Liverpool banter 247223


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25 Apr 2024 10:24:00
So what are we playing at? We've suddenly turned into a shambles, Klopp, coaches, players, everybody has buggered up. We can't just pin the blame on Klopp it's not just him, way I see it is the players have just given up.

It was always going to be one of them games and fair play to Everton but come on we should be beating them, the fact we didn't says a great deal, we are in a right state and it won't be an easy fix I don't think. go back a couple of months and we're hammering that Everton team, now we are this sloppy? It makes no sense to me and is doing my head in. I just want the season to end now, roll on next season.

Agree13 Disagree0

25 Apr 2024 10:44:01
Partly tactics but mainly Nunez, if we had firmino last night we score two or three. Cannot even bear to watch the bloke anymore. The stick heskey used to get and he's not a patch on him.

25 Apr 2024 10:50:09
The recruitment has been bad for a number of years. Not sure who to blame for that.

Midfielders should have been brought in after 2021/ 22, Salah should have been sold last season – late in both instances – and then there's a handful of players, such as Keita, who were simply a waste of money, and others, such as Díaz, who have been decent but not good enough.

25 Apr 2024 10:59:10
It's a combination of everything you say, Salah. Not just Klopp, for sure, and definitely not just Pep Ljinders, which I'm getting sick of hearing about. Not one player escapes criticism, but some are deserving of it more than others. The suddenness of our decline is what I find most surprising. A month ago we were on for 4 trophies, and now it's all gone down the pan.

It's a shame that our greatest manager in the last 30 years is going out this way, but we can only look forward to next season and the start of, hopefully, a promising new era.

25 Apr 2024 11:00:15
I was asking myself the same, Salah. Aside from concluding that we have simply had a classic run-in meltdown and collapsed in the way that we've seen teams do so many times down the years (which I wouldn't have expected from this team), I found myself wondering if actually somehow our results and position up to March was actually misleading and not a true representation.

Sounds daft perhaps, and typically I am happy with the principle that the table doesn't lie, but look at the stats on first goal conceded and the number of times we have had to come from behind. Normally a team with such damning stats in that department wouldn't have sustained a title challenge.

And then less qualitatively and more subjective, but the level of performances. There aren't many times this season where I watched us and came away thinking we were on fire. Chelsea at Anfield was one (but we still managed to conceded two goals and we lost the next match at Arsenal) . I know it's ultimately a results business but I always feel that, even if you're grinding out the results, if your performance level is poor, it will catch up with you eventually. We can't honestly say that we've consistently been at the same level as City and Arsenal through the season can we?

25 Apr 2024 11:03:38
Yet we're still second in the table and above the best team in the world ?.
I don't think we are a shambles but the past few weeks have been difficult watching us. I don't think we've been great for a while but results and being at the top masked that, possibly. And don't forget, we won our two previous games prior to the Derby both away from home.
There's no denying that performances and results have gone downhill and a big worry is they have come at a time when energy levels are on the wain. Can we just roll out sleeves for the last few games?
Saying that, we could have enough points already to hobble into the top four.

25 Apr 2024 11:05:08
Recruitment has been so poor the last few years. Go back to when Klopp first took over. Wijnaldum, Matip, Mane in his first summer. (Milner Firmino Gomez just before Klopp came in) Robertson Salah van Dijk the following season. Fabinho Alisson the next. We’ve signed decent players the last few years but it’s been nowhere near as good as it used to be.

25 Apr 2024 11:22:17
Great post, RR.
I think the same way as you do.
When we signed Endo, Mac, Szob and Grav in the summer, I wasn't expecting them to be Rice, de Bruyne, Silva or Odegaard.
Don't get me wrong, results did lead me to start thinking 'what if' but we've had a reality check and in a cruel way. Not only do we feel embarrassed for getting carried away but it also leaves us wide open to stick from other fans ?.
It's now all about salvaging some pride in the last few games.

25 Apr 2024 11:23:50
I’ve been critical of Nunez recently but I’ve been critical of most of the players (it’s just Nunez criticism seems to trigger our best fans)

Point being we cannot hold him solely accountable for this last month just in the same way we can’t lay all the blame at our assistant managers door.

The saying is you win as a team and lose as a team and looking at the last month we’ve been poor as a team regardless of who is starting.

