Liverpool banter 217425

 

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07 Nov 2017 06:53:55
What's the plan for Grujic? Someone mentioned he is been used as a defensive midfielder in the under 23 team. Smart idea considering there are too many B2B midfielders at the club already.

Agree4 Disagree0

07 Nov 2017 07:49:26
He played in the holding role for the u23's in a 3-1 victory over Manchester United. He was arguably the best player on the pitch as well.

I agree, it would be very clever to develop him for the position now when he is young enough to grasp it. Could be a masterstroke, could back fire. Hopefully it's the former!

07 Nov 2017 08:10:01
I really hope we see more of him cos if he leaves he will be one we regret letting go I guarantee.

07 Nov 2017 08:58:48
The club should then persist with the CDM role for Grujic. Could save us having to splash out on a specialist CDM in the summer that Klopp may not even play regularly. Grujic is not going to start ahead of Keita, Lallana, Gini so maybe he could prove a worthy challenger to Hendo for the CDM role.

07 Nov 2017 08:59:31
Harry no need to dramatize it mate. We signed a 19 year old who had not yet established himself as a certain kind of midfielder.

What is wrong with a 21 year old playing in our u23's, getting the odd first team cameo, and working on becoming a specialist for a certain role?

You are right, we have no idea what position he will be used in going forward. You rarely ever do with young players though. You shouldn't confine them to one role at a young age because you might find that your rubbish left back develops into a brilliant winger. Gareth Bale?

There is no rush. Grujic has time on his side, and he is learning new things. Leave him to it and stop heaping unnecessary pressure on him to be playing first team football and know his best position.

07 Nov 2017 10:17:33
You've lost me now Harry. You just quoted me and tried to claim it was your own post?

Grujic is a kid. Not every youth player develops at the same rate as Raheem Sterling. We all knew Sterling was special from day one. That doesn't mean Grujic is a bad player though.

You say the club has no idea what to do with Grujic as if we should already know the position a 21 year old will play for the next decade.

Gerrard started at right back. Henry on the wing. Lucas in attacking midfield. Bale at left back. Kompany was a midfielder. Ederson was an outfield player!

Again, you're obsessing over player roles. Grujic has another 2 years before he (and Klopp) needs to know who he is as a player. There is no need to start whittling over what type of midfielder he will be. Let him develop into whatever he will be in his own time. So what if he doesn't become a £50m player? He pretty much cost nothing in the world of football.

Chill out mate 😉.

07 Nov 2017 10:24:49
Good post mate but the only thing I would say it's that the players you offer as a counterpoint were mostly playing first team football already. I hold my hand up, I haven't fact checked my own claim either but it's how I remember it in my own head. I would certainly like to see him stay though and break into first team.

07 Nov 2017 10:41:11
Grujic was called the new Matic in Serbia so hopefully he'll become as good a DM.

07 Nov 2017 10:50:54
To be fair Umbilical, they were all playing in worse teams than our current side though.

Grujic has still managed a few sub appearances this season and played the whole game in the League Cup. Just getting on our bench at 21 takes some degree of quality when you see how massive the squad is.

Different players develop at different rates anyway. If Rodgers had understood that, maybe we'd have Suso and Gulacsi in the team instead of Milner and Mignolet ☹ Klopp seems more patient. He gave Kevin Stewart until he was 24 to prove himself for us. He isn't rushing the likes of Ward, Origi or Kent out the door either; instead giving them chances and loans to develop and prove themselves.

Grujic may be a slow burner. It might be hard for him to adapt as well. Those i listed may have been playing more regularly in the first team at 21, but they may have been in countries where they knew the language fluently? Grujic also needs to adapt to no longer being so much physically stronger than everyone else on the pitch like he was at youth level. Now he is up against men, his physicality alone isn't enough.

We as a club have got to learn to be more patient. I'm glad you say you would like to see him stay and provide him with the chance to break into the team. Some fans just want shot of anyone who isn't a £50m player by 21 years old. It's sad that football has gotten that way. I honestly don't think a legend like Carragher would've made it at the top level if he had come through 20 years later. He was terrible at the start of his career. Patience paid off though.

