16 Jan 2023 10:31:43
I think just when we look back we will realise that selling Gini was the catalyst for us going backwards, hugely under appreciated imo.

1.) 16 Jan 2023
16 Jan 2023 10:38:11
I agree.

2.) 16 Jan 2023
16 Jan 2023 10:42:46
Was never properly acknowledged how good he was. I remember Hendo getting player of the year shouts in 19/ 20. He was great that season, but for me Gini was even better.

3.) 16 Jan 2023
16 Jan 2023 10:43:28
I wouldn't say selling Gini was the catalyst, firstly because we didn't sell him, he left once his contract ran out. Secondly, the fact that we didn't bring in a suitable replacement is the reason we are in this mess.

Yes, Gini was effective. However, he would often be a liability too and he is remembered more fondly now because of how poor our midfield is, right now. Plus, Gini was always fit and ready to go, that cannot be said for our current midfield. Gini was ever present, which meant everyone knew how he operated. People around him would switch in and out but never Gini. He was our constant.

The truth is though, we needed an upgrade, but, instead we opted to go for a no-grade because we never replaced him. That is a massive failing in every department, from Klopp to our recruitment staff.

4.) 16 Jan 2023
16 Jan 2023 10:47:44
Couldn't disagree more. Since Gini left he's struggled to do anything at PSG before being bombed out, and then been injured for Roma. We got rid of him at the perfect time just before he declined.

The problem wasn't letting go of Wijnaldum. The problems were a) replacing him with a player the same age in Thiago and b) not having a succession plan for Henderson and Fabinho.

Getting rid of Wijnaldum and Mane are the only correct things we've done in the last 2 or 3 years. We should've regenerated more of the aging squad rather than try and adapt the tactics for an older core.

5.) 16 Jan 2023
16 Jan 2023 10:50:47
Why? does Gini control the midfielders who are left legs? We didn't recruit enough quality, that's the problem and always has been, Qatari's will fund the team properly, any idea how there worth?

6.) 16 Jan 2023
16 Jan 2023 10:56:49
Some of these posts are getting funnier by the day, everyone has lost their marbles. I give it a week before people start saying that we should sack Klopp and appoint Buvac as manager, with Colin Pascoe as his assistant.

7.) 16 Jan 2023
16 Jan 2023 10:59:35
Klopp's words were that our success was built on Gini's heart and lungs.

8.) 16 Jan 2023
16 Jan 2023 11:04:46
Can you imagine if the LFC recruitment director suddenly turned around to Klopp and said ‘here you go man, we’ve just bought a £80m midfielder for you as looks like the team need it. ‘ Got to be jealous of Chelsea’s ability to spend money when needed.

9.) 16 Jan 2023
16 Jan 2023 11:16:06
Couldn’t agree more with MK. If only we sold some of the oldies when they had offers we wouldn’t be begging for money. And as for Wijnaldum, he was a ghost for an entire season. People were desperate to get rid lol.

10.) 16 Jan 2023
16 Jan 2023 11:19:21
If only we knew when I player was going to get injured or decline. Then we could sell them before they do. Where’s my crystal ball?. Maybe if he hadn’t moved he might not have been injured ?‍♀️.
Perfect player for the way that we played back then .

11.) 16 Jan 2023
16 Jan 2023 11:20:53
I think it's less Gini the individual and more the midfield set up he was a part of.

When we had Fabs, Gini and Hendo it was a clear system of Fabs at no.6 with two box to box midfielders either side of him who could get up and down the pitch, and cover the fullbacks too. Milner still had the legs to seamlessly drop into this system. All spaces were covered and it allowed our fullbacks and forwards to do most of the attacking. Fans criticised our midfield for being too functional, but it worked and we won both the CL and PL playing that way.

Thiago changed it a bit because he's less about running and more about skill on the ball, and Klopp tinkered with the right hand side, giving Hendo more responsibility to overlap down the right around the same time, but the basic shape was still there up to last season.

But this season, it's gone out the window. Even when we've nominally set up with a three man midfield, one of them, usually the right sided center mid has done a lot more roaming about the pitch and been less concerned with covering spaces. Other times Elliot has played as an outright right sided wide midfielder, and then against Brighton, we played with a no 10. Any of those things pull the other two, usually Fabs plus either Thiago or Henderson, into a two center mid system which is not working.

Gini himself frequently turned up on the big occasion, but was too often too quiet week to week. It's not that he was bad. He was ok. But he demonstratably could be a lot better than ok when it suited him. Always felt he played a bit within himself week to week. Maybe that's why he barely missed a game for us?

12.) 16 Jan 2023
16 Jan 2023 11:24:23
When gini was good he was very good but when he was bad he was the worse player on the pitch. Held onto the ball too much at times for me, taking 4 or 5 touches when one would do.

