Liverpool banter 247634


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28 Jun 2024 14:40:20
Will we ever have a player as good as Gerrard again? I highly doubt it as players like him just don’t currently exist or only come around once in a lifetime. I struggle with why anyone would disagree.

Please realise that opinions are invalid without any basis in fact and my above opinion is a cold hard fact.

Agree12 Disagree1

28 Jun 2024 15:02:42
Go back to sitting in front of the mirror and admiring yourself.

28 Jun 2024 15:05:20
Alonso was better. There ya go, a cold hard fact.

28 Jun 2024 15:37:47
Alonso was a superstar but he wasn’t better. Gerrard kept this team relevant for years, practically carrying it singlehanded to victory on so many occasions.

28 Jun 2024 16:36:04
In his younger days I thought De Bruyne was the closest thing I'd seen to Gerrard, just not as athletic. But I feel Pep coached a lot of that side of the game out of him, less risky long range efforts and focus on possession. Not that I'm saying De Bruyne is a hell of a player mind, perhaps just a bit shackled under Pep.

28 Jun 2024 16:47:45
It's a really tricky comparison to make across players as it takes in to account not just quality of the player, but influence on the team.

AAR91, I agree that De Bruyne has been that player for City in some seasons.

Just scouring my brain for teams that have been led and pushed onto greater things by an individual player, definitely Gerrard - what we won in the 00s we would not have won without him.

Could you argue a case for CR7, especially at Juventus (given he was surrounded by Galacticos at Real)?

Shearer at Newcastle? He didn't win anything, but the fact they challenged (and boy did we LOVE it! ) was in no small part down to him.

I wouldn't say that we won't see another of his ilk, but I do think they are very few and far between. Combining the physical attributes with the mental and psychological ones.

28 Jun 2024 17:05:30
Same could be said with Saka and Cole palmer.

28 Jun 2024 17:29:00
@Zeddicus Juve had won 6 league titles in a row before Ronaldo joined.

28 Jun 2024 18:09:00
Like Dslatt said, Ronaldo joined a club that had won 6 titles on the trot and was brought in specifically to get Juventus over the line in the Champions League, which they didn't get close to doing during his time there. He won 2 league titles and was part of the team that finally failed to win a title, I'd say he took them backwards more that anything else.

28 Jun 2024 18:35:18
Are we just talking midfielders here?
Because Alisson is a better player than Gerrard.
An argument could be had for VVD and Salah being better players as well.

28 Jun 2024 18:40:18
Yeah, but they did it with elan after he joined Dslatt!

Maybe not the best example, I'm sure there's a few others, if we look at teams (maybe like Newcastle/ Shearer) that may not have won trophies but can attribute their competitiveness to one player then we can consider:

Le Tiss at Soton
Van Persie at Arsenal
Ronaldo at Real in 2012 and Man Utd in 2008
Silva and Yaya at City in 2012
Maradonna for Argentina, especially in 1986
Zidane for Francce in 1998

There's probably more.

28 Jun 2024 19:01:42
You never know what superstar is around the corner.
If it's a solid building I guess.
If it's a glass building you might know the superstar around the corner.
But could be blurry.

Losing the analogy here so let me be frank: Hi, I'm Frank.

This will be my only contribution to this conversation. My point could Not have been better made.

28 Jun 2024 19:30:26
If your opinion is based on 'cold hard fact' then that must mean you can see the future if you know we will never, in the entire history to come of LFC's existence as a football club, have a player like Gerrard again.
Seeing as you can't, your opinion is not cold hard fact at all. It's just that, an opinion. Go look again at what objective and subjective meanings are before you try and ram your subjective opinion down people throats like it was verbatim.

28 Jun 2024 19:55:24
In danger of being controversial here but I think we’d have done better as a collective if we’d sold Gerrard after Istanbul. He was too big for us back then in my opinion. During his time at Liverpool we didn’t have many players close to his level; aside from Fowler, Owen, Alonso, Torres, Sturridge and Suarez I can’t think of anyone else who got close. Gerrard’s peak years only crossed over with Alonso and Torres as well. I think Suarez was the only one as good and as big of a personality.