07 Nov 2017 11:28:16
We paid £5m for him 😂 how is that over the top for a player rated highly across Europe?

I'm also pretty sure he wasn't signed with the thought "we'll sell him for a 900% profit in 2 years". He has been signed for a long term future at the club. In the short term, he is not quite ready to be a first team regular, but so what? He's 21 for god sake.

Danny Ings was not expecting to leave either so you've made that up. He is still recovering from a very long injury lay off, and wants to stay and fight fir a Liverpool future. Danny Ward also wants to fight for a place at Liverpool long term. Under previous regimes he'd have been sold 3 years ago to a club in League 1 or 2. Klopp has given him chances to go on loan and play in our first team though, whilst working with better coaches at Liverpool than he would have in the football league, and he has become a far better player for it. Ward hasn't had enough first team chances for my liking, but he's had more than the likes of Gulacsi ever got. Ings and Ward will probably both get another loan move in January. Klopp is being patient with them despite their age. I honestly don't know why you'd bring them up. They don't support your point at all. Were they £50m players at 21? No. And yet somehow they are still at the club and still might have a future here. It's hard to even decipher your point to be honest. Though it looks like you're just taking a cheap pop shot at FSG, which is completely u related to this thread.

You are talking about a load of nonsense, not "the business point". We don't buy players to sell them for a profit. We buy players to develop them and compete on the pitch. If they think they've outgrown us and force their way out and we make a profit, then that profit is just collateral for us losing a good player. When we lost Sterling, we went out and signed Firmino for an absolute fortune. If what you were saying was true, and the club are just buying young to sell and make money, we'd have pocketed £45m from the Sterling sale and used the £5m left to go and sign someone like Nathan Redmond. Like Southampton do.

FSG constantly get these ridiculous, uneducated accusations thrown at them. We have an astronomical net spend since they took over. Only City, United and Chelsea have spent more. I feel like you're just ranting and deflecting now. How on earth have you gone from Marko Grujic playing DM for the u23's, to questioning the clubs ambition?

07 Nov 2017 11:54:26
Just to pick up on a few other points actually Harry. Grujic was not ignored, he was injured. Whenever he has been fully fit during his time at the club, he's been involved with the first team and made cameo appearances.

As for Brannagan, he played the other day for the u23's in a 7-0 win and is also still just a kid. His issue now is that Ejaria, Woodburn and Arnold can all play positions he plays in and are more highly rated. He was probably supposed to go on loan in the summer but he got injured.

You're making things up, again.

I'm going to take a stab in the dark here; you're upset that Coutinho is leaving aren't you? So you're pointing the finger at the club for signing young players to make a profit because Coutinho joined for £8.5m as a teenager, and then we are selling him for in excess of £100m when he asks to leave. The problem with your argument is Harry, we sell the likes of Sterling and Coutinho because they want to leave. Not because we want to sell them.

All of the money will be reinvested. So your point is mute buddy. And i still don't really know why you chose to bring it up on this thread by making a lose comparison to the Grujic situation.

07 Nov 2017 12:00:24
Harry what are you on about? Paid over the tops? He was cheap by today’s standards. Who expected him to hit the ground running? Only you most likely. Even the Ed’s said we was well sought after but not ready for first team football. How did Klopp ignore him? He was injured for a lot of the time and obviously struggled to get up to fitness. The team requirements has now changed so seems like a good idea if we can develop Him into a role which fulfills our needs.

07 Nov 2017 12:28:11
Well said Swish cleaner. It's all about developing players into what you need. No point in coaching the whole academy for the same positions, or for positions where they have no chance of a career at the club.

07 Nov 2017 12:50:57
Talking rubbish AGAIN Harry! Totally agree with you MK. I can’t even be bothered to write any more on the matter though as it falls on deaf ears with Harry and MK your wasting valuable moments if your life trying to explain to him mate.

07 Nov 2017 13:00:09
You expected a 19 year old playing in the Serbian league to hit the ground running in the premier league, despite being injured nearly all season?

You're right Welshred84, i really am wasting my time here!

07 Nov 2017 13:34:42
I see sideways has a point.

If only he had agreed to his father and continued his development he would have been better off.