Sometimes you can get away with a few playing poorly and your superstars carrying you but all the players are seemingly as bad as each other and the management and coaching group seem just as clueless.

Can anyone talk me through those subs last night and the thinking. Were we trying to defend Everton’s 2-0 lead for them.

25 Apr 2024 11:45:45
Fair point jk and we are awful all around but Nunez was played through at least 5 times last night in a game where an experienced player knows there won't be loads of chances and Nunez fluffs every single touch up even the lay off for Salah was because of the miscontrol.

25 Apr 2024 11:30:22
Salah, for me it is a loss of focus mate. Klopp and all his staff should never have decided they were leaving mid-season. Have you ever seen anybody working their notice period who doesn't take their foot off the gas or their eye off the ball? I haven't quite simply because it is human nature to look ahead.

I personally believe there is uncertainty through the whole team. We've got several players who don't know if they have a future at the club, players with contracts running down who don't know if they'll be offered renewals etc. Even the captain (Virgil) came out mid season and admitted he doesn't know if he'll stay after Klopp leaves. Salah's agent has clearly been in talks with Saudi for a long time now. You've got Lijnders writing books and hawking himself around for other jobs in Europe, you've got documentary crews all over the training ground, Klopp talking about what he'll do with his wife after he retires, Trent talking about Arsenal and Man City in interviews insteado f ocusing on himself etc.

When your key players and coaching staff aren't 100% focused there is bound to be a knock on effect on the pitch. Lot's of small ripples culminate to become a huge waves, especially at this level of the game where the margins are so fine. We looked better when the kids were playing because they don't think about all this stuff, they're just enthralled to be on the pitch playing for Liverpool and you get that boost from that youthful innocence. It's infectious so you only even need 1 or 2 kids on the pitch at a time running through brick walls, for it to rub off on everyone else. Last night a prime example was Elliott and Quansah coming on. Within minutes you saw Elliott driving at them with the ball trying to make things happen and Quansah snapping them in half in the tackle. Both of them clearly should've started going on form of the last few months.

Klopp's tactical set ups, team selections and substitutions have been nothing short of dreadful lately. It hit a new low last night when he put on Tsimikas and Gomez at a point we needed 3 goals in 15 minutes. Neither player has ever scored for us across 13 years at the club combined and yet we had Danns, Clark and Gravenberch sat on the bench who have 7 goals between them this season alone. Make it make sense.

Klopp's lost his energy by his own admission, Virgil/ Salah seem to have lost their focus going on interviews and body language, and everyone else looks rudderless due to a lack of leadership. In hindsight, maybe stripping the dressing room (Milner, Hendo, Fabinho and Firmino) of several influential characters in a mass culling was a mistake? Milner maybe should have been offered a 1 year deal to help keep a very young squad focused but hindsight's a wonderful thing and even he might have been powerless to stop this even with all his experience and character.

If anybody can watch us lose to the worst Everton team maybe in their history simply because they wanted it more, and come to any other conclusion than we bottled it, then they're lying to themselves to put it bluntly. It's totally unacceptable. In the last 9 games we've won just 4 of them. They were against Sheffield, Fulham and Brighton teams with nothing really left to play for (without looking convincing in any of those games either by the way) and then an Atlanta side who didn't have any interest in winning because all they had to do was protect a 3 goal lead. We've lost to United in the cup having led twice, drawn to them in the league thanks to a late penalty, lost to Palace at Anfield without laying a glove on them, been spanked by Atalanta at Anfield and now been bullied at Goodison in the worst derby performance of my living 30 years. It's a capitulation of epic proportions and I'm sure the usual super fans on here will be outraged at me for calling it as I see it, but Klopp and the lads have let us and themselves down in the last 5-6 weeks. It's been a total lack of passion, application, perspiration and inspiration.

I don't know If I will bother trying to analyse the performances for the rest of this season now because it's clear Klopp and the players aren't bothered so I'm not wasting my energy on it. So consider my rant to be over! I'd rather look to the future and what we can hopefully become under Arne Slot (? ) with a new ethos and a fresh injection of life. Thank you for your time Jurgen Klopp; best manager of my lifetime by a mile and you're leaving the club in a position of strength and in a better place than you found it (which is incredibly rare nowadays) . Time is quite rightly up, but it has been one hell of a ride.

{Ed025's Note - great honest post that MK, kudos mate..