13.) 16 Jan 2023
16 Jan 2023 11:27:54
we went from only competing for the premier league to being able to compete for everything but only winning the crappy cups.

It is really interesting watching the fallout of our results and the reach people will go to in order to lay blame, find reason etc. Gini is my favourite one I think. Because he was unloved when he was here, suddenly the missing piece in the days after he left, not spoken about for the entirety of last season and then has come up again.

Nevermind that the point people are making is how difficult it is to be so intense in our midfield. So to make the Gini theory come true, it would have to be that he is the only midfielder in the history of Klopp's management career to survive so many years of playing under Klopp which would then disprove the theory that our midfield is currently old and tired. Never mind that his form fell off a cliff, never mind that he then suffered a massive injury and isn't even playing.

14.) 16 Jan 2023
16 Jan 2023 11:29:22
Funny how he was called ghost on here but he is the reason we are struggling?

15.) 16 Jan 2023
16 Jan 2023 12:23:04
Fatwallet mate not by everyone. They're many kopites here who appreciated Gini and still keep on talking about him on live chats.

It was same with Thiago when he replaced Gini not many were sure at the time.

16.) 16 Jan 2023
16 Jan 2023 12:41:45
He was that good that PSG moved him on after 6 months!

17.) 16 Jan 2023
16 Jan 2023 12:58:00
We also didn't appreciate it at the time but that 19/ 20 midfield had depth. Ox and Naby were still useful players at the time, and to an extent so where Shaqiri and Lallana.

Won't look the same now because most of those players are still here now and way over the hill. But in 19/ 20 we had 7/ 8 perfectly capable central midfield players - and that was a team that was accused of not having enough depth.

18.) 16 Jan 2023
16 Jan 2023 13:01:04
Who cares what he did post Liverpool?

Gini was a footballers football player at Liverpool.

Klopp and the rest of the players loved him for a reason.

19.) 16 Jan 2023
16 Jan 2023 13:13:30
Being a good fit for one team doesn’t necessarily mean it works out at another team unless you’re a superstar a the team plays to your strength.
Thiago has won a plethora of trophies for his other 2 teams, doesn’t mean he will do the same for Liverpool. Which is why it’s important to get the right player for the TEAM and not the one that cost most or has the higher profile.

20.) 16 Jan 2023
16 Jan 2023 13:44:51
That being said @Irish, what exactly is wrong with Thiago? When Klopp decided to sign him he made a decision to move away from “Workmanlike midfield” to more technical one. It was a calculated and conscious decision. How can you say he isn’t the right player?
Now on the player, I don’t find any glaring weakness in him at all.

21.) 16 Jan 2023
16 Jan 2023 13:45:10
Why do you need a crystal ball, Irish Rover? You should always have a succession plan in place in any line of work, but even more so in football when your key players are approaching 30. As a rule of thumb, most players start to decline at around 30 years old, so age is a good barometer. Another key indicator is players who are suffering from injuries frequently.

Most of the fans have been saying Milner, Ox and Keita needed replacing for at least 2 years. The Klopp and Edwards regime repeatedly made the same mistake of giving new and improved contracts to players they shouldn't have. Matip, Gomez, Ox, Milner etc. I'm confident in my assumption we've probably discussed new deals with Keita and Firmino too, so Ward doesn't seem much better than Edwards. Hopefully they both refuse and we dodge the bullets. We even gave Virgil a new deal after his knee injury, before he'd even played a game! Now we can see it has affected him and he's no longer the force he once was but it'stoo late as he's on that salary for another 3 years now. It's a crazy approach that's left our squad bloated, inefficient and on huge salaries.

Adrian, Matip, Fabinho, Ox, Milner, Keita and Firmino as a bare minimum all need to be let go at the end of this season and replaced with younger models on lower wages, and with better availability records. I don't need a crystal ball to see those players are either in decline or on the brink of it. I just need eyes. Fabinho is the only one who has come as a complete shock. I thought he'd have at least 1 more season in him before this happened.

22.) 16 Jan 2023
16 Jan 2023 13:17:38
Gini was an extremely competent midfielder but he was by no means amazing, it’s easy to remember it that way based on how things are going right now. Signings we have made since him in midfield were supposed to be upgrades. That it didn’t turn out entirely that way with injuries (Thiago) and poor form, or both (Keita) does not in hindsight make Wini a better player. He did his simple job superbly in a team that relied heavily on attacking talent to perform, something he rarely contributed to, semi against Barcelona aside. He was never a better or more important player for us than Hendo or Fabinho. If he were still with us he would be just as useless as the current crop of midfielders give the gaps being left in our midfield due to the tactics being played.

