Liverpool Banter Archive November 19 2014

19 Nov 2014 22:14:27
Hi All
Many thanks to all the replies to my earlier question, all answers appreciated and have helped me in my understanding of how we have taken massive strides backwards instead of moving forward. cheers

19 Nov 2014 21:18:53
If FSG are looking for a steer from social media and stumble across this site I think poor Brendan may be jobless for Christmas. I live in Ireland and haven't been to Anfield in some years (2 young kids have curtailed my trips). What is the mood like at games these days, have the fans begun to turn against the team or Rodgers? It can be difficult to gauge this from tv, although there were groans clearly heard at the Chelsea game when Rodgers made his inspired substitutions. I would be especially interested to hear what the atmosphere is like at away games? I'm not suggesting fans should turn against the team, I'm just interested in the current mood. Thanks.

19 Nov 2014 20:17:06
Painfully slow build-up play, woeful defence, poor tactics, predictable play, nothing up front, lacklustre midfield, poor transfer business, laughable interviews, no plan B, super ego, inflated self-importance, losing the dressing-room big-style, no control over bigger players, no faith in the youth who everyone else sees potential in, no idea who the best eleven is, too much faith in players everyone else sees as surplus and too little faith in players who have performed well on their limited opportunities.
Am I being too harsh?
I read this site all the time but I've held back on posting because my anti-BR comments have not been well received.
However, lately I've only read veiled and direct calls for his head and I now feel comfortable in resuming my posts.
Brendan Rodgers is a blackboard-coach with a small-time mentality. always has been.
He has a certain level and his ego masks his limited capabilities as a manager.
His un-disguised pretensions to manage a big club in Spain should be like a red rag to us and the carp he spouts to disguise his failings should tell us he thinks he's better than he is.
Brendan Rodgers IS NOT BIG ENOUGH to manage Liverpool!
Lose to Crystal Palace on Sunday and, hopefully, he'll be history.
If I sound anti-BR then good.I've got my message across!
I work hard to watch my beloved Liverpool and I think I've paid for the right to vent my spleen. If that doesn't sit right with some "fans" then I'll learn to live with it.
In my opinion, anyone who thinks Brendan "the new messiah" Rodgers is the modern Shankly is seriously deluded.
The evidence of his failings is there if you care to glance at the League Table, listen to his interviews, analyse his transfers, watch the body-language of the players, examine his tactics/team-selections and substitutions etc.
Every Liverpool supporter/pundit and almost everyone on this site knows a few important FACTS that escape Brendan Rodgers or that he's too stubborn/proud to acknowledge;
-We need two up front
-We need a decent goalscorer
-We need a Defensive Midfielder
-We need a decent keeper
-We need a defensive coach
-We need a Director of Football
-We need to utilise our youth/reserves better
-We need to stop spunking cash on "hopefuls"
What we really need is a definite starting eleven with a strong bench and a plan B and C and a proper clearout.
I don't really want Rafa back but I do think we have to give up on Rodgers. he could end up at Barcelona or Real Madrid but I seriously doubt that his FA coaching badge and ego will wing it beyond Championship level.

I couldn't agree more didn't want him in the first place I had to sit listening to other fans go on half of last season but I did point out we couldn't defend and now I think everybody agrees he will never sort out the defence where is the midfield box to box man or the big lump to protect the footballers in the stoke like games he just isn't changing things and it's not working the only reason is he doesn't know how to in his 3 seasons 2 of them have been worse starts than Roy's this team is a lot better than we are producing I mean we are struggling in a group of euro giants of ludogravits and Basel rodgers won't last at Lfc

Fair points well made pal

Best post I have ever seen on this site Pete, couldn't agree more.
Managers over inflated ego's are their biggest downfall, you have to back it all up with success(Mourinho),
BR has a clear football vision and has not for one minute thought about what happens when it doesn't work. NO plan B was clear last season, when things are not going to plan he is absolutely powerless to change things?
If he was to be honest and turn around and except a director of football and a defensive coach he "MAY" go on to have a career as a manager at the top level,
But you have to learn and change all the time.

Worst thing is BR isn`t learning and isn`t ready to change. Talk about a doubly whammy.

A lot of really good points Pete.
I would only say that Rodgers is not Sir Alex Ferguson with decades of experience.
He is a baby in terms of management as well.
I think people forget that.
That is not to excuse things away due to his inexperience.
When looking at young players I tend to give them more time before criticizing them.
Maybe, with Rodgers being a baby in management terms, he should be judged in that context.
Hard to learn your job at a club like Liverpool though because of the expectation.

