01 Mar 2016 21:52:26
14 points above relagation zone, 10 wins from 26 games 11th in the league and BELOW Chelsea after their abysmal start.
Facts are facts somebody needs the finger pointing at them, Either staff or players its disgusting to be where we are right now. Ed002 has said klopps style has been found out, is it him? Ed001 has mentions you can count the players who have impressed klopp on one hand, is it them?
Either way something is wrong.
01 Mar 2016 23:20:44
We all know something is wrong and we have known that since last season. All we have to do is finish strong and prepare for next season hence, get our targets in early and make sure we are ready to go from the first game. All the other stuff you mentioned just sounds like a whine that I have no intention of responding to. Sounds more like a knee jerk reaction to a situation that you haven't thought through yet and just parroting other people's opinions. Btw, we have two games in hand so chill out.
01 Mar 2016 23:33:02
Patience is a virtue.
01 Mar 2016 23:51:38
The players are average.
02 Mar 2016 00:18:49
We have average players. I've been saying it all season.
Just wipe this season off the map it was all about getting in a young top manager who's won titles and waiting till summer to actually start building a TEAM. (Not a load of central midfielders)
02 Mar 2016 00:20:20
Like most things, I'd think it's a combination of all of the above Jay19 along with loads of injuries and a clogged fixture list rather than just any singular issue.
02 Mar 2016 01:07:56
Whose on the next coach to Stranraer Ron?
02 Mar 2016 01:23:36
Also chelsea have plaued more games! That helps gain more points!
02 Mar 2016 01:48:42
We've got 2 games in hand on Chelsea. Hypothetical, but win them both and we're 5 points above them. We're 9 behind City and amazingly 19 behind Leicester, though they have played 2 more.
This season is a tough one to call. Though our squad is average, we have put a few teams to the sword when on song. Take into account our defensive frailty and injuries, our striking injuries and poor money spent and a midfield offering little attacking threat, and our current position becomes easier to understand, though not entirely excuse. We've also had a change of manager and coaches and failed to replace Suarez and Gerrard.
02 Mar 2016 03:21:29
this is the aftermath of sunday rearing its ugly head imo. yes Chelsea and everton are above us in the league, we are mid table because we are to inconsistent, why are you throwing your rattle out of the pram just because Chelsea are 1pt in front of us?, under hiddink they are one of the form teams, also there was nothing wrong with there playing squad they had a situation with mourinho, unlike klopp the new Chelsea manager will only need to make subtle changes and they will be challenging again for next seasons title.
{Ed001's Note - at the start of the season most people expected Chelsea to finish above us, so why is it a shock that they have moved ahead of us now by a point when we have two games in hand?}
02 Mar 2016 03:51:38
a different perspective:
Chelsea with players like Hazard, Costa, Matic, Courtois etc are 1 point above us and we have 2 games in hand.
Look we're not doing good, but we can do better yes.
But i would say its a mix both, our players are not good enough, and maybe the manager needs to adapt his tactics abit to the type of players we have?
i don't know, but i don't feel its and either or case, but more of both. players underperforming, manager not able to get the best out of players at his disposal too.
02 Mar 2016 04:17:17
well said ed I myself had Chelsea down for a least a top 2 finish before the season started, there campaign was a big of a shock to me as the one Leicester are having.
02 Mar 2016 04:51:25
U know something is wrong when Thomas Tuchel took over same set of Dortmund players and get them firing all cylinders and playing attractive football.
{Ed001's Note - no you don't, don't be silly. There was a lot more to it than that, which anyone with a clue would know.}
02 Mar 2016 04:55:47
I think in key positions we just lack the players needed. Ed002 caused a stir with his comments about Klopp being inflexible/ unadaptable but I mean if you look at our team and the system Klopp has tried to play then it true. He's looking to play a similar game to his Dortmund side of old yet without the quality they possessed or the right players to do the job. That is not good management irrespective of what anyone says - and look I like Klopp, his attitude, his spirit, etc etc but looking at it from a purely strategic point of view he has gotten it wrong (IMO) . Add to that the complete dearth of real quality in the side and you can see where the problems lie.
We persist with Moreno despite him showing ineptitude, positional naivety and poor concentration again and again. Smith needs to start games from now till the season finishes.
