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24 Nov 2022 14:00:14
I don’t want the club to end up in the hands of clearly unsuitable owners who have absolutely no ambition for the club other than as a means to enrich themselves and pillage the club for every last penny they can squeeze, which is exactly what HBSE and Pagliuca and that type are about.
What I want is entirely academic as the only people apparently interested are Americans who will drag our club down only to make money for themselves.
As much as it would be great to have someone like a Ballmer or an Ambani interested, as they’re both insanely rich without being hedge fund/ private equity types or being problematic in the way that Middle East state ownership would be (not that any are interested anyway), they’re not interested and never have been.
Regrettably we’re most likely to end up with more vultures and given the alleged sale price, more leveraged debt for the club to pay back as these types never risk their own money, particularly when it’s into the billions and how can you honestly look at that prospect in any other way than it being bleak? If FSG stay we can’t compete as they can’t afford/ don’t want to pay to rebuild the team and if they sell, we’re being sold to more vultures who also won’t rebuild as the money is tied up in paying back loans. Either way unless anything changes we’re likely to be getting a turd sandwich as things stand.
We were very close to going into administration, painfully close. That would have been a 9 point deduction and had a catastrophic effect on the season at that time. So for my liking, we were too close to going out of business for comfort. Owners like HBSE/ Pagliuca will drag us back there.
1.) 24 Nov 2022 14:27:47
Agree completely VVVV. We’ll said.
2.) 24 Nov 2022 14:35:10
Did FSG buy the club by leveraging debt on it?
3.) 24 Nov 2022 14:54:57
No offense mate, but constantly ramming the same OPINION down our throats, doesn't make it fact. I have no issues with you wearing your tinfoil hat about Americans and investment partnerships, but can you do it quietly in the corner so i don't have to read the same post 5 times a day? Your point has been made and anybody who doesn't agree with it by now, never will.
4.) 24 Nov 2022 15:08:49
I've asked before but can someone tell me how much interest you pay on a £4 billion loan?
5.) 24 Nov 2022 15:22:18
Reading that was like stepping on Lego but with words .
6.) 24 Nov 2022 16:01:43
I'd rather step on Lego meself.
7.) 24 Nov 2022 17:07:12
MK, there’s nothing tin foil hat about having a deep seated mistrust and dislike of the likes of HBSE or Stephen Pagliuca (who you were so effusive about for no other reason than his first names are Stephen Gerard, without considering that he works for one of the most economically destructive PE firms in the World, let alone the USA and has amassed a modest personal fortune through quite frankly appalling business methods) .
As a club we have literally been first hand victims of people like this before and it is somewhat concerning that the only people we’ve apparently attracted are more of these vultures.
Irish, at 6% it’s roughly £25m a month.
8.) 24 Nov 2022 18:10:44
I'm assuming you don't have a sense of humour then or perhaps just don't recognise sarcasm? Obviously i don't want him to own the club just because his name is Stephen Gerard Pagliuca ? i honestly don't know enough about any of the interested parties to have a preference so i'll just leave it to the people in charge to make the right decisions and wait to see how it unfolds. Why stress over something we can't control to the extents you are going to?
Just chill out. I don't mind pessimism on a forum. It keeps the optimists grounded. But i don't need to read the same post over and over. You even felt the need to start your own thread when it didn't come up in another thread. At this point, who are you even arguing with?
9.) 24 Nov 2022 18:18:17
I've got to agree with MK; same points every day makes tough reading. I'd sooner people drum up Mbappe rumours again!
10.) 24 Nov 2022 18:40:38
How do es anyone know what potential buyers we've attracted?
Clickbait sites? Yahoo headlines?
It's not the sort of thing FSG are going to go to some obscure website and say "pssst this is what's really happening" is it?
The constant doom and gloom is funny to read though.
It gets a bit predictable when every player or potential buyer we're linked with is crap or a wrong 'un.
11.) 24 Nov 2022 19:30:36
Yeah you shouldn’t believe everything you read on websites says the poster posting on a website ??♂️.
12.) 24 Nov 2022 20:04:53
So VVVV. At £25 million a month, that equates to £300 million a year? If Liverpool don't even make anything close to that in profit a year how can new owners leverage that against the club?
I have to say it makes no sense or logic to me. ?♂️?♂️.
13.) 24 Nov 2022 20:38:28
Like eating dog rubbish but without the dog.
14.) 24 Nov 2022 20:44:32
Right now we have no idea who could buy us, so there is little to no point jumping to conclusions or panicking about how suitable, or not, the potential buyers are.