{Ed001's Note - I would agree with that, except to say that Liverpool is not the place to learn.}

True ed.

19 Nov 2014 19:03:25
So it seems that events are conspiring to give BR his marching orders.
Whilst it would normally have saddened me to see another manager going through the revolving doors at my beloved club I can't help but feel completely indifferent towards his seemingly imminent departure.
I think many who previously showed unwavering support for him are also experiencing the same feeling.
Adios brenda

These are conditions that he created for himself by being stubborn and arrogant w/o having the proven credibility to dictate to anyone about his methods and tactics. He`s brought all this on himself.

19 Nov 2014 17:36:12
I hope this injury to studge is because his original injury had not been cured. if it is a new but same problem then it does not look good for the future or his career it could be we have to get a striker in jan otherwise we could be in real trouble

Either way it is pretty bad.

19 Nov 2014 16:45:18
Ed1 if you are about mate. How is Jerome Sinclair developing and is he close to getting any where near the first team squad?

{Ed001's Note - last I heard, they were pleased with his development, but he was not in with a shout of the first team. They were looking for a loan move for him.}

Ed1 do we have a young forward knocking on the door of the first team squad?

{Ed001's Note - not really anyone banging the door down at the moment, though I don't see what harm it would do to give one or two a few sub appearances to get experience.}

19 Nov 2014 16:19:30
The word is sturridge will not play for Liverpool again in 2014.
We just need to hang on until the new year hopefully drag out some good results and hopefully we get a new striker in January because we are on course for a bottom half finish if not.

And you think FSG are going to make more money available after the amount they made available to Rodgers in the summer?

As the ed's have explained on numerous occasions, any purchases will be funded by of partly funded by sales.

There won't be any signings in January, we're stuck with what we have. BR gambled and lost when he sold Suarez and failed to replace him.

The problems are all of his own making, from the fact that we have no decent goalkeepers at the club, to his insistence on playing players who are clearly no longer good enough all the way through to not being able to make an organised defence.

The sad reality is that this season is over, can't see us making the champions league again next year and frankly I would not consider the FA cup or league cup sufficient to make up for the failings.

Dalglish was rightly sacked for this kind of failure and I hope that BR would be sacked if the same happens.

He`ll b gone for sure, IMO.

19 Nov 2014 12:26:37
I understand everyone's frustrations at the minute and I think we are all just scared of falling back into the abyss only months after we found our way out of it.

From where I'm standing it's clear to see that Rodgers is out of his depth. He is in unknown territory and doesn't know how to deal with it. His lack of experience has certainly come to haunt him after what was a very poor thought out transfer window. Especially after losing such an influential player in Suarez. When you are in the Champions League you have to have quality players, instead we bought kids and inexperienced players.

The other thing that has bothered me is his poor team selections. we have players that are being overplayed (Gerrard, Sterling, Skrtel etc) and players that aren't playing enough ( Toure, Lucas, Lambert etc). He needs to manage the squad better.

Despite his flaws, I don't want him sacked I just want him to get his head out of his arse and sort it out.

Red Rum

Thoughtful post and I share your sentiments. I just can`t see that happening because IMO, he has dug in too deep and is now at a crossroads. I just hope I`m wrong because regardless of who`s the manager, I just want my team to win above all else. here`s to hoping.

I wish I could stay calm enough to articulate my feelings like this but as soon as I type anything about what Rodgers is doing the red mist descends.

What he is doing to our beloved club could become irreversible if we leave him be. the next 3 seasons for me will separate a new 'big 4' from the pack. The money in the game is going to sky rocket again and whoever is on that CL gravy train will start to pull away from the pack. Chelsea and City are shoe ins. We need to somehow claw our way above Arsenal because if you ask me, United are too big not to be up there. They'll just keep spending until they get there. It is us or Arsenal and right now, I don't fancy us.

Years and years of poor management right the way through the board has stagnated us and held us back. We must be the most poorly ran club in the last century and the only thing that's kept us afloat is the fan base putting up with the dire football for 5 years. Last season was blip thanks to two fortunate things; Sturridge avoided injuries and Suarez didn't bite anybody until the season had finished. We had two world class strikers who would walk into any team on the planet and they carried us. I didn't want to beleive it before, but now it is painfully obvious. We played a good system that was recommended by Biesla as well.

Rodgers has now lost his SAS and ditched the style we had success with whilst trying to rehaul the squad at the same time. It has badly exposed him and made it far too obvious that he is a con artist who blagged his way into a job way too big for him with a 1000 page technical report on tiki-taka.

