10 Apr 2024 14:01:15
A gem of a beauty from Paul Ince. "Mohammed Salah is not a world-class player but yes, he is a world class goalscorer".
What does one expect from the forwards, in the first place, if it's not to score? Do I want tricks and dribbling and speed in the forwards? Yes, but only if it serves goalscoring. I'll still take the slow guy who can't dribble or do tricks, as long as he scores.
The nonsense some of these supposedly "learned guys" serve up, is beyond belief. And this guy really sounds like he is really up deep inside his own backside. ?.
10 Apr 2024 14:11:43
Think Ince is just jumping on the Mo Salah bandwagon, yes Mo is slowing down but he is getting the goal or assist.
10 Apr 2024 14:58:33
I might get pelters for this or even worst case get called a coward again ?.
But I kind of agree with Ince that Salah isn’t a world class player anymore but he does have attributes and moments that could be defined as world class and is still an excellent footballer.
For me the word world class gets thrown about far too much and the world class player and world class goal scorer is perfectly summed up with Haaland.
Personally I believe there’s only been a handful of world class all round players over time but lots of players who have attributes that are world class.
Longevity plays a huge part in it and Salah has 100% nailed this hence why I say he is no longer world class as it’s very easy to argue that he is no longer the same player in 23/ 24 that he was in 17/ 21 when he was world class.
It’s only my opinion mind and would love to hear others thoughts.
Great topic of discussion this Aray.
10 Apr 2024 15:04:18
Yes but why go into hyperbole and use extreme terms when all he is doing is showing his utterly confused brain and confusing the mind of readers? What he said does not sound the least bit rational if you know football, and he is supposed to know football too well. It's like saying Alisson is not a shot stopper but still a great goalkeeper.
10 Apr 2024 15:19:04
Jk23, I guess a lot of it rests on the definition of world-class, and I know that each one of us probably has his own. That's fine. So much of football and everything that goes with it, is subjective and open to debate.
Yes, Salah's powers are dimishing. But for me he is still up there. How many of us think that he can't produce the 20 goals per season this year? Or next year or the year after? And then, there you have it. We stumble back into the definition of "world -class" again.
What I didn't like about Ince's quote was the use of absolutes that seem contradictory to me, and then also being cute about it. From a guy like him, you would expect incisive meaninful stuff, not this drivel that has no meaning.
10 Apr 2024 15:29:48
Ince is a pillock.
10 Apr 2024 15:31:20
Salah might be having a dip in form at the moment (even though he is still scoring almost every match) but I think history with Salah tells us to avoid jumping to conclusions that this means he's in decline or no longer top level. In form Salah gets into most teams - including national sides - in the world. That, in my opinion, makes him world class.
I do think we have to acknowledge that the stunning solo goals, slalom dribbles into the box and brilliant curled finishes into the far corner appear to be mainly in the past now but Salah has adapted and evolved quite brilliantly such that the goals and assists continue. I think it's most notable how he has replaced those unstoppable dribbles from the left flank in towards goal with those brilliant balls in behind, especially that one he plays from quite deep with the outside of his boot.
His evolution reminds me a little bit of what Giggs did and is the reason why I think Salah would be good for us for at least another couple of years.
All of that said, his all round contribution in the last three matches hasn't been enough from a player of his seniority and ability at this stage of the season. I wouldn't object to resting him tomorrow evening and give Elliott a deserved start. Salah will be back though.
As for Ince; surely one of the thickest ex-players to be afforded air time on tv and radio.
10 Apr 2024 15:58:56
I listened to it on the radio live as he made the comments in a conversation with Andy Goldstein and honestly, Goldstein was just coaxing him into a soundbite that would make a good clickbait headline.
Having heard the comments in context, I don't see the need to have such a reactionary view on what Ince said. He followed this line up by saying Salah is therefore world class. The statement about him not being a world class footballer was purely with regard to his all around game. Something I regularly see and hear Liverpool fans saying online and down the pub. Ince did also go on to say he hopes Liverpool win the league so he wasn't trying to be anti-Liverpool. He just got led down a path where whatever he said was going to make a headline for Talksport that would generate a reaction. If he'd called him a complete forward with no weaknesses you'd have rival fans all over Ince instead.
Ince was actually very good on the show by the way and he's the first ex-United pundit I've heard who gave a balanced view on Mainoo, pointing out how he was a huge part of why Man United were so weak in midfield against us, despite his wonder goal. Most other people don't want to acknowledge that Mainoo is all over the place positionally, doesn't track runners and gives the ball away sloppily all over the pitch. Instead they focus purely on his neat footwork, 5 yard passes and the 2 wonder goals he's scored. It was refreshing to hear an ex-United pundit not going over the top with hyperbole about a kid who has thus far looked out of his depth in multiple games but has albeit showed in flashes that he could be special.
