Liverpool Banter Archive October 13 2014

13 Oct 2014 20:22:28
I feel a little sorry for Sterling being pushed into the full England squad, he is only a kid really he should be playing for the under 21's by rights, but because of his obvious talent (which England lack) he is being overplayed by them and he is also being overplayed by Liverpool, since Suarez has gone and Sturridge has been injured and the in effectiveness of the other forwards (up to now) a lot has been dropped on the kid, now we have BR and Hodgson are arguing in public over it, they both need a slap, they will burn this lad out at this rate.

Firstly playing U21's rather than senior england isn't going to reduce the number of games he plays.

Secondly he played pretty much 6 months Premier League (in the team) followed by World Cup action to have approx 3 to 4 weeks off to restart pre-season.

Regardless of height his body is probably still developing; so he should be managed. It's unfortunate that he didn't get the summer off to recover (as most 19 year old's would've) then again I bet he was more than happy playing in a world cup.

Spot on, Jack!

Fair comment! Hoola

Just a quick question can players refuse to play for their country? is their a way out i mean barring full retirement from international football? i'm pretty much in the dark as to how this all works.

{Ed002's Note - They can say they no longer wish to be selected.}

13 Oct 2014 17:41:08
Here is a question for Ed's and others. If Wilshere said he needed a rest, would have Hodgson have come out and told the media, and if so, would the media reaction be the same? I have a feeling that Hodgson would not have mentioned it in the first place.

{Ed002's Note - This has nothing to do with Wilshere or Arsenal. If Arsenal had said to the England manager that their player needed a rest I am sure it could have been figured out. But that would be the club saying it - which they did not in terms of Sterling. If Sterling thinks he is not up to it and needs a break he should be talking to the club beforehand - and they, if they managed the players better would know that. However, that is not the case and we are where we are. Suck it up and move on - don't start trying to deflect or to bring in any obscure whatif questions - it gets embarrassing really quickly.

A better subject for discussion would be "Is a player who needs an afternoon nap worth £6M or so a year?"}

I am not defending the club here. I just think there is too much media focus on Sterling, and it puts pressure on him. Even if he performs well, it is not going to be good enough because the bar is now set so high for him. One thing I can agree on is that England have a job to do with the players they have, and Brendan needs to start better managing the players. Hopefully he has learnt his lesson.

{Ed002's Note - He is a player doing well that other clubs have an interest in. There will be attention. This happens regularly and is no big deal. There will be offers arriving regardless of what will likely happen later this week. Social media and a manager with foot and mouth aside, if the club and player act professionally then this is business as usual.}

13 Oct 2014 18:48:00
The whole thing is embarrassing. The club, Rodgers and Hodgson handled it terribly however I completely disagree with people having a go at sterling for taking a rest.

If Sturridge had said that he needed a rest in training, we wouldn't have lost him for the last few weeks. So full respect to sterling for looking after himself.

13 Oct 2014 19:13:43
I agree with the Eds. All the parties involved are at fault here.
I still believe We shouldn't been in this position itself.
And going against national team isn't the right thing.

13 Oct 2014 19:20:14
It really isn't a big deal. He felt he wasn't up to it and was honest about it. It's not like he went on strike and refused to play. Getting paid 6m a year doesn't make you Superman, you know.

The whole LFC heirachy should SERIOUSLY think about taking a college class on PR>

