jul 2017 19:21:11
also seems people are judging Keita based on highlights which is worrying. Keita, salah and a left back and i will be delighted. if we can add a CB better than lovren then bonus.


23.) 03 Jul 2017 19:22:17
Puzzled, if you read the post from MK, he actually said that Salah is a better forward than Coutinho, I believe that Courtinho is a better midfielder than Salah, but that's what he said .


24.) 03 Jul 2017 20:24:13
Now you are making stuff up Puzzled.

Coutinho since signing for LFC has 34 goals in 138 premier league games.

Salah since moving to Italy has 35 goals in 81 appearances.

So not only has Salah proven over 3 seasons he can score goals, he has also outscored Coutinho who has not got near his minutes to goal ratio.

Playing as a forward ultimately is about putting the ball into the net. Salah is better at doing that. Whether he adapts to English football is another matter entirely though. Coutinho is the better player. I am not under any illusions regarding that matter, but Salah is a better forward.


25.) 03 Jul 2017 21:58:47
Salah has scored them goals in Italy. exactly! Not quite as competitive* as the BPL is it? Let's judge him when he's played them games in a red shirt.

{Ed007's Note - Yeah wait to see what he can do against footballing mega-powers like Huddersfield and Bournemouth before judging him. The worst Italian defender in Serie A would walk into half the teams in the 'competitive* BPL'}

*Pishy


26.) 03 Jul 2017 22:12:07
If we have turned the lads head then we ought to buy him. It's as simple as that! The only question being how much would they budge down from their asking price which looks unlikely!


27.) 03 Jul 2017 22:15:09
I'm not in anyway looking to condone or excuse Liverpool if they have actually spoken To the player himself without permission but it's surely a very grey area when a club is within its rights to enquire via his agent as to whether a player is interested in joining. The agent will obviously ask the player and then tell the club yes or no.

A club could be "talking" to a player through his agent without ever physically speaking to them yet this isn't tapping up?


28.) 03 Jul 2017 22:41:41
The same easy Italy where Coutinho couldn't get a game for a then mid table Inter Milan?

Ed007 is bang on. The quality of defending in Italy is miles better than England. If you combined every team in the Premier League you could probably just about string a back 4 together as good as Napoli have. You wouldn't get near the level Roma and Juventus have though. Roma just sold Rudiger who will walk into the team at Champions Chelsea, but was Roma's 4th best centre back.

The state of defending in this country is laughable.


29.) 04 Jul 2017 10:17:14
Just so we are clear by the way, Keita looks nothing like Yaya Toure unless his highlights and extended clips are completely deceptive.

They are both African midfielders to be fair, but what else do they have in common?

Keita looks like a really tricky midfield player. Agile, good turn of pace, excellent work rate, very direct, decent at the short quick one touch passing, knicks possession back high up the pitch very well, good vision in behind, and capable of the odd goal or assist. He looks very weak though, and he also seems to chase the ball a bit when sometimes he should hold his position.

Toure is all about power and composure. He takes the ball, shields it from oncomers and sprays it on to start dangerous attacks from deep. Occasionally he will embark on a powerful run but he bulldozes his way through. He is a set piece specialist and long range shooter. Keita looks more like the type to try and get into the box with a quick one-two and is a better finisher one on one with the keeper.

I'd be interested to see that Toure comparison explained because I don't see it remotely. First Kante and now Toure? that's a bit of a difference. Keita to me looks like a better version of Lallana. Bags of energy and technical skill, he just knows how to use it properly and is younger.

The Toure comparison seems lazy to me. How can a 5ft7 attacking midfielder be remotely similar to a 6ft4 playmaker? Not a criticism mate, I just want to hear your logic behind it. If you have seen Keita play live then you are definitely better placed than me to form an opinion than me.


30.) 04 Jul 2017 11:02:06
I have to agree with Bryant that we have the best midfield in the league. In an attacking sense. Defencively we could be stronger and I think that's why kieta is being looked at. I would rather take vvd if it were a choice between the two. Give us both and I will be extremely optimistic.


 

 

12 Mar 2017 13:26:14
Just seen that Klopp said he had no plans to bring in a new keeper this summer. There are three possible translations as I see it.

1. He's doesn't want to show his hand at this stage of the season and is shooting who's available.

2. He's happy with Migs and Karius competing.

3. He plans to replace Migs with Ward.

If it's option 2 I'll be disappointed, we want a better keeper than Migs and Karius may not be the answer. If he isn't it will be 5 seasons without a good enough keeper. Option 3 is interesting but still a gamble, we don't know if Ward will make the grade either. I hope Klopp is being coy and keeping his options open.

PutneyRed

1.) 12 Mar 2017 13:52:14
Or it could be that Klopp wants rid of Mignolet and then have Karius as no 1, Ward no 2 and Manninger no 3.

If Karius is not going to get a proper shot at being no 1 then obviously we will not know whether he is the answer and signing a new keeper may not be the answer either unless he is given more than a handful of games to prove himself? So best solution in this situation is to give Karius a chance.


2.) 12 Mar 2017 13:53:11
The problem is not the keeper but the lack of DM and a decent defence.

Both are decent and Karius should be given more time (and patience from the so called fans) .


3.) 12 Mar 2017 13:59:23
Karius is our No.1 from the day we signed him and it has not changed due his bad performances.


4.) 12 Mar 2017 19:26:12
Interesting that our "number 1" can't get in the team.
He's clearly not "number 1" at the moment.


5.) 12 Mar 2017 20:39:09
Ron, Mignolet will be number one till the end of the season. Let's see whether he is going to be happy when he is sitting on the bench start of next season.