Clyne has been marginally better defensively but has shown no guile at all when getting forward and to be honest may as well just sit back as he contributes so little (except loss of possession) - I suspect the only reason Flanagan has yet to usurp him is the staff are managing his return from a lengthy injury.
Mingolet and his consistency in cocking up and conceding goals is a story everybody on here is familiar with. As ed001 rightly said the great saves he was lauded for in that final were saves you would expect any good keeper to make - and his mistake was one no good keeper would concede.
The centre backs have changed so much this season due to injury and form that there hasn't been scope for anybody to form a cohesive partnership. It's no an excuse for the lack of quality but that sort of disruption really helps no one.
In the middle of the park Henderson is carrying an injury and so his effectiveness is massively reduced. Lucas does the job he does well but is now looking like being better suited to centre back. Emre Can has bright moments but frustrates the hell out of me with his inconsistency and especially his lazy passing - at this moment in time he is not economical enough with the ball. Milner? Words fail me. Headless chicken with no quality. His corners are unbelievably bad.
Wingers - we have none lol! A big problem.
Attacking midfielders - we have loads! Coutinho and Firmino have shown their quality. Lallana doesn't look good enough (as much as I like the lad) . Ibe has been in dreadful form (hence he has been dropped) . Texiera could of been good but has not been given any opportunities so looks to be off.
Forwards - Ings been out all season. Sturridge only really returned. Benteke woeful and slow and the striker many of us on here were adamant we should not sign. Origi has looked bright but again has also had injury disruptions.
I mean looking at this we are lacking in almost all areas of the pitch for whatever reason. There are a number of players who will shine but far, far too many who are not up to task. Klopp hasn't really organised us well enough in terms of game strategy to reflect this and I think it has caused additional problems. This is no call for Klopp to be sacked or something - there is simply a lot of fervour surrounding him which seems tobe making him immune to criticism - I think some of the faults do come back to him, I certainly think our results could have been better in spite of the obvious squad deficiencies.
Just my thoughts, sorry for the obscene length.
{Ed001's Note - sorry but I stopped bothering when you tried to claim Klopp is playing the same system as he did at Dortmund, that is not true. We are not even playing close to a similar system. I really wish people would watch the two teams before making ludicrous comments like that.}
02 Mar 2016 04:58:42
Can you elaborate on that ed? I'm just curious about your thoughts on it.
{Ed001's Note - we are dropping off, not playing the high press, we are pressing at a much lower level. In a full press of the kind Klopp favours, four or more are pressing the ball and blocking passing avenues, we usually have one or two pressing, while the rest filter back into position. There are many other differences, such as playing with a fluid 4-4-2, rather than the shape he favoured in the Bundesliga.}
02 Mar 2016 05:53:10
We never recovered from the loss of Luis Suarez.
02 Mar 2016 06:44:48
What did we win with Luis Suarez?
Our problems with the team are much deeper than the loss of Suarez, his presence papered over some deep cracks.
02 Mar 2016 09:02:55
We won many games, many new fans and a CL place. And we created a serious fear factor. It all dissapeared when he went.
02 Mar 2016 09:38:02
I really want to defend Klopp here. I’ve been studying change-efforts in organisations and it isn't the easiest thing to do and you need to accept that short-term fixes rarely work and if they do, often leads to nothing but a temporary upswing. I feel confident that Klopp is working on long-term objectives and i am happy about that. At the same time i am confident that he knows that there isn't much patience in football and "now" is the king. But we just have been in a cup final. Isn't to bad really.
And changes are needed. You may call it transition and you may call it something else. But transition isn’t necessarily the worst thing in the world if you plan it carefully, know how to implement your ideas, care to evaluate and adjust along the road. And I do feel that Klopp is a lot better at doing so than our previous manager – who for me, looked incapable of that.