10 Apr 2024 16:12:00
Are you alright MKS? Having a bad day, is it?
It may seem "reactionary" to you, but it's my opinion. As always you have the choice of reading and responding or not reading and not responding. But spare me the judgemental stuff, alright?
I know you for well over a decade on these pages, we read each other's posts, but I don't ever recall reading such overbearing judgemental stuff from you. There are many others on here who thrive on stifling opinions and putting others down. I didn't expect it from you.
If you can't reciprocate the respect you are given, then better not to respond or interact. Have a nice day.
10 Apr 2024 16:16:42
I am donning my hard hat for this one. I wouldn't say Salah has ever been world class (based on what I determine to be world class) . Hear me out. In my opinion, world class means regularly being a step above the best players in the world (which he is) but also regularly delivering on the biggest stages in football and winning the big games with individual brilliance. Think Messi, the Ronaldos et al.
For me, Salah has never performed in those big, one off games, the finals either for club or country. In fact, I'd say his performances in finals is actually quite lacking and that, for me, is why he isn't world class.
10 Apr 2024 16:47:56
Ey up. Just to have my turn stirring up the pot. If you start your post with, “gem of a beauty, ” then criticise someone else’s wording without context, you’re liable to get a retort of some sort.
FWIW, I thought the same as MKS before I even read his post and without the context he provided.
Both statements can be true at the same time. I wouldn't call Jota world class by any stretch, but he time and time again proves himself to be a world class goal scorer. Plenty of defenders are world class tacklers, but are terrible at positioning. Great shot stoppers flapping at crosses etc.
To be world class you need more than one string to your bow - unless you’re Robin Hood.
That said, Salah would still be welcome in 99.9% of teams in the world. That makes him world class in my book.
10 Apr 2024 17:02:06
Aray 100% agree and football is subjective and some people will rate players that others don’t which is the beauty of the game.
In me saying I don’t believe Salah is still a world class player it doesn’t take away what I do actually think of him and I love watching him play for us week in week out.
If it was up to me he’d be signing a new contract and staying with us for a few more years. I know fans are concerned with his wages.
But I’ve very much come to terms with the fact that my tickets, Liverpool shirts, merchandise and sky tv bill etc will be exactly the same price next season whether he is here or not so why should I care what the club are going to pay him, or any other player at that.
10 Apr 2024 17:05:34
This the guy who couldn't watch a penalty shootout, let alone take one and he calls himself the guv’nor?
Mans a tool.
10 Apr 2024 17:22:57
Apparently Jota for two seasons used to play as if he had never seen a football before as he was SO poor on the ball.
Which makes you question is Jurgen Klopp world class because he played him over 80 times. In which he was that poor he managed to hit that round white thing in between the posts 34 times.
10 Apr 2024 17:27:58
Insisted on being called Guv’nor.
Still hate that he played for us.
10 Apr 2024 17:32:32
Agree to be fair, salah does little other than score goals and even that’s stoped.
{Ed025's Note - "does little more than score goals" Mr Bean?.....hardest job in football mate and will take some replacing imo..
10 Apr 2024 17:55:14
Apart from scoring, assisting and helping out defensively what has Salah ever done for us.
10 Apr 2024 18:20:05
I think the best way to look at it and I think most will agree I think salahs general all round play will be replaced very easily his goals won’t .
Goals win games
Therefore salah will be missed when he leaves not for helping out Bradley or hugging the touchline or cutting in on his left but putting the ball in the net which is the aim of the game .
True great and will be missed enormously when he leaves . But we will still carry on and score goals we always do.
10 Apr 2024 18:46:51
Paul Mince
Thick as.
10 Apr 2024 18:50:52
Only 3 players have more assist than Salah in the league yet he does little other than score goals? Absolute clown.
10 Apr 2024 18:55:40
He's right. He's not world class anymore. For a long time he was, but not anymore. Just my opinion though.
10 Apr 2024 19:21:39
I'd argue that Salah was only world class that one season. After that he's been decent to really good only.
10 Apr 2024 20:59:20
Paul Ince renowned football scout.
Except he’s wrong.
Salah is/ was absolutely world class.
I could write more but I can’t believe there’s any doubt.
10 Apr 2024 21:06:52
Paul is right. He was all around world class but not anymore, just goal scoring. It's why City are better without Haaland and Utd were better without Ronaldo etc.