The powers that be will do their due diligence and we have to trust that FSG pass it on to people with the right intentions.
However, we are not talking pocket change here, there will be a handful capable of buying clubs the size of us and United, but even less actually interested. But of those that are, models similar to FSG will be right up there.
As much as we all love liverpool, there is limited growth due to the size of the club, so personally I'm expecting very little to change other then a new name above the door.
15.) 24 Nov 2022 21:02:07
Nobody is getting the club w a 4bn loan.
16.) 24 Nov 2022 21:47:15
I applied for a 4 billion loan, my bank said no. Apparently something to do with " stop wasting our time". Shame as I would have been an aswome owner .
17.) 24 Nov 2022 22:09:05
Did you say "please"?
18.) 24 Nov 2022 22:19:20
Why not consider the positive like what Klopp could do on a level playing field. We might even get a couple of midfielders that match your criteria vvvvv.
19.) 24 Nov 2022 22:21:18
I’ll say the same thing I always say here seeing as the OP likes to repeat himself. How can you asset strip a football club. The club lives or dies by maintaining a certain level of success, don’t achieve that and your original - significant - investment is likely to go up in smoke or at the very least diminish rapidly. There is no sense in someone buying the club and bleeding it dry of cash ?♂️.
20.) 25 Nov 2022 04:39:03
I’m not with bigotry and stereotypes. Last I checked FSG were largely Comprised of American fellows and as much as people want to make out that a trophy laden 3 year spell, growing the stadium, upgrading training facilities, improving loan system, consistently competing CL, growing club value and support base 10-fold are all signs that our American owners have brought the club down, ya might need to think again.
21.) 25 Nov 2022 06:16:14
WyRed the club's value will continue to grow. Anyone buying the club now for 3bn or so will own a 8-10bn assets 5-10 years from now. Revenues will grow as we'll all pay more for our tv subscriptions, tickets, merchandise, etc. It's like real estate or the stock market: over time they will continue to increase. Football is now a lucrative global business. Our value will only increase over time.
22.) 25 Nov 2022 06:51:09
If Liverpool were really going to be worth £8/ £10 billion in 5/ 10 years, do you really think FSG would be selling up? I dont!
23.) 25 Nov 2022 07:08:43
I'm with Irish on this, I don't see that as realistic at all. As speculation I think it could get to 5bn over that time, but not as high as your figures red.
If i were in a position to buy a UK club I'd go for a mid-lower end of the table club. The outlay is lower, slightly lower risk but bigger returns. Just look at city as an example.
24.) 25 Nov 2022 07:58:18
Depends how commercially they Run the club Irish mate.
Wyred mate Real and Barcelona are already worth over 5B atm I just see clubs continuing growing the only difference is how much commercially our next owners can catch those clubs as quickly as they can.
Coz I have always had a problem with FSG failing to grow us commercially where we can spend 200M like UTD without stretching our owners pockets or debts.
The next owners must find ways to catch club's like UTD Barcelona Real etc commercially if we want to compete with big boys consistently without relying on our owners or debts to fund players we need.
25.) 25 Nov 2022 08:40:12
Over the last few seasons we have won the lot.
So for on field success to drive the valuation up it’s at one of its highest points. To continue to drive it up we would need to spend money to continue to compete with the likes of City, Potentially Newcastle, Utd and Chelsea etc.
Over the last few seasons we have improved the training facilities and stadium so that again has driven up the valuation. To increase that valuation we would need to further improve or expand by spending money.
The owners could make 10 times their original input or they could hang around for the club valuation to increase. But for that to increase they would need to spend money so their returns would still be roughly the same.
They possibly believe they’re at the peak of their return and are ready to move on.
I’ve heard Henry and FSG are extremely keen on a (can’t remember which one) NFL or NBA franchise in Vegas. I think it’s NFL.
Either way though i think they’ve been great owners especially over the Klopp years and whilst nothing is perfect my only ever downfall was they didn’t back Klopp with more money and risks as he said in his summer conference.
With what we have achieved it’s greater than any other fan of the Premier league has felt over the last 6 years but i think there would have been 1-2 more titles and CL’s in there if we had just taken that risk.
26.) 25 Nov 2022 14:21:59
In the end, nobody knows anything about anything. Let’s just chill and see what happens.
27.) 25 Nov 2022 19:50:43
Poss 8-10bn was a little much i'll go 5-8 within 5-10 year time frame. Who would have said FSG would make 10 times their investment in 12 years? Rhetorical.