13 Oct 2014 19:32:55
So what has Rodgers said over this? I haven't heard any response from him from anywhere.

13 Oct 2014 21:44:14
He did say couple weeks ago. Sterling is a super human

13 Oct 2014 22:09:45
Storm in a tea cup to make headlines. Next subject

13 Oct 2014 15:59:48
I'd like to give my verdict on Sakho.

After watching him for PSG, France U21's and the senior national team, I have to say I was absolutely elated when we signed him. A strong, physical leader at the back who possessed huge confidence in his own third and was capable of producing a goal from time to time, it was no surprise Real Madrid and Barcelona were courting him for several years. It was in fact us who beat the rest to his signature, after falling out with seniors at PSG we were welcoming in my eyes one of the best centre backs in Europe at a bargain price for £18m(approx.) However, Mamadou has come under huge scrutiny and from time to time, by his exceptionally high standards, has performed well and truly below what's expected of him. When I look at his performances in a Liverpool shirt, I am not seeing the same guy, the same leader and the same confident young man that we bought from Paris. I am seeing a man who has completely lost his confidence, looks vulnerable when playing the ball from defence and doesn't seem to trust the man he's defending next too. Many could, and Ed001 would be the first to blame Skrtel which to a certain can see what he means. The gaps Skrtel leaves makes Mamadou's job more difficult for sure. However I don't agree that Skrtel or anyone else for that matter should take all the blame for Mamadou's poor form. As I always say, and say to the kids I coach, 2 thirds of the game relies on mental state, the other third is physical state. If a player isn't mentally confident and lacks any kind of belief you are only going to get 33% player. The mind is the most powerful component of the human body, not your legs. They say as humans we only use 10% of our brain, If we used up to 50% experts say we could travel time, fly and teleport. Amazing aye? Now, I can't promise if we get Sakho's mental state up he's going to turn into superman or anything but there's a great defender somewhere in there, its finding a way of unlocking his potential and getting the confidence out of him. Maybe a song might help? 'Mamadou the hump Mamadou the hump hump'? I don't know but if we can get him believing, I am sure that's we will have a huge asset on our hands & the fans will start believing too.

{Ed001's Note - I would not blame Skrtel for Sakho's poor form at all. I think you need to apologise.}

I am sure, adamant in fact I have seen you say something of the sort some 6 months or so back. Ill word it slightly different, you said something of Sakho isn't the problem, Skrtel is. Not slating you be the way buddy, think you are doing a wonderful job interacting with the Liverpool supporters. By the way, if you didn't say either of those things and its me hallucinating then my sincerest apologies.

I said I wouldn't blame him then, that Skrtel was at fault for the defence's poor play. But that is not the same as blaming him for Sakho's poor form, which he has shown of late.

None of our CB`s are playing well.

Right you are. A apology to yourself and ill leave a pint behind the Winchester with your name all over it Ed001.

{Ed001's Note - no worries and you will have to drink that for me mate.}

13 Oct 2014 22:12:58
Is it just me or does anyone else get the feeling Sakho might be wanting a move in January?

I don't think sakho has performed that poorly in all honesty. He's been better than the other 2 when playing.

13 Oct 2014 10:41:38
Just to let you know, I am going to try and post more regularly with thoughts on the club over the course of the season. I will stick them on the others page, or whatever we end up calling it, to allow you all to get a bit more into the discussion if you want to.

The first one is up now, about John Achterberg and his role with the club. Is he the right choice as our goalkeeping coach?

13 Oct 2014 11:03:12
Ed001

One request. First of all I appreciate you doing this. But could you post your questions on the banter site? You can be the star attraction for that page . Please!

{Ed001's Note - I have posted something on there and I will post more on there as well. I am going to try and post regularly on both.}

Im not sure if its him or the keeper, I think its 6 of one and half a dozen of the other.

One thing I did hear from *coff *coff Gary Neville *coff *coff when he was doing his bit with carrager, was about his body positioning being too low. Which to be fair to the man made sence and seemed to be a good point. i'm not sure who you lay blame on for that, but simon has made some good saves this season. Not many but some decent shot stoppers. Think with a bit more competition could get the best out of him. Think it may be a bit harsh on the coach to go for him straight off

I've also seen that analysis by Gary Neville and he does raise a fair point.

From what I've seen since Mignolet has been at the club he doesn't seem comfortable with using his feet/legs to keep out or block shots. Two good examples of keepers who do this are DDg and Courtois - both are good shot stoppers and also utilise their whole body to make saves.

This might explain why Simon takes such a low position, he's just more hands on. Just a thought.

I know little about him, but one would think a coach would make players better and you'd be pretty hard pressed to say he's improved either Reina or Mignolet.

