23 Sep 2021 03:11:45
I don't get it. One guy scores two poacher's goals and the other scores a goal and adds an assist. But not a word about them, aside from rambling ad infinitum about the midfield as if that's what shows on the scoreboard at the end of the game. What do you guys have against Minamino and Origi? 😛.

23 Sep 2021 03:53:20
I believe origis 2 year backs legend mode is back!

23 Sep 2021 07:28:50
Origi and Taki are only seen as transfer makeweights for a new shiny shiny by many.
Taki in particular played well, fingers crossed that's a marker for him and he can stop on from here. There's a cracking player in there.

23 Sep 2021 09:03:13
Both played well, twice now I've seen Origi play and worked hard both times. Taki played really well too and showed great composure for his goals - delighted gor both and you're right ArAy, midfield was poor, especially 1st half, but that shouldn't be all that's talked about.

Those 2 played well, Kelleher had a good game, Tsimikas was very good again, cos looked solid and assured on the ball.

Bradley grew into the game, better 2nd half, Gordon was solid and thought Moreton looked good when he came on, let Jones loose who had played ok but much better in the second half not playing the 6.

23 Sep 2021 09:46:20
Totally agree ArAy and Flash - not part of the fickle ‘untouchables’ group therefore should be got rid of for a couple of £100m replacements.

The fact that they play well and put in a shift when they are selected is not commented upon and just gets ‘swept under the carpet’’.

Of course, if the same group gets us to the final they will be promoted to ‘legend’ status and we can all then agree that they should be given massive new contracts and never sold as they will have become indispensable too.

All in a season’s work for a modern day fan.

23 Sep 2021 09:58:19
Spot on, WDW and esp. Flash. It seems the bar is lowered or raised depending on who the fickle crowd want to go after. Origi and Taki have performed when called upon this season and not a peep about them cos the fickle crowd cannot stand the sight of them in the squad.

However whenever Naby finishes a game (regardless of how well he played or didn't), they grade him on a curve and overlook his flaws (which are still there, btw) . Go figure.

23 Sep 2021 10:22:27
The question is have Mino and Origi done enough by clearing against Norwich reserves to replace Mane, Salah, Bobby or Jota.
For me the answer is no.
I’d like to see Mino get more opportunities but unfortunately he’s not ahead of of the other 4.

23 Sep 2021 10:33:51
Maybe people are just waiting for consistency from them rather than jumping on the band wagon after a few good performances?
They both did play well though and deserve some praise, let's hope it continues.

23 Sep 2021 10:58:58
JK23 and DirtyMic, I fully agree with you guys on that. I was just pointing out how some on here are quick to treat players they don't like a certain way and then, big up those they like when they achieve literally the very same things. Just saying.

That said, I love Mino and always have done since I saw him rip us a new one in the CL with RB Salzburg. The guy is a very clever player, picks up brilliant positions in the box and his touch as well as speed of execution when taking his chances are brilliant, IMO. I think the only way we can ever know if he can replace any of the front 4 is to actually give him opportunities. Without that, we will never know. Over to you, Herr Klopp.

23 Sep 2021 11:09:54
JK,
Three of our front four are exceptional and the group work even better as a unit when they are ‘on song’. The fourth one (Diogo) is just starting to get a little bit of criticism after his exceptional start last season, so the four might become three, or even two if Bobby shows signs of needing time to get back up to speed. Either way, not having the same attributes as the four doesn’t make Taki or Divock bad players.

Mic,
You can only comment on what you see - consistency is difficult to achieve if you play one midweek match every two or three weeks. If you take the old adage ‘your only as good as your last game’ then both of them aren’t bad players and can do a job, or at least be given the benefit of the doubt.

23 Sep 2021 11:29:03
I think some need to practice what they preach. Pointless moaning about moaners and then throwing Kieta etc straight under the bus in other posts.

It’s all opinions and everyone is entitled to them.

I’m sure some fans tuck themselves into bed at night believing they are a better fan than the next.