25 Apr 2024 11:34:24
Investment is paramount. No cheap Charlie.

25 Apr 2024 11:53:40
Some good points, JK.
This might be too deep for here but I can't help thinking about this quote:

'If you get your ego in your way, you will only look to other people and circumstances to blame'.
Maybe we're not that good and our egos are dented because we thought we were.

25 Apr 2024 11:58:03
I’ll bite and actually share my view on the situation for once.

Firstly, I find it crazy that the consensus amongst the majority in this side believed that the entire squad was world class not more than around a month ago. Now they are all dross. I am as frustrated as the next guy, but the logic is doing my head in.

To me it just screams of mental fatigue and a playing style that doesn’t fit the players. To shoehorn 10 players in to accommodate one player (Trent) is what has been the issue the entire season. Not the only issue of course but the constant among many variables. The only period where we have played somewhat free flowing during this season was when Trent and salah was out IMO.

The “high” after klopps announcement was bound to be fragile and, to me, it was clear that many of the players were over performing for some time and we rode our luck for an extended period of time. The luck ran out and the players started to be depended on the manager to boost them in terms of energy and mentality. But the manager is gone. You can see it on his face. In hindsight he should probably just have quit when he announced it, but oh well.

We’re all disappointed with the same two things. Not getting the end result that was looking very possible not that long ago and to have a great last farewell with the best manager we’ve had in 30 years. Now it’s just about getting this season over with tbh.
The new manager will be the one assessing the squad and I feel confident that the new changes will make it clear which players actually want to play for Liverpool and which players are actually as good as we’ve claimed them to be.

Lastly I want to point out that I too believe that players like Robbo and Salah should be moved on in the summer. The performance level they have showed in the run in has been way below expectations and the reason why I am singling them out is because they are supposed to be the leaders in this squad. They are supposed to Lead by example and kinda carry the team when times get tough. At least that is how I view it.

25 Apr 2024 11:58:35
5 times on goal? I only counted one, bro.

As for the team, we were simply NOT up for it and it showed from the off. Not sure anyone was physically or mentally prepared to play that game and it showed.

We can point to players all we want cos that's what people like to do BUT from top to bottom, nobody wanted anything to do with that game from our side and that's the pathetic side of things. Nobody is spared from this train-wreck. Literally nobody.

25 Apr 2024 12:20:26
The players are just knackered and they don’t have Klopp cracking his whip with quite the same determination and authority any more.

Salah, Nunez, Robbo are probably more knackered than the rest due to their high energy style and Robbo and Salah having been that way for all of Klopp’s time.

They need a break. They’re ready for it.

25 Apr 2024 12:45:58
This excuse about tiredness. I'm sure Arsenal have tired players as well, but they are managing fine.

As for being ahead of City, it's where you finish after 38 matches that counts, and we will not be ahead of City at that point.

{Ed025's Note - fair points Adam..

25 Apr 2024 12:46:15
You most have been watching a different game oli he had two passes from Trent and two from McAlister all played at oac into feet and he fluffed them. He was also slower to react than Godfrey for the Salah pass and then went missing second half, didn't see him win one aerial. duel.

25 Apr 2024 14:40:30
Adam, who is saying that tiredness is an excuse? It might be a reason for our poor form but it isn't an excuse. There might be reasons that we are more tired than Arsenal. Arsenal could just be a better team than us. I think a lot of us already suspect that.
As for City. Salah said we are now a shambles, and not based on where we finish the season. I've no doubt that City will finish above and are a better side than us but if we finish third or fourth would that be shambolic?
I can live with finishing behind City and Arsenal because I expected us to. But most other sides in the PL will have to live with finishing behind us. Again.

25 Apr 2024 16:05:02
It wouldn't really be shambolic, Rigsby, as it is an improvement on last season. However, that isn't saying much as last season was pretty dreadful. 'Disappointing' is the word I would use for this season. It could have been so much more. Slot has his work cut out.

25 Apr 2024 20:14:38
Amorin, the projection is stunning. So is it 2 or 5 times that Darwin was put thru on goal cos you have issues making up your mind? You seem to have issues with simple arithmetic or may be it is you who actually watched a different game, probably with your eyes wide shut.

26 Apr 2024 00:18:23
Some great posts here, it's been a long day, was going to reply earlier but didn't get the time to in the end.

More specifically, MK, excellent post mate as always, many thanks.



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