{Ed001's Note - Gary Neville is only saying something that has been said on here many times over the past couple of seasons, by myself and others. It is hardly startling nor insightful to listen to the crew there telling him what they have read......}

Well what's your take on it edd?

{Ed001's Note - he has been badly coached, as he uses his hands for things that he should use his feet for. A good coach should have spotted it and cured him of it.}

The least that is required from a GK coach is to keep the player motivated and ensure they don't become complacent.

However, a good GK at 26 years old should already have the qualities needed to perform at this level.

Put it this way, if we had Courtois and Jones would we be looking to sign Valdes? I mean, how many games does a second GK feature in per season?

In my view the club have acknowledged that Mignolet hasn't worked out and are willing to take action by bringing in a new GK. Whether Valdes is a better option is a different topic, but In answer to the ed's question, I think the GK coach could be part of the problem, however the greater problem lies with the GK himself.

Red Rum

13 Oct 2014 19:00:39
It doesn't look good for him on the surface with Reina's relative loss of form and no improvement from Mignolet so far. That being said, it's hard to really know from out here how much is down to Achterberg and how much is down to Reina & Migs.

Now Reina did have his own MO in terms of reading players that I haven't seen from too many other keepers. A good example of this was a few years ago we were playing Sunderland and instead of closing down a forward who had got through into the channel like every other keeper in world football would have, Reina waited on his line and more or less dared the forward (might've been Kenwyne Jones) to beat him - and he didn't. Now when he got stuff like that wrong, it did look embarrassing a few times. I remember another game he anticipated a shot across goal but it actually went in at the near post and looked REALLY soft. So I could see a new goalie coach trying to take him away from that and that might've screwed him a bit. Or maybe Reina just wasn't a happy bunny at the club and lost focus we know he had his head turned by Barca.

And maybe Migs genuinely doesn't and never will have the concentration and command of his area to be a goalie at a top club. That's a bigger problem than his body position when saving shots, imo.

It's hard to know.

13 Oct 2014 20:05:24
So far, it doesn't look too good for him with Pepe and Migs.

13 Oct 2014 09:46:34
Raheem Sterling is a major doubt for Liverpool's trip to QPR on Sunday, after Roy Hodgson threw him under a bus last night.

{Ed002's Note - I understand Sterling will have signed a new deal by the weekend. I rather hope that Rodgers says nothing of the little rest and just lets it blow over. Perhaps a little thought towards why other clubs manage their youngsters better - having them concentrate on stamina and fitness whilst getting experience on loan.}

13 Oct 2014 10:01:33
Sterling is a 19 year old Kid and needs proper rest, what's the surprise there.
Ofcourse We could Expect BR coming out with another interview.

I have no problem any manager giving a young player a rest when it's needed ed. It just seems rather naive of the self professed eloquent Hodgson to bring to light a private conversation between himself and Raheem.
He didn't have to say what he did. Even the whole Rooney substitution situation was made into a farce.
So what if he was going to take him off and changed his mind, was it really that big of a deal.
He's really just making a rod for his own back and it creates more tension between Liverpool and England. I'm sure Raheem will have lost respect for him seeing himself all over the press and the net.
He just handled the situation badly and then tried to justify it by saying it was Liverpool's responsibility to handle him more carefully.
Why would you expect Rodgers not to respond to that? Is it no his right to defend his player who is under attack from all n sundry.
I appreciate your candor and enjoy your replies but this time I have to disagree with you.
Nobody knows exactly what Raheem said to him or in what context the conversation went. Hodgson was wrong to justify not starting him that way and blaming his club situation for his 'theory'.

{Ed002's Note - The Hodgson comment was in response to the previous lie told by Rodgers about his discussions with the England Manager and in response to a very aggressive question about why RS did not play.}

13 Oct 2014 10:42:00
Sim

Hodgson is the manager of English National team. He wants the best players available for the International games. what's wrong in it?
He rates Sterling high and would want him to feature as many as possible. You can't stop National managers to pick you players unless there is a major injury.

Relying on a 19 year old kid to save your season is not acceptable.

