Liverpool banter 216886

 

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05 Oct 2017 09:21:28
Personally I think Klopp is the right man for Liverpool. He's not perfect but then nor is our relatively inexperienced (in footballing terms) senior management team.

Klopp gets us. He recognises the yearning for success. He acknowledges the hysteria that comes with our often misguided expectations. He instantly identified the "doubters" needed to be turned into "believers". He gets us and he does so with a smile, passion and intensity. Which other managers would deal with the constant hysteria? Klopp clearly has a vision on how he wants to win and had his targets in the summer - Keita, VVD, Brandt, Sessegnon - to take us closer to that vision. We couldn't argue with that list really could we? Yes we mucked it up as a club with the press leaks. Yes Klopp had a big role in mucking it up with the tapping up. But he's steadfastly stuck to his vision which is not something we've had in a very long time.

He has made mistakes. The tapping up aside, there is the loyalty shown to Mignolet and Lovren which results-wise has been suicidal. The dropping of Karius last season in reaction to the media pressure (although some of that might have been down to our fans too to be honest) . The weak CB signings in Matip and Klavan and the poor planning around Mane's AFCON absence. But at the same time he hasn't done what other previous managers have done - conduct a massive turnover of staff from summer to summer. We're building slowly. Did we improve last summer? Yes, we added pace in Mane, more variety in midfield with Gini, a promising GK to rival Mignolet and a centre-back that is better than Martin Skrtel. Could we have done better? Yes most definitely. Do we have a better squad than last season? Yes, we have additional pace and width in Salah/ Ox, more strength at full-back in TAA, Robertson and a reborn Moreno. Could we have done better? Yes most, definitely.

Had Phil gone and we got all of our targets this summer - we could be lining up with Karius/ Migs, TAA/ Gomez, Matip/ Gomez, VVD, Sessegnon, Keita/ Lallana, Emre/ Hendo, Lamar, Mane, Firmino, Salah/ Ox. That looks like the start of a formidable team to me.

Lastly don't forget Klopp has taken a very careful approach to dealing with high-profile players that he probably would have preferred to replace. For example, I am pretty sure Klopp didn't plan for Henderson being re-invented into a no6 but he was the club captain and that is not something you can change overnight. Add to that his injuries as well as Emre's injury woes is it any wonder the DM/ no6 position is constantly talked about here? I am also sure that he'd love to sign a no9 but with Sturridge, Ings, Balotelli and Origi on the books has meant that would be difficult too without a big turnover.


#KloppIn.

Agree15 Disagree2

05 Oct 2017 10:22:28
Very good post mate, I am in full agreement with you.

05 Oct 2017 11:13:19
Fair post FPF.
I have often heard him say "we have 4 strikers/ CBs, so how many can we use? "
He's under pressure to balance the books at times, Balotelli being a prime example.

It's like any business, you go to your boss for money to replace something that's not gone yet and you're told wait until it's kaput!

We can't just stockpile players like certain other clubs.
It has happened with us before on a smaller scale and we couldn't move the unwanted players later, which holds up future incoming transfers.

I think people fail to remember that at times.
But to counter that, I think our squad is quite thin on quality personally.

1 - We have a big goalkeeper problem.
2 - We have a big Center Back problem.
3 - We have a Full Back problem.
4 - We have a big Defensive minded Midfield problem.
5 - We have a Central Striker problem.

So I hope to see these issues addressed in the next two windows with both ins and outs.

{Ed002's Note - It looks like a big Manager problem you have found there given that Klopp has added to fix all of these problems.}

05 Oct 2017 11:31:39
Nah, he's fixed quite a few issues for me.
One step at a time, can't keep transitioning every summer over and over again - there's no panic.
He has plenty of time hopefully.

Not bothered about promises made to owners either.
Promises never get fulfilled and I think they're intelligent enough business men to know that it's not likely to happen in the near future unless they're delusional.

I'm only saying what I see and what many others see.
Perhaps he can "fix" the individual players like he seems to have done with Moreno, so not as many purchases/ sales are needed - only time will tell and he should be given it as he did take us up the table last season with a bang average squad.

Nobody will change my mind on the fact that he's a good manager and he deserves a season or two to fix these things!