23 Sep 2021 11:37:00
They did their job against Norwich but it was hard to judge them properly because they had so little of the ball. That could be because the team was generally disjointed but i suspect it was largely because the midfield was so bad, right up until Moreton came on for Keita. That said Origi had a very good game against Milan and looked properly up for it. The signs are very encouraging and i hope they both can continue to deliver.

23 Sep 2021 11:50:54
WDW I agree mate that they aren’t bad players but performing against Norwich reserves is a bare minimum for me.
Jota has been getting criticism because fans don’t want to accept that Bobby started on the bench. Last season and up until 2 weeks ago Mane was the one being said had to be sold and now it’s we need Bobby back to replace Jota as we aren’t fluid. This is despite the fact we have broken the record for goal attempts this season and are currently sat joint top with Bobby only playing 81 mins.
Fans say that Mane and Salah can’t score without Bobby and he creates the space but so far so good this season.
For me Jota hasn’t been great this season and I’d be more than happy to see him rotate with Bobby or the other 2 but Mino or Origi starting ahead of them 4 weakens our current attack. That’s not a dig as mane, Salah and Jota / Bobby are a world class 3 but take out one of them and replace with Mino / Origi isn’t a world class 3. But that’s only my opinion I’m sure others will differ.

But Klopps opinion of both is neither have played a league minute this season. Mino was shipped out on loan in Jan and origi played about 9 games worth of minutes last season.

23 Sep 2021 12:10:36
More often that not, you need a decent squad to be successful and sustain it, not just a really strong first eleven. And the age old challenge is having players in the squad who are good enough to make a contribution when they're called upon, but perhaps not quite so good that they'll challenge the first choice player (s) in their position, because that usually leads to one or the other player becoming unhappy and, ultimately, probably leaving, which then puts you back to square 1.

If you take the view that the likes of Origi, Minamino, Tsimikas, Keita and apparently even Curtis Jones in some people's opinions, should be sold and the money pooled in order to buy one high quality player who can come into the first team, then you lose the squad depth. I think the likes of Origi and Minamino are capable of making a contribution. We've certainly seen it from Origi in the past. The problem for them for the last couple of years is that they simply haven't played. They've barely played at all, not helped by the fact that we've gone out of the domestic cups fairly early.

I think Utd under Ferguson got this just right for many years, and it must have been a factor in why they continued to win matches when key players were out injured, and why they were also able to go to the latter stages in domestic cups as well as the league and in Europe. They had a lot of players who didn't make the strongest starting line up but, when needed, they could come in and, when surrounded by top level players, the likes of Phil Neville, Nicky Butt, Wes Brown, John O Shea and others could do a job and make a contribution.

Looking at the line up against Norwich this week, it's the first time in a long while that I looked at the team and the performance and thought that we're able to rest every single player from our first choice eleven or twelve and still put out a pretty decent team that will win matches. The challenge then is to try to give enough game time to this second string so that they are not completely out of touch when they get brought in for one match every now and then.

23 Sep 2021 14:15:33
Olired and West Derby Wanderer. Totally agree with you guys. I was just providing an alternative explanation. I actually said to a friend after the game that I hoped the goals would be good for their confidence and also for the fans confidence in them.
In any case it looks as though Klopp is going to rotate a lot more this season so maybe they will get enough games to get some consistency going. So far the team has looked really good this season and really I'm just loving being a Liverpool fan at the moment. I was born in 91 so until this team came along the last title was the year before I was born. For that reason every player involved will always be special to me.

23 Sep 2021 17:01:43
JK, people are free to criticize whoever or whatever player they want and for whatever reason. And Yes, they are also free to criticize other moaners for moaning as well. We saw that all summer over the TW and I don't recall the Ed's ever telling people to "practice" whatever they preach, either. If they want to throw Keita under the bus then, they should be able to do so while others are free to challenge them on that.

It is a public forum where people air opinions about everything they please and if someone thinks people are moaning unnecessarily or being OTT in their opinions, they are free to challenge them as well.