Klopp made a mistake to bring back Mignolet but it seems like it will work in his favour. It could be that Klopp tells him he should find another club once the season has ended. No number 1 wants to be told that. Ed002 has said on quite a few occasions that the club want rid and that Karius was signed to be no 1.


6.) 12 Mar 2017 21:01:20
How can he be "number 1" yet dropped for months?
He's back up to Mignolet, Klopp rates Mignolet higher.

{Ed002's Note - No, Klopp told Karius, Mignolet and the World that Karius is number one.}


7.) 12 Mar 2017 21:07:59
What can he say with 10 games left? "My goalies are awful, I want new ones"?

But old Jürgen is shrewd, and with Migs doing ok he can count on a pretty penny should he decide to sell, if the right keeper is available to replace him or if Karius is seen as settled.

If Karius needs more time or no really great keeper comes available Migs will be a decent option next year too.


8.) 13 Mar 2017 00:14:24
Karius is our number 1 the same way Sakho is our number 3.
Doesn't mean he's first choice.


9.) 13 Mar 2017 07:12:09
Clearly Karius is our no 1, that's the number on the back of his kit! Lol.


10.) 13 Mar 2017 13:34:22
So some think that mignolet is only being played in the first team to put him on the transfer market? I'm not so sure about that although it's an unlikely probability. I think Klopp is just taking the more practical approach, Karius did not settle well, and has been shaky with a number of the opportunities he had been given at the start of the season. Mignolet who was the more experienced premier league goal keeper was the only one he could turn to, not ideal by any stretch but a better option for goalkeeper at the time. Whilst we would never know if Karius would have been better in goal given the same games, mignolet has done alright. I wouldn't be surprised at either outcome in the summer, however I'm just not convinced by either of them. I think Karius was a poor choice to begin with but I think we decided to build a keeper rather than buy an established one which is a mistake we keep making, a never ending loop of purchasing players with potential that either never live up to it or never get the chance.


11.) 14 Mar 2017 06:39:50
No top keeper is going to sign for LFC, especially with Real sniffing round and add in City likely to be shopping around. So the choice is buy a second tier or a younger one with some experience, lots of potential and the understanding will need to bring him through. I thought the latter was why Karius was signed.


12.) 14 Mar 2017 12:40:21
Freshst- there is more than one top keeper in the world. They won't all sign for Real. City have already bought Bravo, are they going to ditch him?


13.) 14 Mar 2017 16:37:48
If de Gea moves to Real you can expect united to throw money at a replacement. Ditto Courtois leaving Chelsea or Loris leaving Spurs. Just my view but I see City looking for another keeper in summer as well. Hart seems to be saying he doesn't expect to be there and Bravos hasn't worked out.


 

 

 

PutneyRed's banter posts with other poster's replies to PutneyRed's banter posts

 

20 Sep 2017 17:39:28
There are a few too many people enjoying themselves saying I told you so about the Ox. This guy's first training session was just two weeks ago and, due to the heavy schedule, it's all been match prep and match recover since.

Klopp needs time to instil his philosophy on him, to get him playing his style. I'm still confident he'll prove his worth with us and we'll have another story like Lallana winning over the fans. The ox gets a pass from me till Christmas. By then I think the boo boys won't be so vocal.

PutneyRed

1.) 20 Sep 2017 18:25:35
Many people on this site would rather be proven right than see Liverpool succeed.


 

 

20 Sep 2017 11:35:58
Partly to change the subject and partly because of an interesting post on Huddersfield Academy yesterday I wanted to talk about youth development. I think youth development is fundamentally flawed at the big clubs, putting aside the damage done to smaller academies by hoovering up all their talent (see Huddersfield) it is more efficient for a rich club to pay for a player than for them to develop one. Academies take years to train a player and their output has a poor record. If you look at the big 6 clubs there are only 11 home trained players (this includes Solanke who was trained at Chelsea) in their first team squads. Of those 11 only 2 are established first 11 player (Kane and Rashford), 4 are hoping to establish themselves (Iwobi, Winks, TAA and Solanke), 3 are hanging on by their fingernails (Wilshire, Lingard and Flanagan) and the last two are just pups starting out (Walker-Peters and Woodburn) .

If you look at our players nationally we have a terrible reputation, in terms of our talent pool we should be on a par with Italy, France and Spain (Germany’s is an order bigger) but these countries are outperforming us, why? I believe it’s because the clubs in those countries can’t afford to fix all their problems with money and are therefore forced to utilise their youth players. Furthermore countries like Holland and Portugal are outperforming us, despite having much smaller talent pools, probably because they are ‘selling’ leagues; they have fully established youth development programmes and their best talent is continually stripped meaning there are plenty of opportunities for their youths to prove themselves. It’s similar in South America, with a one way flow of talent across the atlantic there are always opportunities for talented and determined young players.

In England there are two problems, the youth players don’t have the same route to the first team at the big clubs and, those who are so talented that they force their way through, often struggle from ‘too much, too soon’ syndrome and lack the work ethic that marks out the truly great players. If you compare Kane or Rashford to Wilshire the former two both got their opportunities by good fortune (failure of Solgado and an injury crisis respectively) as opposed to Wilshire who was told he was destined for the top from age 16.

Whilst it is always great to see a home-grown player break into the first team it has become such a rare occurrence and the current system is so damaging, that I think it should end. Essentially I wouldn’t want young talent playing at a big club until around 21. What advantage would this have? All the young talent in the country would move to smaller clubs where there is a route to the first team. As they couldn’t move till they were older they’d serve full apprenticeships rather than sit on a bench somewhere else. Furthermore they wouldn’t receive ridiculous wages early on robbing them of their desire to improve. The Championship is a very competitive league and it’s standards are probably similar or higher to a lot of the minor leagues around Europe, it should be utilised as a breeding ground for talent.