05 Oct 2017 12:39:07
He hasn't fixed a lot at all tbh, the keeper situation is a joke, rotating the worst 2 keepers and keeping Ward in the stands is poor, buying a stop gap cb and not getting better cbs in, is poor, not getting a cdm in, poor, getting rid of a better cb than what we have now, poor, not teaching tactics to protect a very vulnerable defence, poor, not having a 20 goal a season cf, poor, we were level with the top clubs last season, they have sorted there issues out we have gone backwards, massively poor.

05 Oct 2017 13:29:32
Of course he has LR.
So you'd prefer Skrtel?
Brad Jones?
How do you know what he "teaches" in training?
A very uneducated guess is my opinion.
You need to get real buddy!

05 Oct 2017 16:45:25
Skrtel? was thinking more Sakho
Jones? was thinking more Ward, your about 3 season behind Olrish, Im guessing not a lot of tactical work is being done in training as positionally the cbs and centre mids are all over the place, Henderson especially never holds his central position, he leaves big gaps between Defence and midfield, he isn't disciplined at all, the cbs obviously aren't pulling him back into position and the keeper obviously isn't doing the same with the centre backs, I could martial that back line better than Migs or Karius, real enough for you.

05 Oct 2017 20:23:44
Great post, OP and OIrish. Lancaster, how do you know what happens and what does not happen in training? Do you have info to share on that front? That is just your opinion which Ed01 has debunked cos he has said repeatedly that the players work on the issues we have every day BUT when the games come, their heads just go and start screwing up. That is information and not opinion that the Ed gave us.

Also, how do you know Ward is better than Karius (we know Migs is crap)? You are aware that Ward is very inexperienced in the PL and like Karius who is learning the game in the PL, Ward will also make mistakes like any young GK will. What happens then? Should he be binned too and hounded off like Karius was as well? Cos you think Ward is better does not mean he is until he proves it and the same goes for Karius. Also, we scored 92 goals last season w/ o a striker so him not getting one is spot on as the system works to create chances and our boys have to improve their finishing. That is it.

You say that we have gone backwards under Klopp. In comparison to when? When Klopp arrived with the mess BR left us in? Last season when we made top four and Klopp got us CL footie by dismantling a Hoff team that Bayern till this day they can't beat? Or did he takes us back cos he lost 2 out of 13 games in all comps. this season? If the defence is your beef then you already lost the the argument as Sakho is a right bell, an average CB now and deserves the misery he will receive at CP with Woy for never apologizing for his atrocities and I'm glad Klopp got shot of him.

I understand what Klopp did and not go for players who won't fix the issues. You accused him of getting a stop gap in Matip at CB. Now you accuse Come on, man. him for NOT getting a stop gap at CB as VVD is who he wanted? So in your eyes, he can't win. See how hypocritical that is? Come on, man.

06 Oct 2017 08:10:50
What are you on about Bingo, they train for all situations, they train for tactical reason to know positions, they don't just kick a ball around and do some doggys, how have we not gone backwards when City and United especially saw there weaknesses and spent money on improving the position, Ward has looked more than confident compared to the others, had a very good season at Huddersfield and deserves more than a couple of cup games, Sakho would at least enjoy a tackle or challenge, Matip is a rake who could be blown over, FSG have the money or ambition required to get in what we need, the scouting team obviously aren't doing there jobs in finding more than VVD out there, Sakho isn't as good a defender as the others, come off, get your head out the clouds, I have faith in Klopp but he isn't addressing obvious problems, the team can't defend as a unit, Moreno has come from nowhere, Migs hasn't been top level since he came, what's going on with Robertson? Is a big threat in games, then doesn't play, Klopp is rotating too much and its affecting players.

06 Oct 2017 08:56:06
Lancaster,
Ward hasn't hardly played for us and you were talking about Klopp's supposed lack of improvement in personnel over the last 2 years mate which was why I brought up Jones and Skrtel who both only left about 18 months ago.
Jones was number 2 mate, now it's Karius currently - yes Karius is an upgrade.
Did you watch Skrtel last night?
Good og that wasn't it mate?!
Get real pal!

06 Oct 2017 09:01:46
Sakho as you well know had a problem attitude wise - do you want insubordination within the group to spread?

Did you see his commitment to our club when he celebrated Palace beating us while on loan with them last season?
You think that is acceptable?

Who would you bring in then?
Please shoot away?
Players who are actually purchasable, not Varane or Gimenez or other FIFA 18 players please?

And before you say Van Dijk, Southampton NEVER said they'd sell him to us, we never even had a bid accepted and that was never a forgone conclusion, so please feel free to fire away fella - I wait with genuine interest on this one.