I think this led to Gerrard becoming bigger than the club off the pitch. But on the pitch, it resulted in people shirking responsibility and adopting the attitude of “give it to Stevie”. There was so much pressure on him to do everything that he kind of had to. He was never that great at free kicks (think he scored around 10 in his career incredibly) but he took so many of them because only really McAllister, Murphy, Aurelio, Coutinho and Suarez were as good as him across nearly 2 decades. He was never consistent at penalties either yet he took virtually all of them when he was on the pitch once he became captain. I can recall maybe Alonso, Kuyt and Sturridge taking one or two but very few got near them because let’s be honest, who is taking the ball off Stevie G?

Gerrard became too good for us on raw ability after Istanbul and therefore rather than instruct him to be a team player Rafa and Rodgers basically just let him do what he wanted on the pitch and take over nearly every dead ball situation regardless of whether he was the correct man for the job. There wasn’t enough players on his wavelength for him to be the best version of himself. If Gerrard had left though I think we could’ve reinvested the money in 2 or 3 good players around that time like Alves, Silva and Villa for example who were all of interest to Rafa but out of our price range. We might then have seen more of a team unit where others had to take on some ownership of the situations on the pitch, instead of becoming a one man team. And Gerrard would have probably become a galactico and played with players not just as good as him, but probably better than him.

It’s a massive IF and I am glad I got to watch Gerrard x Torres either way because that duo to me was just magic as a 12-16 year old Liverpool fanatic. But with the benefit of hindsight, I think Rafa could’ve done more if he’d been able to build a team in his image rather than around Gerrard. Gerrard ended up with too much power on and off the pitch and it’s not even his fault because it was allowed to happen. We just didn’t have enough people at the club with the personality and talent to match him and allow him to be a true football great. By sheer force he went out the game as a Liverpool great but he just didn’t win enough to be a football great in my opinion. Outside of Liverpool fans not many people hold him in quite as high regard. Ex-players regularly name drop him as their toughest opponent so that tells you how good he was. And yet many would have Zidane, Lampard, Scholes, Kaka, De Bruyne, Silva, Ronaldinho, Iniesta, Nedved, Fabregas, Ozil etc ahead of him as an AM just this century. No matter what argument us Reds come up with, they’ll always point to his lack of silverware as a fundamental flaw in the argument advocating for Gerrard being the best. We as a club held him back because I think he had it in him to have a better career than all of them except Zidane. On the flip side I think the sheer size of Gerrard as a person and a player suffocated the lesser individuals around him at Liverpool (of which there was a lot! ) and stopped them from ever expressing themselves or being the best they could be. Gerrard should have won everything and he would’ve if he had players around him who were his level, in my opinion. That would’ve propelled him to new levels and that’s a scary thought.

Sorry, I went off on a very controversial tangent there which most will probably poo-poo anyway! But to answer the OP’s question just in the last 15 years I’d say Alisson, Suarez, Virgil and Salah were as good as Gerrard in their respective positions. I think Trent will be in that bracket by the time he’s in the twilight of his career too. So I think not only will we have another player as good, but we already have had players as good. If you go back pre-Gerrard then I believe Souness, Dalglish, Barnes, Rush, Hansen, Keegan, Hughes etc were as good. Gerrard was world class, but he’s not the generational phenomenon some sections of Liverpool fans claim he was. That is very much a term reserved for the likes of Messi, Maradonna, Pele and maybe Zidane. The term generational implies you only get a player like that once in a generation. It’s massively over used if you ask me. It’s up for debate if C. Ronaldo even falls in that bracket because he wasn’t even the best player of his generation. So I think it’s a reach to say we’ll never have a player as good as Gerrard again as that implies he is not just a generational talent but the greatest player of all time to such an extent we’ll never see the likes of him again. It’s also quite arrogant to claim your opinion is a “cold hard fact”.