I think a rule along the lines of ‘Players must be 21 or older on the date of the first PL game of the season to be eligible to play in the PL. Players who were registered at clubs who have been promoted from the Championship in the last three seasons are exempt’. Such a system would hold back the u-21s who are of a sufficient quality and desire but those players would still make it, just a couple of years later. What do people think, ridiculous or could it work?

PutneyRed

1.) 20 Sep 2017 12:11:50
Whilst i more or less agree with your post Putney, having an age cap i feel would also restrict a players ability to learn. Do you not thnk a young 18-19 year old training with the likes of Ronalso, Ibra, Coutinho etc would help develop their game? I would mi=uch rather learn as much as i can from these types of players.


2.) 20 Sep 2017 12:39:05
That's an interest point stuie and one I hadn't considered. My gut feeling is that's a nice to have but not as important as good coaching. How many of those players you mentioned were training with greats themselves when they were teenagers?

{Ed001's Note - the best players were not coached to be great, the Bests etc. Coaching hones what is there. I would say we need to find a way to bring back more impromptu fun games of football for children. When I was growing up, you could have anything from 3 kids up to 50 or 60 on any scrap of ground we could find. Now there are cars everywhere, kids are too afraid to kick a ball around in the streets.}


3.) 20 Sep 2017 12:56:26
The countries whose youths seem more progressive and ahead in most parts in my mind are germany, holland and spain (leave south american teams out of this convo) all have one thing i can think of in common obviously extreme players like asencio in spain go straight towards their first team but all these leagues are set up so their second teams which are mainly u23 players all play in lower division leagues against senior sides (in spain they are called b and c sides, germanys 2nd (II) and in holland they are called jong. just so you can see what i mean) . What this does in my opinion is gets them used to playing against adults for the want of a better word helps get used to the physicality of the game.

{Ed001's Note - more to the point, at least in Spain from what I saw anyway, there is lots of space for kids to kick a ball about and they usually are out playing, not stuck indoors.}


4.) 20 Sep 2017 12:59:01
I agree that things have changed ed, but I doubt they'll go back to how they were. I think there's still loads of talent in England, I just don't think it's being managed correctly. In a better system Wilshire, Barkley and Sterling would be world class. Instead they're wasted talents.


5.) 20 Sep 2017 14:36:27
I think its bigger than just a football issue in UK, though that side of it could be far improved upon.

To me part of it is society and government related, for example I live across from a park that I grew up playing football in junior and youth leagues as well as just kicking a ball about with my mates, for years now the council have stopped maintaining the park and it doesn't even have goalposts any more - I see this replicated all around.


 

 

18 Sep 2017 12:36:05
To try and rationalise our start to the season if I'd set a target for our first 5 games I would have said 10 points. In that light 8 is disappointing but not a disaster. We're in the mix with Chelsea, Spurs and Arsenal and have only dropped a bit behind the Manchester clubs because they've had sensational starts.

Our defense had been appalling but, frankly, it can't get any worse and should get better if Klopp is worth his salt. We've been creating loads of chances and, once we've found our shooting boots, some cricket scores are due. Salah has made a brilliant start, Mane had continued his great form and Coutinho will be back up to speed soon. Lallana and Clyne will both improve us when they come back. There's loads of reasons to be positive, we just need to make sure we don't fall further behind the Manchester clubs whilst we get up to speed.

PutneyRed

1.) 18 Sep 2017 12:40:53
You are not allowed to think reasonably on this website didn't you know?


2.) 18 Sep 2017 14:18:26
Great post, Putney BUT as Lfcfan said, you can't post perspective and positivity on this sight as you will be called a Klopp apologist, FSG stooge or a fan of mediocrity.


3.) 18 Sep 2017 14:56:41
Lallana is massive for us and I don't think a lot of people realise how much we miss him. He has the intelligence and vision to create so many chances for the likes of Mane salah sturridge and AOC. His positional awareness is top class too and he is fairly vocal.


4.) 18 Sep 2017 15:35:30
But Putney he hasn't improved the defense and he's in his third season, I think that's what is disturbing to a lot of fans. I'm not preaching Klopp out as that is just ridiculous but I am really really concerned that our defense and keeper situation is still a shambles in his third season in charge.

{Ed025's Note - i think thats a fair point Mc..


5.) 18 Sep 2017 16:29:32
Mcgoveb, last season he made some tactical switches that seriously improved our defence, he needs to do something similar again, he just needs to compromise a bit on his philosophy.


 

 

12 Sep 2017 11:34:45
The goalkeeper debate had been raging long before Saturday’s game but any game where five goals are conceded will always bring questions. On Saturday Migs faced 10 shots on target and conceded half of them. Aguero’s goal and Jesus’ second where both the result of the strikers getting through on goal, in these situations the only way a goal will be denied is if the attacker makes a mistake, neither did and Migs is entirely blameless. Sane’s second goal was a looping shot from outside of the box close to the top corner of the goal, again no blame can be afforded to the keeper.

Jesus’ first goal was a free header from the edge of the six yard box. The ball played in was a whipped right foot inswinging cross from the left, never was the flight of the cross within six yards of the goal. Whilst it is theoretically possible that Migs could have reached the ball if he had instantly moved to Jesus’ position that ignores the requirement to judge the flight of the ball before doing so. There is no realistic way that Migs could have made that judgement then moved the six yards to challenge before it had reached Jesus. If had tried we would currently be criticising Migs for making a bad decision to come off his line. Should Migs have saved the shot? It was a free bullet header from six yards, whilst it wasn’t completely out of his reach it was far enough away and headed with enough power that it is unrealistic to expect Migs to save it.