06 Oct 2017 09:16:49
Why are you not marshaling that defense then?
Too old?
Why have you not got your coaching badges instead, most top coaches never played at the top?
You sound like an absolute tactical expert mate.
You should cruise through your trials or coaching exams with all the knowledge you possess.

You have all the answers but none of the reasoning behind them and quite honestly it's pitiful that you're whining so much about things like Ward being in the stands - I guarantee you have seen him play less than the coaches at LFC, so they'd have better assessments of the lad than us.

Don't get me wrong, I'd like him to be given a chance soon too, but only if he's good enough - same with Harry Wilson who I have wanted to be given a chance for about two years but I'm not whining about it.

06 Oct 2017 12:01:47
What are you mentioning Skrtel for? I haven't mentioned him once, you brought him up, don't have Fifa 18 yet cheers but ill check out your suggestions, Cahill at Chelsea would improve us, he is a leader, him alongside VVD would be a very interesting partnership, I have seen plenty of Ward to know he deserves a chance, Karius is no2 but that wasn't the plan for him though was it? Id go for Butland over anyone, Robertson isn't playing why?

The problems at the back come from no communication, or should the players not be expected to talk in a game as they do play 3 games a week bless them and get paid poorly so why should they be expected to talk on a pitch, the gk let's his defenders know what's going on around them, the cbs should be talking to the full backs and midfield constantly letting them know what's happening and pulling them into positions, its not difficult if you have a half decent grasp of tactics and aren't just a brown nose.

my main point was United and City have seen there weaknesses and done something, we haven't, we aren't in a transition period at all, it takes nearly 2 years to fix a team and see the weaknesses, I don't think so, im happy with Klopp just think more problems should have been addressed than have been, you tell me what should be done then if you can come off your high horse for minute, I enjoy others opinions when they aren't being a plum about it.

06 Oct 2017 12:10:46
Bingo, you only get experience through playing, he has done more than enough to get a chance and have a run of games, that could be said of Gomez and TTA aswell, should they not get a chance because Klavan or Clyne are older and have played more? Migs clearly isn't a top 6 keeper and Karius is really struggling so try something different, regards training, so they don't have the mentalilty to be footballers if they can't retain something that is drilled into them day in day out, they clearly aren't upto the top league football (i. e a title challenge), we should be targeting leaders or players who aren't afraid to get stuck in, Robertson likes a good tackle yet isn't getting game time over a guy who we wanted out for more than a year, how is that progression? He wants to replace Matip and Lovren with just VVD then? Gomez is clearly not a full back, he likes a tackle so get him in the centre and let him learn and make mistakes, is there not moret han VVD out there, the scouts aren't doing there jobs then no? We have gone backwards compared to the others, they addressed there problems and are stronger, are we?

06 Oct 2017 16:30:45
Because you said Klopp hasn't improved the squad since he came in in October 2015.

You're definitely a FIFA-head then, are you going to "rage - quit" next if you get verbally battered?

When has Cahill ever been linked to LFC since Klopp took over, realistically I'm talking?
He's Chelsea's club captain no?
Chelsea, who are the champions no?

Did you not read what I said about Van Dijk?
We never even had a bid accepted for him, in fact we never even placed a bid - what don't you get about those facts?

He may never even come to us now if Southampton feel aggrieved about our behaviour still, which they are more than entitled to do.
So maybe you're talking about Chelsea's defensive line up from January?

You've watched Ward in how many matches approximately?
I have seen him play since the youths with us and have never seen anything spectacular, not a damn thing! I must be honest - he's okay, but unspectacular usually, certainly not as good as you seem to think from your "watched plenty of" assessment.
But that's fine, maybe he's better than Mignolet and Karius, that's up to the coaches really, not us!

Is he even Wales' no. 1?
Nope, Wayne Hennessey is?
Drink that in, Wayne Hennessey, Crystal Palace's sometime no.1.
Why don't we just sign him?

Butland isn't a bad shout from what I have seen of him (10 matches maybe), I will give you that, but to buy him, we have to off-load somebody first - the current three we have might not be in demand so we cannot sell right now, meaning we also can't justify buying a 4th squad keeper, sorry 5th squad keeper because we also have the Hungarian lad! We're not Man City who can just spend about £60m in 12 months on 2 goalkeepers are we?

Every signing we make must be low risk because we haven't the same clout financially as them, Robertson is a prime example - he was low risk, if you're so privy to what's happening within the club, surely you'd know why he's not playing every single match. You suggested earlier you knew what was happening in training did you not?