Harry you don't half talk some rubbish on this site. Who said anything about not picking him for club or country or relying on him to save the season. Yet Hodgson brought him on to save the game last night. The post was about how Hodgson handled a private conversation between a player and a manager regardless of club or country. If you are going to criticise someone's opinion at least explain why you are doing so. You do the same to every poster on this site. Maybe if you offered some reasoning to your posts you might gain a little more credibility.

13 Oct 2014 11:31:25
Sim

Sorry if you are offended. I didn't mean it. thought you would relate the conversation with the situation.

I'm not offended in the slightest and what you said had absolutely no relevance to the conversation whatsoever and that is the point. Sterling is a squad player for club and country. He gets picked or doesn't like every other squad player. What was said between him and the manager should have stayed private. That was the point of the conversation.

Reporters are paid to ask the questions though Ed. Surely the manager should be expected to protect the players both national and club managers to that effect. I have no problem like I said about Raheem being dropped by Roy or Brendan for whatever reason they decided to drop him. I don't agree with however, the player being hung out to dry because a reporter asked a question that didn't sit well with him.
He made out he was the eloquent one last week as opposed to Rooney because of his accent. He seems to be the one with a case of foot in mouth disease at the moment.
You know as well as I do that the 1st question asked to Rodgers is going to be about Raheem at his next press conference and so the cycle continues until the next international break next month.

{Ed002's Note - Reporters are not paid to ask questions. IN this case a particularly aggressive reporter has pushed the issue. I would not try and find any excuses for Rodgers' concerted and continued ability to do with the press.}

13 Oct 2014 12:00:27
Ed002 you made the comment about Rodgers should understand how other clubs treat kids. But to be fair Sterling isn't like other kids, and neither was Michael Owen for example. Or Messi. Some kids are destined for the first team earlier than others.

I agree they do need to be managed differently when they get there, and this may be as much mental as physical concerns, as the weight of expectation of playing for a club like Liverpool and your national team must be massive. Plus for Sterling the added pressure of being seen as the saviour for two struggling teams at the moment

{Ed002's Note - Clearly if he can't get past the start of October without being tired out then there is an issue. He is either (a) not mentally and physically fit. (b) play-acting, possibly under the instruction of others, or (c) stressed from all of this pressure being put on him.}

Loan Ed 2?

Loaned to a Championship club to be booted six foot in the air week in, week out?

Why not play them in the Premier league with better players, fitter players and more experienced opponents?

Throw them in at the deep end.

With the greatest of respect, the loan signing of youngsters is for experience. If a youngster is good enough, they play straight away.

{Ed002's Note - Obviously working a treat then Davey. All of Liverpool's recent success under Rodgers must be due to his throwing the youngsters in. Like it or not, Liverpool do not treat younger players at all well. There is no planning for their career path and a number simply want to move on and restart their careers elsewhere.}

Ed I haven't made any excuse for Rodgers but its obvious now its the 1st question to be asked. My point was the England manager divulging a private conversation to the world.
Surely in future players of any team will be reluctant to tell him anything if its going to be spread to every media source.
His bad handling of a situation should not be justified because another person handled another situation badly. That's childish at best.

{Ed002's Note - No, the England manager was pressed on the matter and an accusation was made by someone from the Liverpool press. The problem is with Liverpool who should now simply say nothing and give the kid a break if he needs one. The problem is not with England, don't try and shift the focus away from Liverpool.}

I'm sorry Ed, but I haven't made it about Liverpool. My point was about Hodgson and his revelations of a private conversation. You brought Liverpool into it by saying Rodgers should say nothing in retort.
Two wrongs don't make a right. Hodgson also said his clubs start to the season was the reason for his form as his 'theory'.
Rodgers did rest him albeit for the wrong game as it turned out. I'm not shifting focus away from Liverpool but I can imagine the uproar in the future if a premiership manager turns around and says a player cannot join up for the national team because he is too tired. Do you see where I'm coming from?

{Ed002's Note - I explained - Hodgson was subject to an accusation being pressed by a journalist and answered honestly. I cannot see any issue in the future if a player is not available for England if a player is not fit to play for England due to mental or physical tiredness.}

13 Oct 2014 14:20:20
Ed002 i'd have a word with carragher and Rio ferdinand over the fitness and fatigue thing.

{Ed002's Note - Carro and Ferdo had lots of opportunities to rest.