Doesn't make him less a legend, it's just realistic. Gerrard died down, so did Torres, everyone does. I would just say many who used to criticise Jota for only 'scoring' (when he actually does far more and always has) seem to the same as those defending Salah. See what's in front of you. Salahs numbers are great because he world class ability to do something mad difficult that others couldn't in the moment, but then spend 95% of the game wasting chances, giving the ball away, having horrible touches etc. His time has come I'm afraid. Doesn't detract from what's he's done. Fact is as the eds say footballers are transient employees and they have shelf lives. Nothing personal.
10 Apr 2024 21:53:55
Love it, blokes feeling himself back in after nearly 3 months out and he hasn't got it anymore. Could still win the golden boot and score 30 plus goals from the wing while playing in the worlds best league but yeh. he's not a world class player! We've been here before with Salah after a couple of poor performances, i can see him going gial crazy in these last 12 games.
10 Apr 2024 22:31:04
@JK23 totally agree with your original post. Some words and phrases lose their original meaning over time and ‘legend’ and ‘world class’ are examples. There’s also the acronym ‘Goat’ which is used by adolescents who tend to pick a player that they have seen play (albeit on the telly) who might even genuinely be world class and call them the goat.
I think with Mo you could make a serious case that he was the best player in his position in the world for at least a couple of seasons but I’m not sure that makes him world class to be honest but it is fair to say that he had (still has? ) some skills that are probably at world class level.
I am not a fan of Ince but I understand what he is trying to say and I think he might be right.
10 Apr 2024 22:49:09
Jude, Mo Salah is still class but he won't win the Golden Boot or get 30 plus goals, , I hopethat he does but he seems to be near the end at the top of the best league in the world, its it's sad but it happens to every footballer.
11 Apr 2024 02:12:01
Salah is world class, it's kind of gobsmacking to read people thinking otherwise. Even now, which team wouldn't have him? he's still scoring goals and providing assists and is a game changer, big time! We will miss him when he's gone, that is for certain.
11 Apr 2024 07:30:57
I always defined 'world class' as - If there was a squad of players that were made up of the best players from around the world, would they be included? That's my definition anyway.
Salah gets into that squad, particularly based on how many goals he would score, hence in my opinion, world class.
11 Apr 2024 08:02:21
All players are replaceable, hard cold fact but it continuley happens, just differing styles but always a new hero found or that we already have, we did great without him and i think a spell on the side might benefit the team again, if we get big money IMO we have no choice but to sell, absolute legend on the top shelf but the club moves on, will always be this way.
11 Apr 2024 09:03:38
Ar Ay, sorry if I didn't make it clear enough mate but I was intending to criticise Goldstein/ Talksport, not you. My point was that the comments when in context don't deserve a reactionary response, but Talksport and other media outlets haven't publicised them in context. They've done it as clickbait and soundbites. They goaded him into making comments they could monetise. I was only really looking to add the context to the discussion before Ince got lynched for something he didn't actually say or at the very least intend to say as it's come across in the wider media.
If I hadn't been listening to the show when he made the comments I would've definitely had the same reaction as you based off of what has been reported out, because that is what they wanted. They're very good at it which is why they make so much money from football fans. They know how emotional we all are about our teams and favourite players.
Sorry if you felt judged though mate, wasn't my intention at all, hence why I never name dropped you and focused my original reply more on defending Ince and calling out Goldstein/ Talksport.
11 Apr 2024 13:07:02
Wouldnt be so sure Kop that. on 23 now and has another dozen games left, mo be breaking the 30 again i think.
11 Apr 2024 17:14:58
Paul Ince said what he said in order to drive interest and attention towards him the same way Danny Mills spouted nonsense about Klopp not being a top PL manager cos he only won one title. Clearly, it worked.
11 Apr 2024 17:22:10
That's not actually true though is it Salah. We have been fine without him over Afcon and the last few weeks. Whilst subjective our win percentage over the entire time Salah has been with the club is significantly higher when he hasn't been playing. Mental I know but that's fact. The team has performed markedly less effectively when Virgil has been out or injured in comparison hence why I keep saying he is our most important player and needs replacing as a priority far higher than Salah. Again there's lots of variables and I'm not saying I don't like him whatever, or even that I don't think he should be in the team. I'm just saying I genuinely think his time as an elite level player is coming to an end.
11 Apr 2024 18:19:51
Ah yes. Paul Ince.
Still not forgiven Roy Evans for wasting £4 million quid on him.
Ged soon got the measure of him and booted him out to Middlesbrough for a cut price £1 million, I think just to make a point that he was not a valued top player like Ince thought himself as.
Apparently, Ince was a bad influence on the squad getting the spice boys into trouble.
He still talks codswallop, guess he has to earn a living.
11 Apr 2024 19:18:16
Hey Jude, if Salah does get his 30 plus goals, I will come on here and say that you were right, I hope that he does too, but it will be a close one .