Sane’s first goal was from an angle, through on goal and scored at the near post, it was an excellent finish. There is an argument that Migs could have covered the near post better and if he had it is likely he would have saved it. The mitigation for Migs is that City’s interplay was so quick and the finish so assured that it gave Migs no time to react. Whilst this goal could have been saved my assessment is that the attacking play gets the credit rather than Migs the criticism. There was not one goal conceded on Saturday which we should have expected Migs to save, criticism of him, in this case, is unjustified.

Having said all that we all know that Migs is at a standard below the top tier of goalkeepers. I agree with Ed1’s assessment that he doesn’t inspire confidence in his backline, should he be dropped due to his general deficiencies rather than the City game? What I don’t agree with Ed1 about is that Karius should be brought in as a better option. We can make all the excuses about media pressure we want but last season Karius was dropped after a run of 10 games because he was making costly mistakes, even if the criticism was unfair the fact that the pressure was too much is a bad sign, there isn’t a position that faces more pressure than the goalkeeper, if Karius can’t handle it is unlikely he will become a top class keeper. Even in his game this season all the talk afterwards was about his mistakes on the ball, Migs may not inspire confidence in his defenders, but Karius doesn’t either. When we brought Karius in I questioned Ed2 about how we got a prospect so cheaply, Ed2 said there was no particular reason. In seems we payed market value and Karius was a very cheap keeper. I have no confidence that he is a better option than Migs.

That leaves Ward who many are calling to be given a chance. I will admit that I haven’t really watched him and I can make no evidence based assessment of his abilities. What I can say is that I believe the ‘how can we know how good he is if he doesn’t play’ argument is a logical fallacy. We may not know how good he is but the person who picks the teams does. The fact that Ward is third choice behind both Migs and Karius does not bode well, I believe that if he was a better keeper Klopp would give him games, the only logical conclusion is that he isn’t playing because he’s not as good as the others.

So where do we go from here? Migs is the best of a bad bunch and, as long as he’s not making mistakes and costing up points, he keeps the shirt. I do not believe our next first choice keeper is at the club. Our transfer priority, maybe just after a new CB, should be a goalkeeper. Frankly we need to identify the best goalkeeper in the world, not currently at a tier one club, and pay whatever’s needed to bring them in, if not in January then definitely next summer.

PutneyRed

{Ed001's Note - hang on, you are making up crap. I have never once said Karius is a better option, I have simply said he might be but we don't know. Until he gets a proper run, we simply do not know. Ward was much better, albeit in the Championship, than Migs has been at any point in his career, except for the couple of weeks at the end of the season when he played out of his skin.

The only thing we know is that Migs is a disaster waiting to happen. We have years of evidence to know that he is not the answer. So why stick with him? He has to go or we can forget ever winning the league. Anyone who thinks he is the best we have is guessing, especially someone who admits they haven't even seen one of the other options play and is judging another on his cost! Idiocy at its finest to judge a player on his price tag only. We got him cheap because of who he plays for, it was that simple.

While we are about it, how can you absolve a keeper completely of blame while admitting he could have done better? What about how we are so damn crap at set pieces and it is his job to organise the defence? Why is he only judged on whether or not he makes saves? His game should be more than that. I really do not want to just jump on Migs, but you can't just absolve him for failure because you are ignorant about the alternatives and too cowardly to take a chance that they might be better!}


1.) 12 Sep 2017 12:17:24
Putney, you are talking absolute BS. Your post shows that you want to have it all 30 different ways. You cannot on one hand Migs had no chance on all the goals (which is false as he is at fault for their 2nd, 4th and potentially 5th goals), absorbing him of all blame while at the same time say, he is crap. Both of those things CANNOT be true at the same time.

And don't try to rewrite history here regarding Karius. Karius made two mistakes that led to goals in 10 games. TWO so your idea that he made several mistakes is patently false and YES, he was hounded out of the team due to our own supporters getting on his back and taking sides with a pathetic manc named Neville. That is what happened. And in those 10 games, we only conceded 7 goals (4 in one game, mind you) . Not saying Karius is great or anything BUT like Ed, we don't know if he or Ward is the right option as neither has had a firm run in the team. If you think ten games is enough to judge any player then thank heavens you don't coach LFC cos there will be no players left after binning them after ten games. Pep knew Hart was crap and binned him, ASAP. He brought in Bravo, gave him a full season, he was crap and he has Ederson now. Do you see anyone giving Pep grief over what he did? No and you won't cos that is how coaching is done. You act on what you know for sure and gather information on what you don't know.

Let us focus on what we know. Migs is crap, end of story. Karius is better than Migs in terms of his ability to play the sweeper keeper, quicker off his line and has better distribution (three bad kicks vs Arsenal prove nothing) . He just needs more experience in the PL. Same with Ward, who is also potentially better than Migs as well. So now that we know that Migs is crap, why should we keep playing him whereas we have two young and talented GK's we can coach up and work on and give a full run of games to so we can see if either one is the solution or if we should go get another one?

If you are okay with the devil you know (Migs) instead of the angel you don't know (Karius or Ward), that is your problem. We all don't have to go down such a cowardly path and Klopp is already letting Migs know that his place is under peril and in the end, Karius will be back in goal and you and I will have to get over it.


2.) 12 Sep 2017 12:19:20
For both goals their strikers went through, Mignolet bombed off his line and threw himself to the floor. Aguero easily side stepped him and Jesus just lifted it over him because he went down so early. I agree he Isn't expected to save these, but a good keeper would probably stop one. Ederson stopped Salah in a one on one and then Mane. Mignolet just made it easy for them.