16 Nov 2022 18:41:32
Apparently the latest bunch of Charles Ponzi’s to be linked with us are Harris Blitzer Sports Entertainment. Officially one of the worst rated sports franchise owners in the USA across multiple sports (which is some achievement) and not rated good enough to buy Chelsea. Also widely loathed by the fans at Palace. As if being linked to Pagliuca wasn’t bad enough.
1.) 16 Nov 2022 20:51:19
Supposedly in talks wks also.
2.) 16 Nov 2022 22:12:47
VVVV, if they were excluded from the race for Chelsea they are not going to buy (into) us.
Sorry Jay, what does wks mean? I’m old and don’t know all the text speak abbreviations mate.
3.) 16 Nov 2022 22:32:51
Elon looking good and legit right now ?.
4.) 17 Nov 2022 01:26:30
WDW? apparently been in talks for weeks and are reportedly seen as ‘viable’ bidders. I sincerely hope they come nowhere near us as they’re just vultures who’ll load us up with debt. They’d drag us to mid table or worse.
5.) 17 Nov 2022 05:55:13
If they couldn’t get past the suitability test for Chelsea I can’t see them being deemed fit to buy us. Have to say that if they couldn’t get past the FA committee that must be a right bunch of wrong ‘uns.
6.) 17 Nov 2022 07:34:44
Another day, another comment from VVVV about a potential buyer who would ‘drag us to mid table’. Remind us again why someone would want to pay billions of £ for a company and then basically make it fail? I’ve no idea who the people mentioned here are but do be realistic about their intent.
7.) 17 Nov 2022 09:16:14
johnnyr1970, there is a certain breed of American financier who does very well out of specifically buying a company on debt, leveraging that debt against the company they buy so that the company is liable to pay the debt, selling off as much of the assets that they can and cutting costs at every corner, taking all revenue and profit and not reinvesting, then loading more debt in the way of loans onto the company, then they take those loans as dividends for themselves, before winding the company up and walking away having easily made back their money (literally the Bain Capital playbook) . That is the kind of people that are looking at buying our club. And in the specific case of Harris and Blitzer, not one of the sports teams they own have been successful, as they do just enough to keep them running and no more. The likes of Pagliuca or Harris and Blitzer would be extremely bad news to the point of being like Hicks and Gillett.
8.) 17 Nov 2022 15:50:44
I fully agree with VVVV on this point. Bain Capital is everything thing FSG are lied about being and doing BUT actually, are NOT and do NOT do. FSG have been wrongly accused of everything Bain Capital actually is and does as in: being venture capitalists, stripping the club of it's assets, lining their pockets with the extra dough we bring in and taking money out the club, blah, blah, blah. All the above is the calling card of Bain Capital to a T.
As for the other sports group, I do not know them very well so I would defer to VVVV on this one as he has done his homework, I reckon. There are a tone of wealthy suitors out there who would love to buy us and are ready to invest to take us to the next possible level. It doesn't have to be just ANYBODY who is ready to flash the cash.
9.) 17 Nov 2022 17:46:29
Google says there are 3,311 Billionaires in the World. So 2 down and 3,309 still to go. ?♂️.
24 Oct 2022 13:34:35
It was plain to see the midfield needed surgery in the summer. Too many injury prone midfielders, too many midfielders over 30, too many midfielders that weren’t really good enough and absolutely no cover for Fabinho (sorry, but Henderson and Milner are not good enough in the defensive midfield role) .
Ox, Keita, Jones should all have been moved on as between them they’re not good enough to start and offer nothing as rotation/ cover. The idea that only Tchouameni or Bellingham would do is a ridiculous notion, there were multiple very good centre midfielders who were in our alleged price range who would have been a huge improvement on what we have (sangare, nunes as just two examples) .
As it is, we wasted a loan on Arthur who is injury prone and simply not up to the physical rigours of the premier league as he’s too slow, too weak and not clever enough. Genuinely can’t see us moving in the January transfer window until it’s too late and us making another huge mistake on the last minute. As we’ve been here before.
1.) 24 Oct 2022 13:55:33
Interesting how much you have garnered about Arthur’s ability to adapt, given he has played no Premier League matches.
2.) 24 Oct 2022 13:57:08
The fact is FSG fooled us over with the “Right player” nonsense only for them to sign a sick note on the last day of the window. Some are still falling for their crap, it’s baffling.
The club need massive investment and the money isn’t there.
People actually believe, Klopp passed on Bruno Guiemares, Matheus Nunes and countless of other fantastic midfielders in search for the “Right midfielder” ????.