How is the players not communicating with each other anything to do with your 'we haven't improved' comments?
Klopp is now responsible for people's characters/ confidence or lack there of?
Lovren for example, 6 foot 3 and used to command the back 4 of Southampton with Fonte, that hasn't happened more or less since he joined?
Maybe it's because the fans like you berate him every single time he makes a mistake?

I have made my opinion very clear on these pages for about the last month now, not repeating myself for someone with no respect like you.
I won't stoop to your ways with name-calling though because you're losing an argument.

You still have absolutely no idea what you're talking about within the club or who we can get in personnel-wise. You're just throwing out random names like Cahill and VVD.

You must watch a lot of matches between your in depth assessments on Cahill, VVD, Butland, Ward et al.
All that time you could be marshaling our defence as seen as you think it's so easy, or studying for your coaching badges yourself.

Football Manager is out soon I believe, you can live out your transfer fantasies on there mate.
The rest of us will live in the real world.
It doesn't do the name calling thing though from memory, so back you go to FIFA maybe?!

09 Oct 2017 08:32:15
Do you even read your posts or mine? Where do I say we haven't improved? My point was we have fallen behind our rivals from being level with them last season, we know where we are weak and it hasn't improved, you said name someone who could be realistic, Cahill could be a realistic target, just because he is Chelsea captain makes him untouchable? Hennessey plays for Wales because he plays regular, I seen enough of Ward to know he deserves a few games, Migs and Karius deserve to keep him out? They make the defence uneasy which is clear. You listed 5/ 6 problems so you are in the same bracket as me not being happy with what's being done? Lovren has improved since joining? He gets berated because he is average and actually isn't a top level defender who gets pulled all over the pitch and is quite rash, he like Migs has had enough time, If you think communication on the pitch isn't important then you clearly haven't played football yourself, we need leaders, talkers, organisers. I wasn't looking or an argument, I gave an honest opinion that didn't match yours so you didn't like it and started your name calling, 'Fifa 18' and football manager have nothing to do with my comments, you argued using childish comments so got it back, I think our midfield is the weakest in the 'top 6' too, that's my opinion, you want to try and change my mind you won't but ill listen to why you think they are, I have no idea how the club is being run but its clear we don't have the money to compete so we need investment, how is VVD a random name? Its has been explained many times by the Eds what went on with him and every signing we make needs to be low risk? That is great ambition shown there, I know players watch dvds of opponents, work on set piece scenarios and ball movement etc, its a big business its not a Sunday league show up a couple nights a week do some stretching, smash the ball at a keeper then play a game of 5 a side, its a lot more than that and yes I watch enough and have played football to know a little more than what fifa and Football manager offers.

{Ed001's Note - Cahill is not just unrealistic but not what we need, he is far too slow for the way we play and would be just an upgraded Klavan. Yes he puts his body on the line, but that is all he has, even the Chelsea fans do not rate him.}

09 Oct 2017 09:09:11
Cheers Ed, was just thinking of his leadership and body on the line that we don't get from Matip, Lovren can do that but isn't for me a defender who is going to ever push us on imo, what's your opinion on if we would go for Butland? We don't need a 4/ 5th keeper in the squad we need a No.1.

{Ed001's Note - I do agree we need a leader, but Cahill is not the answer. That is the problem, there are so few top class defenders around that we would end up swapping Lovren and Matip for someone who would just give us different problems, rather than fixing things.

I like Butland a lot as a keeper, but his injuries worry me. However I think we could well have the answer in the squad in Ward, personally. I do not understand what Klopp is playing at messing around with the keepers like this. It is the most important single position on the pitch, it needs to be one player playing every game possible. Mignolet is not the answer, so sit him on the bench and find out whether Ward or Karius is!}

09 Oct 2017 10:27:26
Ward has a calmer influence if you get what I mean, he seems to have a calming composure that doesn't feed through the back line like Panick, which Migs an Karius has spread through, I played as a keeper and being rotated never happened and it certainly would have affected my performance and confidence, the defence need to know what's happening around them and a vocal keeper can make a big difference, we seem to lose track of runners a fair bit and a simple shout of 'follow him' or 'pass him on' let's players around the pitch know what's happening, how many times have we lost the ball in midfield and its been the crowd who have all shouted 'man on' and the players have been caught out?







 

 

 
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