For City's second, Mignolet had sent the whole team into a panic because 4 minutes earlier he had again flown off his line for a cross, missed it completely and gifted Jesus an open goal. Fortunately, that was struck off correctly for offside. The fact remains though that he filled City with confidence and Liverpool with fear. So a few minutes later they put a ball into the exact same area, knowing Jesus was full of confidence, knowing Mignolet was too scared to come out again, and knowing our defence was panicking due to having a useless keeper behind them. The header was good and he had no chance with it in my opinion, but he created that 10 minute panic by being a tool in the first place.

City's 4th was an absolutely shocking goal to concede. It was at his front post and i don't care how well struck it is, decent keepers don't concede at their front post; at least not as regularly as Mignolet does. That is 2 this season already.

City's 5th was incredibly well struck and another you don't say he has to save. But again, top keepers pull off unexpected saves. De Gea, Lloris, Cech, Courtois etc would've at least got fingers on it, if not stopped it. Mignolet didn't even get near it though and he never does.

I'm not blaming Mignolet for the defeat. The whole team was useless from the red card onwards. However, Mignolet yet again has made a handful of saves he should be making, caused panic in the defence, made it far to easy for the opposition, and not helped us out at all.

He's bang average mate. This is a guy who has previously been dropped for Brad Jones and Bogdan. He will never be good enough and he needs to be removed from the side ASAP. He brings nothing to us that any keeper in the top 2 tiers of English football wouldn't bring.

I have seen Ward play, and regardless of what Klopp thinks, he is better than Mignolet. Klopp isn't an all seeing all knowing god. He gets things wrong and sticking with Mignolet is a massive error in judgement.


3.) 12 Sep 2017 12:53:24
Excellent description of the goals, MK. In fact on the first one, Migs could have not flown off his line BUT goaded Aguero to actually shoot by staying on his line, delay him, narrow the angle as he was already going wide, and then go after him. However, I'm splitting hairs here. All in all, I agree that a red card should not prevent us from performing the basics of defending, which we did not do for at least the first 3 goals and that is the concern. As for Migs, he is crap. FACT. Knowing that fact, Klopp is prolly acting on it by putting Karius into the CL and hopefully, he can make the shirt his own.


4.) 12 Sep 2017 12:55:06
I knew this was going to be unpopular. Ed1 the crux of our disagreement is whether we should try Karius because we already know Migs is bad. My view is we don't do it because we have to do as best as we can now if we want to win the league this year. Migs isn't great but if he's better than Karius then he should play.

Bingo, I reject your premise that Migs was at fault (note that is not the same as saying he couldn't do any better) for any of the goals on Saturday, I think it's nonsense. I also believe your assessment of Karius and Ward is based on a desire for them to be better than rather than any evidence that this is the case.

MK, I think your explanation for the second goal being Migs' fault is too convoluted to be taken seriously and like Bingo, I think you're bias is showing if you think a different keeper would have done better for the first, third and fifth. What I don't disagree with is that a better Keeper is needed, I just don't expect Karius or Ward to be that keeper.

{Ed001's Note - if the staff thought he was better than Karius, then Karius would not have been bought.}


5.) 12 Sep 2017 13:07:52
I think people are calling for ward simply because he is a different option from mignolet or karius and not on merit. I think the lad deserves a chance but I wouldn't want us to hang all our hopes on the Wales no.2.

Karius is meant to be our no1 and I really hope we give up this constant keeper rotation and give him the rest of the season. If he is no good then sell both migs and karius and try something new. Mk is right (again) you cznt judge on a handful of games.


6.) 12 Sep 2017 13:09:35
You both keep says Migs is crap yet your manager keeps picking him time and time again and then you are against those who points finger at the manager. You can't have it both ways! Either you concede Klopp is wrong picking Migs or Migs is actually a good keeper and you are wrong!

{Ed001's Note - I have no problem picking fault with Klopp when he is wrong. I have said from the start that he was wrong to bring back Migs, it was a terrible decision.}


7.) 12 Sep 2017 13:11:31
Ed1, To answer a few of your specific points, I apologize for my imprecise language I happily admit that you said you'd bring in Karius not that you think he's better. I'm not saying I think Migs is better than Ward, I'm saying Klopp thinks that and I'm bowing to his assessment in this matter. The anecdote about Karius' price was not what I base my opinion of him on, I base that off of watching him play. However, I disagree with you that the price is not important, £5m is very cheap for a first choice keeper with supposed potential from any bundesliga club, especially if the buyer is from the premier league. Finally my assessment of the goals, my argument wasn't (nor ever has been) that Migs is good enough for us. My argument is that criticism of him for conceding those goals is unwarranted. Criticism of his all round play is a different matter.

{Ed001's Note - ok, I see what you are saying, but Klopp would not have held Ward back if he thought Migs was the better option, he would not have bought Karius in the first place if he believed Migs was the better option. So why would you bow to his judgement if he was wrong to buy Karius and hold back Ward in that case? He has made a mess of this particular situation from the start and it is not going to get better by sticking by a keeper who is letting us down repeatedly, even if the alternative turn out to be no better. Give them a chance to prove one way or the other if they are better.

As for Karius' price, it is truly irrelevant. The price was what it was because he wanted the move and they are a small club who believe that bringing in cheap selling on at a profit if the move is also good for the player allows them to recruit a better calibre of player than they otherwise could. Clearly it does, as they have got to where they are by doing so.}


8.) 12 Sep 2017 13:37:49
Ed, I will happily agree that the situation is a mess. The biggest shame is that we haven't had a good enough keeper since Reina started angling for a move, five years is too long not to sort this problem.

{Ed001's Note - the recruitment team have not covered themselves in glory.}


9.) 12 Sep 2017 13:58:03
Harry do you even read my thoughts on Klopp? 😂 it was only yesterday i took pelters for saying he bottled it with his substitutions.