I really hope he turns things around this weekend. Of course I want him to be successful. If he does I'll hold my hands up and apologise for doubting him. However i just don't see it happening. I think his head has swollen to such an enormous size that his arse will not open wide enough for him to pull it out!

This issue for me is Rodgers reluctance to have anyone but his own 'yes' men within the club. The man clearly doesn't want to work with a DOF or any other coaches than his own, in my eyes its a shame but he's dug his own grave and we may have to accept it will never work.

Pretty much my vies there Red-Rum.

But a small tangent; I cannot see him pulling anything out of anywhere. Based on what we have continued to expect from BR, I expect him to continue as his intransigent self.

I would have defended him but his pathetically poor excuses has got to me.

I wouldn't be surprised to see him try to wriggle his way out of the mess he has created by blaming other things, like Sturridge's injury.

To me this is unacceptable as he has had enough time and has spend enough money to not rely on just 1 guy. This along with other poor excuses like "we just didn't think Suarez was going to leave this summer", the perpetual contradictory interviews and the tacit blame he has put towards the Committee by saying that they have do better to get in World class players, and I have a strong desire to give the mother a goo bitch-slapping.

I'm sorry guys but this "hope he comes good" attitude is destroying our club.
The guy has been shocking defensively, during every transfer windows and attacking wise.
Enough is enough, let's get someone in to salvage the season. Especially with so many others struggling.
If we leave this guy in charge these are the options;
Brendan realises his mistakes and brings in.new coaches and a DO - not a Goddamn chance as they would say he was wrong
BR sells some great players to get himself money to waste again in January- Sakho, Suso Lucas go out the door to bring in another Balotelli or Boring or Lambert or as pas

Or we change manager like Chelsea or City have done when it's not working and we give him these great players we have, he brings in great coaches to get the best out of the internationals we have throughout the side and maybe he knows a hidden gem at a great price somewhere

19 Nov 2014 16:58:16
Ring back rafa

Rafa should stay where he is.

19 Nov 2014 12:09:15
Maybe rafa should come in as this defensive coach everybody has been talking about. Lol
I'm not sure rafa is the way forward but it would be interesting to see how he would get our current team playing.
Defence would be sorted at least.

You are right about Rafa sorting out the defence but we also scored plenty of goals while he was at Lfc. I remember scoring over 100 goals in a season. Its just a different way of playing.

Rafa still holds the record for the biggest CL win; 8-0 vs Besiktas.

There is no doubt we scored goals under him. The problem was we relied to much on getting the first goal than hitting teams on the break as they pushed to equalise. If they sat back and made no mistakes, it'd just be a 0-0 draw or a moment of magic from Gerrard/Torres.

Having said that though, the man is a winner. He has won a trophy at every club he's been at as far back as I can remember. Impressive considering he was only at Chelsea and Inter Milan for 6 months apiece! Inter Milan were fools to get rid of him and blame their blatant internal problems on him. Having said that, so were we. There is no way he deserved to be sacked. However i do think we can do better know.

19 Nov 2014 11:44:23
I know there was some mention of Espanyol GK, Kiko Casilla recently.

He played last night for Spain against Germany (his debut I think). He got beaten in 89' by a tame shot from Kroos and just kind of fumbled it into his own goal.

So we aren't just bashing Liverpool players and Liverpool targets, we are now bashing potential Liverpool targets that haven't even been approached by the club?

Wow! Just for the record I think that my mate Dave is awful, he has two left feet, a beer belly and the skills of a drunken hippo! He is clearly not Liverpool quality!

Good thing we sorted that out!

And Benzema missed a penalty against Sweden. Clearly not top shelf LFC material. Kiko is class. Wish the same could be said about the poster.

19 Nov 2014 21:42:38
I didn't slag him off did I? Where in my post do I do that?

I just gave a short report of the defining moment of his performance. No criticism, no abuse. Comparing it to "your mate Bob" or whatever you said is stupid because he's not of interest on this site and completely irrelevant.

Why be so bitchy?

19 Nov 2014 11:21:55
If in January someone offered £30m for sturridge I'd take it. I'm sick his injurys. He's a fantastic player but his main attribute is speed and he'll be losing that with every injury get rid while he's worth something or put up with a fantastic player on the treatment table every week and give us all an excuse for bad results

19 Nov 2014 11:48:16
Well, we sold our best player in the summer, so now we should sell our second best player in January? Makes sense.