23.) 16 Jan 2023
16 Jan 2023 14:00:02
Pity Klopp can't see any of this isn't it?

24.) 16 Jan 2023
16 Jan 2023 14:01:05
I was, and still am, adamant we should have cashed in on Salah instead of offering a new contract. At the time he was at his premium in terms of financial gain if sold yet it did appear he was starting to drop off.
I do also think the new tactics haven't helped him, but I cannot see him hitting his previous from for LFC again and we are now with a player on enormous wages yet again. The fee we could have received coupled with the saving of his new wages could have transformed the entire team over 2 or 3 windows.

25.) 16 Jan 2023
16 Jan 2023 14:09:55
But you need a crystal ball to see that Gini was going to get injured Mk considering he was injury free at Liverpool?

26.) 16 Jan 2023
16 Jan 2023 14:28:52
This is the problem though, there is no succession planning.

Also, how many players do we get a fee for versus players we sell? I remember there was a Bournemouth joke re: selling players but since then? Lallana, Can, Wijnaldum, Shaqiri and Mané have all left on a free. Soon to be followed by Ox, Firmino, Milner and Keita.

Who has/ will be replacing them? And of the 9, 7 are midfielders!

It is a worrying business model, especially considering the wages paid, on top of the transfer fees, agents fees etc.

27.) 16 Jan 2023
16 Jan 2023 14:29:20
Not “replacing” Gini was the start of the decline.
Getting rid of him wasn’t the problem.
All our problems of late Lie in the transfer market.

28.) 16 Jan 2023
16 Jan 2023 14:52:06
We went down hill because we sold Gini? Have a word. For every one game Gini played really well for us, he had about 7 where he was a ghost.

We went down hill because we failed to act in the transfer market when we were on top (like our competitors do), and as and when it was clearly needed, and that includes axing players that are not performing.

{Ed025's Note - i think your spot on bulk..

29.) 16 Jan 2023
16 Jan 2023 15:00:25
We didn't sell him and we did replace him.
Players don't stay around forever and Liverpool is not the be all and end all for most players.
Get over him. He was a solid player, that's it.

30.) 16 Jan 2023
16 Jan 2023 15:48:04
Solid player! We could certainly do with a few of those right now.

31.) 16 Jan 2023
16 Jan 2023 16:34:21
OP, you mean that selling Gini, a player that used to get absolutely slaughtered for hiding during games esp. away from home? The same Gini that Klopp was open to selling before the 18/ 19 season? You mean the same Gini that got absolutely belted for being soft and was literally accused of tanking games and playing within himself in the final 4 months of his final season cos he didn't want to get injured and miss the Euros?

Again, The same Gini who left us to chase the cash at PSG cos Barcelona wouldn't pay him what he wanted and neither would we (no issue with that) YET blatantly lied that he left us cos if the abuse he was getting from his own fans? That Gini? Give your head a wobble, bro.

32.) 16 Jan 2023
16 Jan 2023 17:18:00
markp08, when we won all our major trophies in the last few years that’s what our midfield was, just solid, nothing fancy, no world beaters. I agree, we could do with a few solid midfielders.

33.) 16 Jan 2023
16 Jan 2023 17:51:28
2 or 3 solid players is exactly what we need imo. You can build a team around them because they just keep going. Gini wasn’t everyone’s favourite but you could rotate around him. It kept the other players fresher and we got less injuries. At the moment we can’t rely on anyone in midfield.

34.) 16 Jan 2023
16 Jan 2023 18:18:16
He WAS solid. I don't know what he's like now and I'm not bothered because he's nothing to do with us.
I wouldn't say he was more solid than Henderson, Milner or Fabinho.
They were also solid midfielders that helped us win the League and CL.
I'd like Souness back but it's not going to happen.

35.) 16 Jan 2023
16 Jan 2023 18:32:27
Gini played more games than any of those players Rigsby. Solid AND reliable ?.

36.) 16 Jan 2023
16 Jan 2023 18:47:00
Gini going was no hardship to be fair. Let's not try and pretend he was or is a class player, because he was far from it. The best thing about him was he was always available and a steady player. Obviously he'll be remembered mostly for the goals in the Barcelona game. He wanted to go let's remember. Agree 100% that we didn't kick on in the transfer market following our success. THAT is what's got us where we are. The likes of keita and ox and probably milly should all of been cut loose and replacements for hendo and backup for fab definitely brought in. It takes money to stay on top.

37.) 16 Jan 2023
16 Jan 2023 19:19:20
We do need solid and reliable, I just can’t believe out of hundreds and hundreds of midfielders some how we can’t find one that improves us, is available and is a decent price. It’s not rocket science we have needed someone for years. The best our scouts can do is recommend the most expensive, sought after player in the world. Great job that.