23 Sep 2021 18:36:59
🤦🏻‍♂️.

23 Sep 2021 18:39:13
Oli you’ve basically just agreed with me whilst trying to argue against me 🤦🏻‍♂️.

23 Sep 2021 20:34:01
JK23, I'll answer to your first response on this thread. For me, it's all about expectations. Origi was bought as a world beater by Rodgers, and while I'll agree that this has not worked out, he is undoubtedly a backup player to the front 3 who delivers when given the chance. He's delivered at key moments (we won't go over those again) . Minamino was clearly bought as a backup to the front 3, because we had an established attack that was helping us win our first EPL title in 30 years. So what are my expectations of them? They're backups to the front 3 and I'm ecstatic when they deliver and score goals. You're a seasoned commentator and observer of the game. Are your expectations really for them to surpass and do better than our front 3, as you've written above? When they've been bought at 10 Million and 7 Million respectively? Is that what you think the club was thinking too at the time of purchase? Really? It's like you're saying that Taki and Origi scoring 3 goals is just okay, because the other 4 (Salah, Mane, Firmino, Jota) would have scored 6 or 7? That's not how it works. And you know better.

Yes, I'm one of those that routinely throws Keita under the bus. It's expectations, once again. I expected the guy (bought for 55 Million) to set the sky on fire. The next N'Golo Kante type of player, the guy who was going to help our front 3 double their goal output (I'm greedy) . Many of us were using the word "dynasty" around that time. This guy was going to help. And he has not even come close to it. It's been 3 long years. This is Sturridge all over again, except Sturridge didn't cost that much, relatively speaking. You can argue injuries and chances for starts and whatever else you want, but the undeniable fact is that Keita is also coasting along on a reputation established on a stellar past, with no matching performance for 3 years. He's nowhere near my expectations, and I'll bet you that the same holds true for the club. What did they pay 55 Million for then if that isn't the case? Imagine if we still had the money. Would we have been going around, in the summer, watching the likes of Saul Niguez, Bissouma, Daka, Malen and whoever else, slip through our fingers? This is why Keita get's my goat. And this is also why I praise backups, or any youngster, when they perform as per or above my expectations. It's not moaning or whining, although it's very easy for so many to dismiss it as such. It's an open and free public forum of debate and discussion.

23 Sep 2021 21:24:42
Aray the Kieta comment Wasn’t aimed at you and it was never meant to defend Kieta. I have been one of the most critical posters on here in the past but have always been moaned at when I have so it was more of a fact that the people who have moaned seem to contradict themselves when they then decide to criticise any player.

With regards to Origi and Minamino again I’m not moaning about them and I said on the live chat on tue they did well. But for 70k a week playing well against Norwich reserves is the minimum expected surely. Any fans opinion of them means nothing because it all boils down to Klopps opinion. Neither have featured in the league at all this season and I don’t think they will actually feature much. We lose Mane and Salah in Jan so there’s a great opportunity for them then but at a guess (which is all it is) is they will be utilised in the cups and maybe the CL games against Porto and Milan.

Origi scored on tue for the first time in 2 seasons and Mino hasn’t played a premier league minute for us since last Jan where he came on for 6 mins against Burnley.

Would I have issues with them being given more minutes? No.
Do I expect them to be given more minutes? Unfortunately it’s the same answer.

23 Sep 2021 22:22:20
That's fair JK. I'm up for a healthy constructive debate any time.

I don't have any argument about Origi's lack of games and goals in the last two years. Facts are facts and they speak the loudest. Now watch as the club moves Origi on in January, and we either will not replace him until the summer, or buy someone who will be at the same level. Cue the moaning and whining. LOL. 😂.

24 Sep 2021 08:49:29
Aray good man. The point i was trying to get across mate was there should be more debate. But when another player gets criticised those posters get shot down for it but then the same fan will contradict themselves by criticising another player. Naby was just the example I used at the time.

My initial post was rushed due to work so it was probably more abrupt and not as clear as I wanted it to be reading it back now. No offence to anyone was meant.