{Ed001's Note - just to point out, the money was there to sign Alves, Silva and Villa but Prick Parry blocked the moves.}

28 Jun 2024 20:01:35
Alonso was a better player and is a better mN.

28 Jun 2024 20:06:15
No denying what Gerard did. The superstars are normally strikers another will come along they always do just hope he’s a scouser too.

28 Jun 2024 20:07:25
Alonso was not a better play for LIVERPOOL than Gerrard, don't care how good he was for Bayern and Real. Great player, loved him but Gerrard was better for us during their time together.

28 Jun 2024 20:09:54
Platini was pretty good for France at Euro 84 I’m led to believe.

28 Jun 2024 20:19:07
Davey, "can I still be Garth? "

28 Jun 2024 20:31:44
Irish Rover and June are right.
As good as Alonso was for us, Gerrard was better.
And why is everyone talking about players that never played for Liverpool? ?.

28 Jun 2024 20:56:18
Gerrard was a great, no doubt, but “once in a lifetime”?

So you’re saying he’s better than Dalglish, Souness, Keegan, Rush, Barnes, Alonso, Suarez, Torres, Salah, Fowler, Hansen, Virgil.

Just so we’re clear.

28 Jun 2024 20:42:14
Edd001 why did parry block the moves?

{Ed001's Note - because he is a prick. He was an accountant with absolutely no idea about football.}

28 Jun 2024 21:02:45
Was Parry the same guy who blocked Ronaldo as well Ed001? That’s really annoying he blocked Alves, Silva and Villa. They all went on to be world class. Imagine if we’d had them with Gerrard, Alonso and Torres in the same team ??‍♂️.

{Ed001's Note - yes, why do you think Rafa hated him?}

28 Jun 2024 22:02:12
Yes he was better than all the aforementioned players. I wouldn’t say Gerrard is once in a lifetime and I’d have no qualms people saying Souness and Kenny were better. But Stevie, yeah best of the lot. He carried a woeful set of teams for well over a decade.

28 Jun 2024 22:11:02
Just to add my most likely negative spin on this Gerrard was the better player for us.
I was disappointed overall with Alonso at LFC. I would say he had the better career overall though.

28 Jun 2024 22:17:55
Well I’m saying Kenny was better than Gerrard and I could easily be convinced that Suarez was better. There’s certainly not much in it at their peak.

Obviously Suarez had character flaws and discipline problems but Gerrard had those too.

Don’t get me wrong, Gerrard was a great and a favourite of mine, but “best player”?

It’s hard to compare, but I don’t agree.

28 Jun 2024 22:18:45
The first thing Rick Parry did when he started at Liverpool was try to pull the plug on the McAllister deal cos he thought a player that old was a waste of wages. Houllier was thankfully able to persuade him otherwise.

Tells you everything you need to know about Parry.

On subject, in terms of footballing technique and the number of different things he could do well (pass, cross, shoot from any distance, head, tackle, dribble, link up) Gerrard is up there with the very best. If anything, I think he's under-rated in that respect.

However, he had this thing about wanting and needing to be a central midfielder in the mould of Souness or Roy Keane when tactically he hadn't the head for that. He was too impatient and not clued in enough defensively. He was much better free rolling from the right or playing as a number 10. But he just couldn't seem to accept that for some reason. And it still boggles my mind today.

28 Jun 2024 22:25:53
Alves Carragher Agger Aurelio
Alonso Mascherano
Silva Gerrard Villa

Would have been some team.

28 Jun 2024 23:24:41
Tried to pull the plug on Macca due to him being over 30? Are VictorVaughan and Rick Parry the same person?