{Ed002's Note - FSG don't pick or sign the players. Why do you make this nonsense up?}
3.) 24 Oct 2022 14:03:46
ED02, I have posted your exact comments many times BUT I guess maybe if you did it, it would help. Im not holding my breathe, tho.
4.) 24 Oct 2022 14:18:19
I mean the board whoever is in charge of decision making. The search for the right midfielder goes on.
{Ed002's Note - I guess you don't understand the process.}
5.) 24 Oct 2022 14:57:33
Who should we have signed then?
6.) 24 Oct 2022 15:11:40
John Henry bad, Jurgen Klopp good. The lack of nuance is frightening.
7.) 24 Oct 2022 15:16:16
I think we just found Harry's new account!
8.) 24 Oct 2022 15:22:16
Honestly, some of these posts are awful. We don’t have to go back too many years to see that we were mid-table dross for much of the PL era. A few bad games and it’s all about how crap the manager and the players are. Some growing up to do around here and a reality check for some.
Maybe take a look at the table which shows which club is the most successful in English football and then reflect on when we actually managed to get back to the top of that table and who was running the show at that point.
9.) 24 Oct 2022 15:28:05
FSG have their issues but i think Klopp takes responsibility for the summer gone. Klopp did an interview with the anfield wrap 11th of July he said
“We need a new midfielder? Please tell me why? we can talk about Jude Bellingham and how good he is, fantastic player no doubt about that but you tell me now which kind of midfielder we lack”.
10.) 24 Oct 2022 15:40:58
A question to the Ed's,
is it possible that J Klopp extended his contract to try to influence those players, who seemed to be wavering, to sign their own extensions.
I personally think Klopp might be burnt out and near his "walk away" point and going for all four cups was his hurrah.
Then again I could just be an idiot. (Just to get that in there before ED002)
{Ed002's Note - No, you are overthinking.}
11.) 24 Oct 2022 15:50:16
We love a conspiracy don't we?
The committee (which includes Klopp) mucked it up in the summer, despite what was a good start to the window.
I just hope they have a plan to remedy it starting in January.
12.) 24 Oct 2022 16:52:51
Another new username Victor, how many do you have now? Are you using this one and 6Times simultaneously?
13.) 24 Oct 2022 16:55:48
Klopp's comments in Aug-22;
"Let me say it like this; from time to time I would be ready to risk a bit more, but, how I said, I don't decide that. Its fine"
Seems to me he wanted to spend big but was stopped.
Maybe he is regretting signing his contract.
14.) 24 Oct 2022 17:05:44
Not sure bringing in a midfielder would have helped all that much when the main issues this season have been:
Injuries and lots of them and to key players all over the pitch.
Loss of fitness and form to key players such as VVD, Trent, Fabinho and Salah.
Our fancy new striker nutting someone and getting himself banned, delaying his integration into the team.
I don’t think we can blame Klopp all that much either, his policy of trying to only bring in the right players rather than right now players has brought us the success it has done in recent years, he didn’t have the benefit of hindsight in that so many players where going to get injured or suffer a catastrophic loss of form and ended up panicking last minute when the injuries started to bite. A new midfielder would have been nice but I don’t think essential at the start of the window.
15.) 24 Oct 2022 17:55:40
Who should we have signed then?
We want a holding midfielder. A box to box midfielder. We want goals from midfield. We want durability.
We want some that is prepared to sit on the bench. We want someone that doesn't want daft money and that doesn't want to go to Madrid. We want someone that we swap for Ox and Keita.
Any ideas? ?.
16.) 24 Oct 2022 18:35:32
Rigsby. Rice + caicedo.
17.) 24 Oct 2022 18:45:05
So now we turn on John Henry
do we all meet at our ground and break into the club and wreck the place and scream FSG out.
Are we going to become like that lot down east lancs road we have won every trophy we could win in 5 years what is up with you lot rebuild of ground an elite manager and coaches some top players and you want to kick off on John Henry and his partners?
18.) 24 Oct 2022 19:24:34
Rice will be down to one year in the summer. He'll go for 50m or so. Love to get him. Prob Chelsea bound unfortunately. Bellingham isn't coming here. We need to accept that. His salah-ry will be more than Salah's. He'll want 500 a week and he'll get it. We can bring in 4-5 players for that.
19.) 24 Oct 2022 20:25:58
Sounds nourishing, Digger.
I don't know how realistic they are though, mate.