What a petulant comment. It's probably more to do with him being rushed back too early!

He's not worth a penny sat on the treatment table he's only our second best player when he's fit which is never. Borini lambert and yesil are better options than him atm

Would you trust BR t spend the £30 million wisely?

He'd just spend it on more Southampton players.

19 Nov 2014 09:45:45
ED001, who would be your choice of DoF?

{Ed001's Note - Cruyff.}

Would he be a possibility though?

{Ed001's Note - probably not.}

Cruyff would be my choice as well.

Ed, do you think Dalglish would do a good job? I'm not suggesting him as my understanding of the DoF role is very limited. Just wondering if Kenny could do it, and do it well.

{Ed001's Note - no idea mate, but I would not think it was suited to him from his last spell as manager. That would suggest he is a bit out of touch.}

I thought as much Ed. Just wanted a more informed opinion. Cheers for the reply.

Who would you say are realistic options for the role if not Cruyff?

{Ed001's Note - not sure mate, I wouldn't be surprised if it was someone from a past US set up though.}

19 Nov 2014 12:13:47
Ed01 mate, how would you feel about Rafa as head coach with a DoF?

{Ed001's Note - depends on if he has us playing like he had Valencia playing or how he had us playing in his first spell.}

19 Nov 2014 08:26:09
With the rumours or sturridge injured and our poor form I do believe this could be the end for BR. I don't like to see people sacked but spending that amount of money in the summer and being in this position after 11 games in awful.

Everyone knows studge is made of glass and that mario balotelli is not a striker who can play on how own and fabs and lambert aren't good enough.

This was not addressed!

It's sad but 8 points when sturridge has been injured is bottom half form. Would de boer be the right man for the job? I think so yeah, he was always my first choice before Brendan.

But we have to remain positive get behind who ever plays on Sunday and BR!

yNwA

Rodgers needs to use his whole squad properly. Twice now we've rushed Sturridge back and prolonged his injury. Rodgers is being a selfish git because he is worried about his job.

Rafa (and I want De Boer before anybody gets the wrong idea) beat the likes of Arsenal and Man Utd with David N'Gog up front. Good strikers can make a difference. They are not pivotal to defending, controlling the midfield and scoring goals though. Rodgers is just a useless manager who relied on two world class strikers to look good. Now he has lost them both he is being exposed as the nothing he is.

Very strong and somewhat harsh assessment of Rodgers EMS. I do have the feeling too though that this setback for Sturridge could lead to Rodgers demise. There have been plenty of interviews where Rodgers and some players have almost positioned Sturridge as the saviour of our season. This will be a massive blow to morale. Unfortunately I can't see how Rodgers will turn it around, although I do hope I am wrong

Really Jeraldo? I thought it was quote lenient!

He has spent a ridiculous amount of money and only taken us backwards. I've given up on him now. I'd personally sack him today because he is doing nothing but damage and I don't see him ever repairing it.

The 'showing him up as the nothing he is' quote I thought was a bit harsh EMS. But I certainly understand and share your frustrations. I don't know what to think with Rodgers, all the things I thought were good qualities of his list season such as man management and tactical nous have just vanished. Our maybe they never existed, maybe you're right perhaps it was all just Suarez and Sturridge. I am a glass half full type Liverpool fan and I want him to succeed, but at the moment I think he may just be on borrowed time

Perhaps the nothing part was a bit harsh. Amateur would've been a better word. I'm just angry because he conned not only the owners, but all the fans into believing he knew what he was doing.

Yeah I see where you are coming from EMS. Personally I'm not angry. The performances from Jan 2013 to end of last season made it an enjoyable time to watch Liverpool again. I'm more disappointed now that it seems we are back to square one again. I can't take another period of transition (personally I think that word should be banned from football!). Although I think you can only refer to Tran button if they're always to be a move towards improvement and that is certainly not the case at the moment

Great conversation, lads!

19 Nov 2014 05:26:29
Ed's 001 you said in one of your replies yesterday that 'De Boer seems the favorite' can you elaborate on this please? Are FSG thinking of firing Brendan and there is already a list of managers that they have compiled to replace Rogers, or did you mean favorite in the eyes of the fans? I myself would have Rafa back if he played the football Valencia played against us at Anfield back in 2003 before Rafa got appointed Liverpool manager. They schooled us that day with some sublime pass and move football. If we get the defensive Rafa then no thanks. I think a duo of De Boer (coach) and Cruyff (DOF) would be a winning combo. This way if De Boer needed advice who better to turn to then the mercurial magician himself. Do you think Rogers will go if we lose against Palace Ed's 001? Thanks in advance mate. keep smiling.