I'm not against criticising Klopp anymore. I was reluctant to do so last season because it was his first full season. No excuses now though. He is fully settled, this is his team, and he is still failing to deliver right now. That may change as the season goes on, but he needs to prove to us all why we should be believers, or their will start to be more and more doubters.

For me, Klopp wins a trophy this year or he needs to go. Even if it is the Carabao cup it will show some progress, but you can't be LFC manager for 3 seasons and win nothing. That got Rafa (2006-2009) and Rodgers (2012-2015) the sack. Start winning things or move on to make space for someone who will. If Klopp goes 2015-2018 without winning anything, why is he any different to those guys? Rafa had a Champions league final to Klopps two finals, and Rodgers nearly won the league. Nearly isn't good enough for us with them though. So it shouldn't be different with Klopp because he is passionate and has a likeable clown act, to quote the great Ed002. Hell Kenny actually won our last trophy, and he got canned anyway!

Klopp's persona is wearing thin on me and as much as i believe he will win us something this year, he has to go out and turn a prediction into reality before he can ask for more time. Fun fact; every player in the first team squad except Milner, Ings, Markovic and Bogdan has either been offered a new contract during Klopps reign, or been signed by Klopp. He clearly likes Milner and Ings and Markovic and Bogdan are barely worth considering. His squad. His responsibility.


10.) 12 Sep 2017 14:02:18
Now this is the Adam I actually like MK 😎 Or rather I miss on the site. Proper unbiased poster once he was. 😄. I though you too got turned on by bingo 😄.


11.) 12 Sep 2017 14:05:34
The fact that 4 years after signing migs we are still discussing his place in the team, is proof that he shouldn't be there.

Karius got 10 game and made a few mistakes and everyone included carra slaughtered the boy to the point klopp had to drop him to protect him.

Ward hasn't been given any games

Mignolet has had over 100. 100 game a and is still dog poo

It doesn't. matter wether karius is better but quite simply we owe him the opportunity to prove it either way. He was a started in the bud3sliga and only moved to us because klopp would of made promises. We are stunting his development. Get him in goal, get migs gone and if all still bad in Jan then get rid and but someone else.


12.) 12 Sep 2017 18:42:23
Sack Klopp if he doesn't win something this season? Really? What is the point in that? He has the team playing some exceptional football and got us back into the champion league. Unless there is someone who could do better than that then why bother?
What gives us the right to think we should be winning things? Do we have the best team? Squad? Most resources? No we don't? Is Klopp underachieving with this squad? No.
Spurs have a great manager who has been there longer than Klopp, yet has won nothing. are Spurs fans asking for him to be sacked?
Klopp is making mistakes, is not perfect but he is making progress and exciting us in the process. Your points may be valid at the end of season but they are a bit premature and I feel uneccesary at this point. How about we show him some support until he does stop progressing.


13.) 12 Sep 2017 18:47:36
Karius looked like a top keeper he's last season in bundesliga. He had bad luck with his injury and a bad start, but i find it very weird that he still hasn't taken the spot from Migs.


14.) 12 Sep 2017 18:49:05
Harry, what does "your manager" actually mean? Is he not your manager as well? We know you don't like Klopp BUT that "your manager" crap was out of order.

As for the GK issue, Klopp has indeed made a mess of the situation by hooking Karius cos he made TWO mistakes (not several as many say on here inaccurately) . He was signed to replace Migs who had and has been crap for 4 years here.

Klopp is prolly trying to fix the issue by using Karius in the CL as a way to phase out Migs. He does not trust Migs which is why Karius and Ward are still here, as Ed01 alluded to. That is good enough for me cos at least we know that he does not rate Migs and never really did. To me, now is the time to get rid of this crap GK and move on to seeing if Karius or Ward are the ons to go with moving forward. At least, we don't have to deal with him anymore.


15.) 12 Sep 2017 19:20:43
Putney, this has nothing to do with desire. It has a lot more to do with evidence and a desire to take a look at either of these GK's as they cannot be any worse than Migs, surely.

You ask me if I have evidence to know about Karius' qualities. I refer you the the League Cup semi final tie last season vs the Saints. In that game, we were awful across the board and Nathan Redmond (who scored the winning goal at 1-0) could have had a hatrick in that game. Do you know why he did not and we were still in the tie? Loris Karius.

Karius made 4 very good saves in that game including a point blank shot from Redmond in the 6 yard box. In the return game at Anfield, he kept us in the game while we chased it by coming out to smother a shot point blank by Tadic. He got no credit for his perf. cos well, we lost so who cares right? I cared cos I was actually checking him out to see how he would do.

His talent also showed in preseason vs LC where he came out to deny Vardy 2/ 3 times as the sweeper keeper. This is how I know he can be a good GK for us if he can get a good run of games and figure it out. Watch these games on Youtube and see for yourself.

Again I am not saying either Karius or Ward are the answers. I am just saying that they deserve to be given a full go as they cannot b e any worse than Migs and we know for a fact that Migs is crap so why persevere with crap? That's all I'm saying.


 

 

10 Sep 2017 23:40:25
There's only one post I've seen since yesterday that comes close to accurately explaining what went wrong yesterday (take a bow Ron) ; Klopp got his approach to the game all wrong.

Any post that criticizes Klopp has to have a caveat, mine is that I love Klopp, when he gets it righthis teams are spectacular. The problem is he's an arrogant son of a b*tch and yesterday his arrogance got the better of him. He believed his own hype, that he was unbeatable against another top six side. His set up took absolutely no consideration into how to stop city playing.