20.) 24 Oct 2022 22:18:27
They do have nice ring to them alright Rigsby! In fairness I don't see why we shouldn't be capable of getting 2, both young, have played in prem and prob transfer fees not completely crazy. With rice contract running down his price bound to be dropping as well. Anyway hopefully we get a result against ajax and that will leave us qualified. konate, nunez and thiago all should be available.
21.) 25 Oct 2022 00:06:21
I absolutely stand by my view on Arthur, Anonymous. He’s played as a sub against Napoli and looked poor, played against Rochdale in the Johnstone’s Paint (go and search it out if you want, it doesn’t make good viewing) and was bullied by all and sundry that evening, as he is too slow and too lightweight, then as is standard, he got injured. Hardly inspiring of confidence. The best thing would be to send him back to Juve as he’s no use here.
22.) 25 Oct 2022 10:37:40
Jurgen Klopp is great BUT the guys who hired him are incompetent and tight-fisted. If FSG is holding Klopp back so much then why does he keep extending his contract with them? Why did he literally go to them the last time and ask for an extension? Why hasn't he walked in SEVEN years if they are that tight-fisted and useless as many say on here? I won't hold my breathe for any answers, tho.
Also, Do these people know that were it not the club's Analytics team that convinced JW Henry of Klopp's potential in spite of his last difficult season at Dortmund, he wouldn't even have been hired as the LFC manager cos Henry was sceltical of Klopp's ability to do the job based on his last Dortmund season?
Like Anonymous Woolback said, The lack of nuance is frightening.
VictorVaughanVaudevilleVilain's rumour replies
19 Jan 2023 11:38:21
----You need to stop posting all of this nonsense--------
19 Jan 2023 09:25:27
To be fair, I’d vote for him too Burkey.
19 Jan 2023 09:24:59
kopforever we don’t have the money to make the first j instalment and unless they’re taking an IOU he’ll be going to Chelsea approximately 10 minutes after Todd B has had his first line of the day.
19 Jan 2023 00:05:33
Can’t see us being one of them as there’s multiple media reports that we’ve got no money the rest of the window. Good luck with that £200m in the summer lmfao.
18 Jan 2023 20:52:55
Reality is if FSG are still in charge we sell Salah, that money won’t be going to buy Bellingham as he’s not going to want to sign for owners who can’t take the club forward, so we’d sell Salah and gain nothing.
VictorVaughanVaudevilleVilain's banter replies
19 Jan 2023 12:10:31
Klopp has said there’s no more money available. That’s it. So we are skint.
As for selling to buy, it’s a small budget plus sales, we sold the following. Literally hand to mouth.
Sadio Mane – Bayern Munich – £35.1m
Neco Williams – Nottingham Forest – £17m
Takumi Minamino – Monaco – £15.5m
Ben Davies – Rangers – £4m
Total £71.6m
Then we spent.
Nunez (initial fee) of £64m ( there are add ons of about £20m)
Carvalho £7.7m
Ramsay £6.5m
Arthur (loan) £4m
£82.2m
I’d say that Gakpo was signed from what was remaining of the summer budget and there is no more left until further sales and next summer, which will be £50m at most plus sales. There’s absolutely no reason to think Bellingham will sign as we don’t have the funds and I don’t think we are an attractive proposition to top players at the moment and under our current owners, to think differently is ignoring material fact. It’ll be nunez from Wolves and maybe one other, or a contract renewal for Keita and Milner and Nunez.
19 Jan 2023 00:11:12
If there’s no champions league football next year and we’re as bad next season as we are this season (which without major investment in the squad we probably will be), then I’d imagine that Alisson would probably want to move anyway and ask for a transfer for the sake of his career.
16 Jan 2023 18:50:46
Personally, I think the Chelsea game is more important. Let’s face it, beating wolves just gets us another game against Brighton and I don’t fancy one of those at the moment.
16 Jan 2023 18:49:23
City can’t really complain given how many they’ve had go in their favour. It’s six of one and half a dozen of another. Personally, I think it’s a half decent idea badly implemented by imbeciles. It should be used the same way as in sports like cricket and tennis where there is a limited amount of reviews which if you’re review is unsuccessful, you lose one of them and if it’s successful you keep it, and each side has a limited amount per half. That would help to make it a system that works and doesn’t interfere for its own sake.
16 Jan 2023 14:32:22
In fairness thom, we were threadbare in attack too with Jota, Diaz, Firmino and now Nunes out injured.
As for the FA Cup game, Klopp isn’t getting sacked whatever the result. he has far too much credit in the bank for that.