{Ed001's Note - I don't know what the fans would want, probably split between Rafa back and someone new, but within the club it is De Boer. FSG are currently considering their position and are taking steps to find someone within the game to consult with them as to the best way forward. I have to say that I am not sure that they are looking to consult with the right people, as they are looking outside the English game for expert opinion. Personally I would prefer, as they are already on the outside of English football themselves, to find someone within the English game to advise them. Like every country, England has its own particular requirements, and it is best to have some local knowledge when making decisions.

I don't know what any consultant would have to say, but I doubt Rodgers' position is based on the result of that one game. I expect it to be a longer period of time, while FSG bring someone in to look over the whole club and make his recommendations.

Not sure that they need a consultant to tell them the transfer committee is a failure and that Rodgers needs to act now or accept he is the wrong man for the job as well. It is obvious that they should have stuck to their original plan, a DoF above a head coach. Clubs are too big and complex to be run by one manager these days. Even the most recent successful 'manager', Ferguson, was a DoF in all but name.}

19 Nov 2014 13:57:13
Thankyou for the reply. Much appreciated. I just fear that the time FSG take to get this consulting done we will lose ground on the race for top 4. It's plain to see we aren't going to get better any time soon, get a new man in and let him have 5 months to make something happen. Our financial security depends on it. What are they getting advice on? They know the transfer committee doesent work, they know that one man overseeing everything doesn't work and they know Brendan definitely isn't working. All they need to do is open their eyes and ears instead of spending time and money on expensive time consuming consultations!

Hi Ed1,

So with this not being over one or a few games with Rodgers and them looking to a consultant of some form or another.

Is there a strong likelihood that we may not see any move to remove Rodgers for quiet a few months yet? Possibly even the end of the season?

I hope to god if something needs doing they do it correctly this time.

{Ed001's Note - it looks likely that it would be at least a month. Probably more.}

FSG have done what everybody else wanted them to do since they got here and have been burnt TWICE. IMO, there will NOT be a third time. They will finally do what they think is best for the club because you know why? They are the ones write the checks and pouring money into the club to plug debts and anf fund transfers and stadium expansion. Good on them.

19 Nov 2014 00:43:09
Hello to all the EDS and fellow REDS

What disappointment! Sturridge out again and this time we can't blame England. But. now with perhaps Balotelli out too, Brendan will have to use Lambert and maybe Borini. or he may even play Lambert on his own, poor Lambert if that happens. This is turning into a bizarre season. Fans revolting against players as well as manager. Rafa coming back to live on Merseyside just fans the rumours, doesn't it.

Ah. was just hoping to see an attacker back in the side. Pity.

This just shows how clueless the transfer committee and Brendan are relying on an injury prone striker who misses 45-50% of the season on the treatment table. The club never replaced Suarez and are paying the price. City have Dzeko and Jovetic if Aguero gets injured. Chelsea have Schurrle and Remy if something happens to Costa. LFC on the other hand have Lambert and Borini, just shows the gulf in quality between the title challengers and LFC.

Seems like it`s going to get worse before it gets better

18 Nov 2014 21:41:20
All this talk of Rafa coming back got me thinking;

He sold Alonso in the hope of replacing him with. Barry!
Had quite a poor transfer policy bar a few signings (familiar? )
Wanted to control everything (familiar?)

Stick or twist it not Rafa we need!

The Rafa-in brigade are back in full force. They`ll end up being disappointed because IMO, FSG wouldn`t touch him w/ a ten foot pole and neither should anyone w/ any sense.

19 Nov 2014 12:21:20
Yeah don't mention the Champions League we won, or the FA Cup, don't mention that he had owners who were a pair of skint cowboys, don't talk about how close we came to the 6th European cup, or the fact that he would actually change his system to accommodate the players he had, and last but not least - don't mention how we were without a doubt a European Giant under rafa, winning at the Nou Camp and at the Bernebau.

I haven`t forgotten anything. I don`t live in the past doesn`t mean I have forgotten it. Youcan mention his accolades as much as you want BUT you fail to mention his abject failures in the TW, failed to win the PL by conceding 11 draws (22 points dropped by playing not to lose instead of playing for the win), and airing our dirty laundry in public just to perpetuate himself in power, if you like. As a whole, he had his chance and I thank him for his services to our cause BUT he is the past and like KK, Souness and other servants, the past is where they belong.