He has been stagnating for 2 years now. Injured or developing in reserves from a first team locally.

Cheers.

07 Nov 2017 14:55:30
So if he doesn't ever play in the first team as a regular, that means I'm wrong that it was ever the plan for him to play for LFC? But then go on to say he wasn't signed to be a reserve player? You are just contradicting yourself now. You're argument has more holes in it than a crumpet (that's a British delicacy by the way) .

The long term plan for every player at every level of every club is to get them into the first team. Football is not a wish granting industry though. If you don't make the cut, you get moved on. The plan for Grujic is and always has been for him to be a first team regular one day in some capacity. Just like it is for every player at LFC right down to the 6 year olds in the academy.

My only argument throughout this whole thing has been that writing Grujic off indefinitely is ridiculous. I'm not sat here telling everyone he will definitely make it at LFC as a first team regular. I'm just saying he still has a chance. You on the other hand are acting like a know it all, claiming your opinion that he won't make it as a fact. Then you follow it up with "come back in a year" knowing full well nobody is childish enough to actually bother doing it if you do turn out to be wrong.

Everything is black and white with you. Grujic might not make it at LFC, but it is far to early to completely write him off. Why can't you accept that there are grey areas in football? There are no guarantees. It is a game built on foundations of subjectivity with an infinite number of variables.

You bring up Ibe and Allan; Why? Ibe was a better youth player (up to age 18) than Sterling hands down. Anyone who watched them both as kids will tell you that. At 16, Ibe was scoring a screamer for Wycombe seniors. Sterling had not even stepped onto a pitch at senior level. However, Sterling developed later on at around 19-21 years old to surpass Ibe, whilst Ibe stagnated at about 19 and stopped developing. Your example yet again just proves my point that players develop at different rates which is why you can't write Grujic off. As for Allan, what on earth does he have to do with anything? He can't get a work permit but that is completely unrelated to anything we've discussed.

I'm not trying to bring a calmness or relief over anything mate. I'm just asking you to stop with the hyperbole. You go so over the top about your views, stating them as facts, that it makes you seem arrogant. I have never seen you use the phrase "in my opinion". You just make statements as though they are non-debatable and occasionally write "FACT" at the end just to really wind people up.

What i don't get is how your point has now morphed away from Grujic being a failure for not being worth £50m at 21, to slagging off the clubs transfer policy, to now slagging off the way it gets the best out of its youngsters. You are so easily side-tracked that it makes coherent debate with you nearly impossible mate!

Liverpool and every other team in England with an academy mainly signs young players (some of which leave us for profit), and Liverpool does have a poor recent history of developing some young players. However, the very fact that we sell a lot of players at a profit proves that we do occassionally get it right with youngsters! Added to that, the fact that we have signed players who were already the finished article is just further proof that the club doesn't just sign kids hoping to make a profit.

A) We are trying to sign players to win on the pitch (Salah, Keita, Ox, Robertson) so clearly not just kids (Solanke) . 4 out of 5 summer signings were senior players. If we had got Van Dijk as well it would've been an even greater percentage. Although perhaps you think we were willing to pay £60m for Van Dijk so we could sell him for £180m in 3 years time when he is nearly 30?

B) Not all youngsters at the club fail, or else we wouldn't have improved the likes of Sterling and Coutinho so much so that we could get £200m for 2 players who cost £9m combined.

So morph your point into something else because you're still stating subjective views, which can be easily disproved, as though they are concrete facts.

07 Nov 2017 18:31:53
Harry posts a whole lot of stuff but says a whole lot of nothing. I have read this thread and all Harry is saying is that cos Grujic has not made the progress that he only, would have liked for him to make, he will be a flop if he does not make the first team. It is the typical myopic thinking that has dogged his comments on these boards.

Everything is black and white with him as NO grey areas or context exists in his posts. This is why he hates Klopp and Hendo. Cos Klopp does not do what he thinks Klopp should do, he is useless and should be sacked whenever that is. Cos Hendo does no play the same way a past or non LFC player of his liking plays (Alonso, Fernandinho, Dembele, Dier etc), he is crap and must be sold, as if these players don't pass sideways when they play. Like Welsh said, you are wasting your time MK.







 

 

 
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