I find it interesting nobody has mentioned the first sentence I wrote on this whole thread.}

Edd02 can i just ask, where is it you get all your information from on rogers and the "lies" and not having career paths?

Just seems a lot of players love playing for him, seems mad if he doesn't have any sort of plan for there career in place.

Thanks

{Ed002's Note - I will refer you to the previous answer - I have not mentioned "lies".

You seem to be simply making this up to try and deflect.}

13 Oct 2014 15:20:11
Genuine question out of curiosity. Was curious to see what the Eds opinion of how young players should be taken care of/handled? Agree that it does seem to be that certain youngsters of just left to sort themselves out when their time at our club doesn't work. Just curious as to how you think the club should help guide them to having a better/more successful career? Think we have a lot of young talent that are highly rated but end up in poor leagues after leaving liverpool?

Second questions is similar but to do with loans. Do you think there is enough thought as to what teams players are loaned to? For example it looks like loaning texeira to brighton is working well (think it well help him adapt to the physical side of english football) and admittedly haven't been able to follow his but was unsure about loaning Ibe to the championship (although derby isn't a bad shout). Think he is physically developed enough but unsure if derby would help him develop the technical/tactical side of his game?

{Ed002's Note - (1) Younger players, particularly those arriving from abroad, need to have their time filled and not be left on their own. Many clubs (Manchester United is one example) have them live communally with a rather dated parental guidance approach. Others clubs offer them apartments in the same building and ensure that they spend time together and with friends. Most clubs have an ex-player act as liaison with constant contact with the club when on loan in the UK. When overseas players of some clubs are made to get involved locally one way or another - an example is on EPL side who had players doing charity work one day a week, had them learning languages on another - things to keep them occupied. It makes an enormous difference. (b) Clubs build relationships that see players move on loan - and those relationships are not simply built around training and playing time, but on what the players are doing the rest of their time. I have one really good example - One EPL side has build a new high-tech gym for a local school close to where they have players on loan. The players use the gym under the guidance of instruction from England to work on their physique. The players have to provide occasional footballing training to the youngsters at the school. This came about when someone from the club became aware that the players were sitting around at home after training watching TV and playing their video games.

Some clubs have had problems with young players getting involved with the wrong people. All clubs want to make sure that doesn't happen and are working toward a resolution.}

Don't know why what i posted before didn't get through about 2 pros sticking up for Sterling in Ferdy and Carra
But Raheem has played 9 games in 30 days.
Figure in there one was 120 minutes vs boro, 2 champions league games etc. These weren't what you might call cakewalks. Also put in the training week in week out, the world cup he featured heavily in. It's been a fairly long summer/utumn for Raheem, then throw int hose 9 games in 30 days, he might have just needed a rest. Also figure into this the way different muscle fibres etc work for example, black men having more fast twitch muscle fibres and being quicker, he's 19. It's no longer as simply as. ''it's only october what's wrong with you.''

He's received a fair bit of praise for actually coming out an admitting he wasn't 100% sure some players will die to play for their country even when only 50% but we also saw how not being 100% (costa for spain) leads to extremely poor performances too.( although the spanish team have been terrible lately)

13 Oct 2014 16:09:03
Thanks for the reply, is interesting the different approaches!

13 Oct 2014 19:35:48
You mean the good bit Ed002? Sterling signing a new contract?

{Ed002's Note - Right.}

13 Oct 2014 19:36:10
{Ed002's Note - The Hodgson comment was in response to the previous lie told by Rodgers about his discussions with the England Manager and in response to a very aggressive question about why RS did not play.}


Sorry did I not see the word lie there?

Or are you deflecting?

{Ed002's Note - Now go back and read what you wrote. I have no idea why I have to put up with idiots like you.}

13 Oct 2014 19:36:51
Ed002 Which premier league club do you think has the best approach regarding young players?

{Ed002's Note - I am not going to get in to that.}