Klopp took over a dysfunctional team, poorly assembled and with no balance at all. We barely have any wide-players (senior at least) and a ton of attacking midfielders who all want to run with the ball and the ball played to their feet. We have a goalkeeper who is continuously making mistakes and… well don’t get me started on Mignolet. Our left back is young and tenacious but is really struggling with his defending, positioning, timing and crossing. Several players where bought that wasn’t needed, some like Benteke who many of us knew was never going to fit in and some like Milner on far to big money considering their actual ability. We severely lack runners from deep, people moving without the ball, running the channels. We have Sturridge, Ings and Origi who do that, but two of them have been injured for a large part of Klopps reign and are now trying to get back to form and Ings is out long term. Henderson, if he wasn’t carrying an injury, could make those important runs from deep – but at his current fitness level he can’t. The previous manager continuously shifted around in our central defence and never settled on a partnership who could develop an understanding – with the mainstay Skrtel being someone nobody understands. Klopp haven’t been able to settle on a duo because of an ocean of injuries.
Furthermore several players looked extremely low on confidence prior to Klopps arrival. Rodgers reportedly alienated several players. A number of players were continuously played out of position. Rodgers was constantly changing his formation and his trying to be clever with his tactics – but all resulting in nothing but aimless passing around and recycling of possession – a bad habit a number of the players struggle to get rid off.
The fans had been and are venting their frustrations in a not so nice way, in the stadium, on forums like this, twitter etc. - and the atmosphere at Anfield where (and still is) terrible I am told.
Just days after Klopp arrived both Ings and Gomez got long-term injuries – both players who could have contributed a lot. And what a difference it would have made to have Flanagan - love that guy.
I still haven’t mentioned a flawed loan system that does nothing good for most the players that we previously farmed out thoughtlessly.
So there is a lot of things going on, a lot of things that need changing, a lot of things that need fixing. It’ll take time for sure – but it’ll be worth the wait. Had Klopp just adapted completely to his players – or the way they been taught to play by Rodgers - we might have seen slightly better results this year. But it wouldn’t have improved us much overall. I like the fact that Klopp have decided that we need to start from scratch. Relearn. Restart. While he have still made adjustments to his preferred way of playing – to cope and get us through the season. We will be better next season because of this. We have started learning now instead of waiting to the summer. Things are going to get better – and they already are. Next season I expect you all will see it more clearly. It is far, far too early to write him off as a failure. It is far, far too early to say his methods don’t work. I cringe when I read some of the comments on here. How could anybody think that all our issues would miraculously go away? Rodgers spend 3 years messing it up and It won't be fixed in a matter of month. Yes I would have hoped for the results to be a little bit better, but anybody denying that our general performance level haven’t gone up is out of their mind or simply can’t remember the last season and a half under Rodgers. Everything is better. We now have a manager with balls, charisma and honesty instead of a manager with beautiful white teeth who constantly talks bull. We have a manager who – in cooperation with competent people like Watzke, Zorc etc – managed to take a worse team than what we currently got and get them in to a Champions League final through good planning, coaching and recruitment. I’ve had it with the argument about him not being able to change, adapt etc. He already did hare at Liverpool as ed001 rightly pointed out. He did that throughout his time at Dortmund. Even his last season – the one many use as a stick to beat him – he adapted, changed and found a formula for success that worked quite well in the second part of the season.
Klopp is the one, the only one – for our current situation. The best we could ever hope for and our best option for getting better. There may be better managers out there – but he is the best for us. He’ll make mistakes, we all do – but I trust him to learn from it.
Now I hope all you who doubt is capable of doing the same. I hope that you’ll soon realize that you where wrong and I was right. Klopp was right. And then we can start moving together as we are supposed to do, in the right direction – towards glory.
01 Mar 2016 23:23:07
Couldn't agree more. I wanted klopp more than anyone but this is not acceptable. The honey moon period is over and maybe he needs to toughen up a bit and stop being too nice. A ruthless streak is defenetly needed in the summer.
02 Mar 2016 08:35:56
It would be a shame and hard truth if Chelsea were to finish above us this season, The only season I have seen them struggle in past 10 years or more. An interim getting the best out of the players at his disposals.
02 Mar 2016 10:14:15
Brenda - it's a Megabus 😉.
02 Mar 2016 17:14:11
Kiva - hard truth? For me it doesn't matter who finishes sbove us this year. honestly! Building team etc more imp for me. And chelsea are still the defending champs! They got stale with Mou for lots of readons and stopped playing then suddenly once he's gone they're fine sgain. On the flip-side, say we go on a similar run to close the season.!?