Klopp thought he could show up and Mane and Salah would win it for him. He thought TAA, Matip, Klavan and Moreno were good enough to hold Aguero et al at bay without midfield cover. Guardiola is no mug and has the best squad in the league. They went toe to toe with us, whethered a few half chances and then tore us apart. It was embarrassing how easy it was for them.

The one positive that can come from this is that it might make Klopp realise that he can't always have it his own way, that sometimes he had to figure out how to ensure the other team scores less rather than Liverpool score more. If he doesn't learn this lesson then there'll be plenty of incredible matches where we eviscerate the opposition but there'll be no titles, he'll mess up too often.

PutneyRed

1.) 11 Sep 2017 00:11:34
Good post Putney but klopp has won titles in a tough league with perhaps a lesser squad than some. The tactics might have got us something from the game. I doubt anyone even considered we would play most of the match with ten men as we are not really a physical side. At least the red card was because of a desire to win rather than out of thuggish violence.

I don't think there is much to learn that we didn't already know. The defence ain't all that and apply constant pressure and they collapse. It highlights what having a man sent off does to an attacking team. We haven't lost the league yet and I think Burnley are in line for a hammering. Seville will be difficult but they won't like coming to anfield on a Wednesday night.


2.) 11 Sep 2017 01:24:25
The team was doing great, away fom home against one of the potential champions until the red card;
The contest was over when Mane was shown a red card.

It was a bad injury but not a sending off,
There was just as bad a challenge today in Swansea v Newcastle and that got a yellow card shown.

IT WAS exactly the same challenge
bit it just hit a different part of the body.

A yellow would have been fine in both cases,


3.) 11 Sep 2017 01:53:29
Superred, there were clear lessons from this game; playing recklessly is not a reliable way to win games. That we have to compensate for our personnel problems not ignore them. That we'll concede if we let top class players get behind our midfield. If we don't learn anything from this were doomed to make the same mistakes over and over again.


4.) 11 Sep 2017 02:13:51
The tactics were fine before we lost Mane. We were a goal down but with equal chances at both ends. If they had lost Silva to a red card, chances are we would have exploited the space and treated them like Arsenal.


5.) 11 Sep 2017 02:14:14
Likewise love the guy and Klopps done wonders for the side but he made a few errors for me too.

1) agree he should have been more defensive away from home vs City in his selections in defense
2) I would have gone for the experience of Gomez over TAA, Lovren over Klavan and Robertson at LB. how we thought that back 4 would survive vs City is beyond me, we were clearly hoping to blow them away upfront
3) Klavan to me looks fine against sides with big forwards and no pace. he's brave and attacks the ball in the air. but as soon as it's played on the ground and he's having to mark quick runners he's exposed
4) still not sure about Migs either. not his shot stopping skills but organizationally we still look all over the place with him between the sticks

After the sending off though we still tried to defend in a press and got killed. impossible task and Klopp should have set up with two banks of four but instead we still had gaps all over midfield as people pushed to press high.

Overall a terrible day at the office and hopefully we learn to be a bit more balanced and pragmatic at times to prevent our defense being exposed too often (we seemed to be learning end of last season) . Still think it's early days and we have a great squad bar a couple of obvious weaknesses. just need to get the setup right.


6.) 11 Sep 2017 02:41:52
The only way we can go toe to toe with citeh is like chelsea did, with some cunning gamesmanship, but alas our players are just too goody 2 shoes. Look at Chelsea team they have Luiz, Fabragas, Costa, Alonso etc it was Fabregas who got Fernandinho sent off last time. We need bit of cultish attitude.


7.) 11 Sep 2017 03:54:12
i agree with everything in your post except the emphasism on Kloop winning the title in germany. yes he did win BM. but LFC is a different there is a lot PR pressure here, he has the last say here where as in BM he had DOF you did the transfers for him and in this way DOF always had a bigger picture in his mind. i feel Kloop is like a kid in a candy shop who wants to buy only attacking players, no real desire on the defence. i might be wrong but most of the managers who won the prem were defensive managers and all of them sorted thier defence first ( even wenger with his invincibles had a great defensive set up) . i do like kloop but i doubt that he is the man to win us the prem or CL. but i do hope we win the league cup or FA cup this year.

{Ed001's Note - Klopp is trying to buy defenders, so your post is just nonsense.}


8.) 11 Sep 2017 06:47:42
Supered

A lesser squad? Like who? Lewandowski, Reus, Gotze, Hummels, Gundagaon. Sahin, Bender, All those would walk into our team right now!


9.) 11 Sep 2017 07:41:13
Sahin couldn't walk into a weaker squad a couple of years back, what makes you think he can walking into this squad? Klopp had an oppotunity to buy Gotze and he did not, so what makes you think he can walk in now?


10.) 11 Sep 2017 08:09:39
Sahin was being misused by Rodgers who thought he was a number ten. Unfair analogy.


11.) 11 Sep 2017 08:18:47
That was not the point icon

Klopp had one of the best team in Europe when he won the titles at BVB. The moment he sold Gotze and less they went to relegation mode! It was not like he took a Burneletband won the league over ther.

And regarding Sahin, He is a proper DLP who was played as a CAM by Brendan!


12.) 11 Sep 2017 08:36:18
No, they would not Harry and stop this nonsense about other players being better than ours just cos they don't play for us. The players you mentioned were created by who? That would be Klopp and he to some extent is doing the exact same thing here so no one knows if they would walk into this team as the PL is different.

Now to the Putney post. You call Klopp arrogant SOB. And what manager is not and arrogant SOB? His opposite no. does not even believe in his defenders making tackles or getting stuck in and Wenger does not even care about the opposition team's tactics but these guys are not arrogant but Klopp is, right?