28 Jun 2024 23:30:57
Gerrard was better for us than Suarez because he did it for longer. It's all subjective though.
It's difficult to compare players from different footballing eras that played in different positions.
I think he could have played in most of our great sides although he never played in one himself. We had the excellent midfield side with him, Alonso, Mascherano etc and the one when he and Torres combined so well.

29 Jun 2024 06:18:29
In my honest opinion, saying that someone, anyone, is the ‘best ever’ is idiotic . For one thing, you would have needed to see everyone who has gone before and, even if you had, which os clearly ridiculous, you’d need some sort of objective measures which would be virtually impossible given the evolution of the game since the club was formed. Then, of course, you’d need to have foresight to know who is going to play for us in the future and, again, place them in the context of how the game will have evolved by the time they are playing.

Again, for the OP to state a single player is the best ever and it’s a fact is, in fact, not a fact, it is an opinion. Gerrard was a very good player and, on the pitch inspirational within the context of the club. But, in the context of the time he was a big fish in a relatively small pond - same, for instance, as Matt
Le Tissier at Southampton - but, in my opinion, and based on the time I have been watching Liverpool, I don’t believe that he is the best player I’ve seen at the club.

29 Jun 2024 09:08:48
Didn’t you try telling me not so long ago that an opinion can be fact?.

29 Jun 2024 09:16:49
Best player I have seen at the club? Dalglish. No contest. Absolute genius of a footballer, had vision, thunderous striker of the ball and never gave up the ball, unbelievable shielding technique.

He was jaw-dropping to watch, we were blessed. Especially as Keegan had just left and we thought he was irreplaceable.

29 Jun 2024 09:35:10
Who decides what is fact and what is opinion?

29 Jun 2024 15:11:06
Facts can be objectively verified.
Opinion is subjective.

29 Jun 2024 15:42:43
I know that, Ron. But by who? ?
It all depends on who objectively verifying the fact, doesn't it?
I'm only joking but you know what I mean.
I hope!

29 Jun 2024 22:07:37
Who isn't important, it's the facts to back up a comment based on your chosen factor. I. e I could easily say Suarez is the best player to ever play for LFC but that's my subjective opinion based on his talent.
Or, and just to prove a point, I could say Phil Neal is the best player on LFC history because he is our most decorated player believe it or not. Do I actually think that? No, but it's a fair enough comment based on objective fact. Meanwhile Djime Traore has a CL medal.
Ultimately most of everything is opinion, I just get annoyed when people talk like theirs is fact and other people are stupid for not agreeing with them, and that goes for some of the posters and some of the Eds.

{Ed014's Note - I can tell you for a fact that the majority of the time my opinion is utter bollox!

29 Jun 2024 23:06:52
Gerrard was the best midfield player the premier league has ever seen. There’s no other player in any other team that has single handedly dragged a mediocre team to as many major trophies as he did.

The only other player I can think of in any league who had a similar effect on their team other than Gerrard was Maradona at Napoli. True one man teams.

I guess what I’m saying is Gerrard was a generational talent. The very best of his era. Is he once in a lifetime? I sincerely hope we don’t find out because if we do it means we have the likes of Poulson, Ngog and Djimi Traore in the team again and need a saviour.

29 Jun 2024 21:24:32
@TIR, yes you did - gold star for remembering.

@Rigsby, for my sins I studied Politics and Philosophy at Uni (yes, it was a complete doss, imho ?. In fact, it might even be a fact) . We had a course of lectures about belief - justified true belief, if you will. That would probably be seen as fact and is, apparently also objectively verifiable, by those who verify things objectively (probably) .

30 Jun 2024 06:18:28
Yep mine too Ed, and there'd be far less inane derogatory comments and bitching on this forum if everyone admitted that for themselves as well. Guess I'm getting a little too old and preachy though!

{Ed014's Note - my wife tells me I’m a grumpy old man but luckily she still loves me all the same! ?

Agree too mate, facts are facts and opinions, like they say are like buttholes, everyone has one and we know what comes out of them!



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