Klopp believed in the team he put out there and before the red card, we were well in the game and should have been one up before their goal and tied before the red card had Salah taken his chances and had Fernandinho not fouled Mane from behind as he was ripping their defence to pieces. He was not arrogant during this period BUT he would later be arrogant after the red card, right? Pathetic reasoning, really.

The pathetic recriminations need to stop, ASAP. I know the red card ruined the game BUT there were other things that could still have been done better that the red card should not cover up. Defensively on the first 3 goals, we were dire and that should be fixed. We have issues with starting fast at early day kickoffs and that has been a concern for a while now. As for the selection, Klopp did what he thought was right with the fitness info at his disposal. We do not have this info to fall back on so saying this or that player should have played or not, is pointless supposition.


13.) 11 Sep 2017 09:28:32
I think it's a fine line and had Mane not been sent off, had we taken one of our early chances it might have been the reverse score line.
I'm not going to criticise only Klopp. What about this guy "the brain"? Has he not figured it out yet? Can he not see that we often commit too many players forward or that Klavan is too slow to play in a high line?


14.) 11 Sep 2017 11:06:15
Ron.
They know exactly what is happening on the pitch as the players are performing to what they are told to do! We commit too many forward coz he wants us to attack in numbers. We don't have a proper holding midfielder who sit infront of the defense and protect the CB's.


15.) 11 Sep 2017 11:18:01
Ron, you are not totally wrong. I don't know that if Mane had been on the pitch for 90 mins, we would have won as no one knows that and City is more than capable of scoring 5 vs any team's first 11 as they are that good. We have issues in this team that came to the fore again, red card or not and that is where the debate should begin. Klopp even said that the first goal should have been avoided by the defensive line simply taking too steps forward and then both Aguero and Gab Jesus would have been offside and no goal happens. Tiny details like that, make a difference.


16.) 11 Sep 2017 12:02:46
are liverpool fans the only fans in the world that act like losing a football game is tantamount to reason? like it's the biggest anomaly in sport or something?


17.) 11 Sep 2017 13:09:45
Faith, it is because many of our fans use a bad result to either gloat in a bid to say "see, I was right" or to say "FSG out" (as if FSG is the reason Mane got a red card) or to do recriminations against a certain player (s) or the manager that they want to really criticize but can't as we were undefeated in all comps. b4 the City game. Everyone has his/ her reasons why they go into meltdown mode after a bad result BUT it is part of the game. I just hope there are more realistic and rational supporters than this lot.


18.) 11 Sep 2017 13:51:43
Putney you say that we keep making the same mistakes over and over but actually that is our only defeat for a long time. It is also the only drumming I can actually remember? My cigarettes smell funny though and my memory is shot!

When we win (which we usually do) we call klopp a genius, we could have completely consolidated but 1 0 is the same as 5 0 in points and the one positive I took from Saturday (it was hard to find a positive) is that we still tried to play and that was brave (perhaps daft) but brave.


19.) 11 Sep 2017 16:34:46
I'm sure dortmund weren't favourites when they first won the German league. You can list some class players yes but list some of Munich for balance.


20.) 11 Sep 2017 16:49:53
We went toe to toe with city last season and won one drew one didn't we? And beat em in a cup I think? The red card cost us. I think we would've got something from the game with eleven men. Let's not give up hope yet. Last week everyone was saying we are going to win the league and one defeat later the season is over already! I still think we can win it. I honestly believe we can.


 

 

 

PutneyRed's rumour replies

 

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07 Sep 2017 20:10:25
Reid, just because they're both Brazilian doesn't make them best mates.

PutneyRed

 

 

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25 Aug 2017 12:52:30
Dunh Dunh Dunh, another one bites the dust, and another one's gone and another one's gone, another one bites the dust.

PutneyRed

 

 

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24 Aug 2017 23:19:17
Wrong Harry guys.

PutneyRed

 

 

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15 Aug 2017 16:25:51
Thanks Ed, I hoped that was the case.

PutneyRed

 

 

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08 Aug 2017 13:13:53
Spigot, if it was so easy to win with suarez in the team why couldn't Dalglish do it?

PutneyRed

 

 

 

PutneyRed's banter replies

 

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20 Sep 2017 13:00:37
Got it, think we're just arguing semantics.

PutneyRed

{Ed001's Note - probably.}


 

 

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20 Sep 2017 12:59:01
I agree that things have changed ed, but I doubt they'll go back to how they were. I think there's still loads of talent in England, I just don't think it's being managed correctly. In a better system Wilshire, Barkley and Sterling would be world class. Instead they're wasted talents.

PutneyRed

 

 

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20 Sep 2017 12:45:58
I know that was the plan ed, do you think it still is? Klopp had been pretty adament that Migs is number one and the others will play in the cups. Of course Migs is always in danger of being dropped but that's different to being phased out.

PutneyRed

{Ed001's Note - he still plans to get rid of Migs. What Klopp says publicly, like all managers, is irrelevant and best ignored.}


 

 

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20 Sep 2017 12:39:05
That's an interest point stuie and one I hadn't considered. My gut feeling is that's a nice to have but not as important as good coaching. How many of those players you mentioned were training with greats themselves when they were teenagers?

PutneyRed

{Ed001's Note - the best players were not coached to be great, the Bests etc. Coaching hones what is there. I would say we need to find a way to bring back more impromptu fun games of football for children. When I was growing up, you could have anything from 3 kids up to 50 or 60 on any scrap of ground we could find. Now there are cars everywhere, kids are too afraid to kick a ball around in the streets.}


 

 

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20 Sep 2017 11:39:06
I think there's an assumption that migs is being phased out. Rightly or wrongly the evidence is that he is first choice at the club.

PutneyRed

{Ed001's Note - he is being phased out. It is not an assumption. If things had gone according to plan, he would have been phased out last season.}