Liverpool Banter

27 Apr 2024 15:33:16
"If I speak today, there will be fire" - Salah

I wonder if this is just about being benched today or if this is a reflection of a rift in the dressing room.

27 Apr 2024 15:36:45
Wasn't there some arguments on the touchline between klopp and Salah. I missed what happened due to children being naughty.

27 Apr 2024 16:21:13
Who cares, he's always been a prima donna. Legend and prob gets in a LFC best 11 on performances but there's something dislikeable about the fella. He doesn't come across like he has the love and heart for LFC like Klopp does. Loves himself a bit too much for my liking and if Ed02 is right he's been itching to leave for years. Thanks for the goals Mo but I won't miss him.

27 Apr 2024 16:31:01
100% behind Salah here, for such an easy going guy to have that reaction there is something seriously wrong at the club especially the way things are going at moment.

Hate to see Klopp reign ending like this, the club should have insisted he goes when he made it clear he wanted out.

27 Apr 2024 11:39:37
Great review ed1 have to say Klopp should
Of gone 2 years ago.

27 Apr 2024 12:12:05
I wonder after Klopp has left and is sitting somewhere quiet, reflecting on his time at Liverpool will he leap from his seat and shout „WAS ZUM TEUFEL HABE ICH GEMACHT, ALS ICH LIJNDERS ZUGEHORT HABE?! “ before he slumps back down in tears.
(what was I doing listening to Lijnders?! )

27 Apr 2024 12:37:14
What has Lijnders said to Klopp, polecat?
A quick Google about his Lijnders' tactics and I found this from 2023:

'We want to play with a lot of offensive aggression. You use that moment to attack again, because many times the opposition in this moment is not well organised. You want to play in the opposition half and stay there as long as possible, because it gives our front three the chance to express more often. '

It doesn't sound like someone wanting to play turgid football.

27 Apr 2024 13:00:12
Are you Ljinders? To think he isn't part of the problem is plain weird.

27 Apr 2024 13:14:10
Rigsby stop being an eye rolling contrarian.

Lijnders was taking credit for this inversted sh@te and talking about how he’d said to Klopp he was so confident it would work he’d bet his job on it.

We’ve just tried to copy was city do but a b&m bargains version of it.

27 Apr 2024 13:30:03
I'm not defending Lijnders; I'm asking what he said to Klopp.
Of course he's part of the problem because he's one of Klopp's assistants on the management team.
He's one of numerous reasons we are not as successful or playing as well as we have in the past. He's not the only reason and he doesn't have the overall say on the team and tactics, does he?
I don't know the workings of the management side and I'm asking what Lijnders said or did that made us stop playing heavy metal or high intensity football in the past two seasons?

27 Apr 2024 13:39:23
From a podcast he done. With the ball, Liverpool are now closer to a 3-4-3, with Alexander-Arnold playing alongside the defensive midfielder and Andy Robertson becoming a centre-back.

There remain flaws to the approach, as has been seen throughout pre-season and these early weeks of the new campaign, but its virtues were on show in an unbeaten end to 2022/ 23.

Speaking on the Training Ground Guru podcast, Lijnders revealed that it was his plan to change setup – and that he bet his salary on Alexander-Arnold’s role paying off!

27 Apr 2024 14:51:03
Thanks, Endo3 but that's not enough to put everything on Lijnders and it doesn't say he is telling Klopp to play boring, turgid football.
I'm not a fan of the right back drifting into midfield but the reasons we are not as good as were are far more wide reaching. The most obvious one for me is that we don't have the same players and the current ones are not of the same quality.
We have had the most shots of any team across the five top leagues in Europe. The conversion rate shows a lack of quality not attacking intent. We are also weaker defensively.
That said, Lijnders doesn't get a free pass as he is one of Klopp's assistants. They all have to take some responsibility for the squad rebuild and team selections and tactics.

27 Apr 2024 15:55:12
He basically says it was him. Look read what you want but that's from the horses mouth. You're just seeing what you want to see.

27 Apr 2024 16:01:08
We looked much more sound defensively with Gomez at left back and Bradley at right back.

27 Apr 2024 16:06:41
Before today’s game we had circa 80 more shots than the next team in Europe (Man City) . That tells me that the team is creating plenty of chances and giving the offensive players plenty of opportunity to score the goals required. The football isn’t as turgid as some would make out.

{Ed002's Note - Actually it means the players know where the stands are.}

27 Apr 2024 16:10:51
Rigsby, it is not Endo3 or Shaq Attack putting all this on Lijnders. It is Lijnders that is doing a bang up job of doing that all by his damn self, based on the information out there and the quotes you have posted. Just my take.

27 Apr 2024 16:40:54
He basically says what was him?
His plan to change the set up to play with an inverted full back?
Ok but is that the sole reason for us not being the same team and for us playing slow, boring football?
He had a plan- with flaws- but that doesn't mean it has to carried out.
Klopp or another assistant could have vetoed it.
Trent as an inverted full back was our most creative player against Everton and we could have scored three in the first half if the front three were in any sort of form.
I don't like the system when so many of the rest of the team don't like a challenge but it's about the best passer in the team having more influence on the game.
Maybe if the rest of the team had more influence on games we wouldn't have to tell the right back to play in midfield. We rebuilt the midfield so why didn't we buy a player to do what he's asked to do and let him stay at right back?

27 Apr 2024 16:47:46
I've posted one quote by Lijnders, Oli.
He talks about offensive aggression, playing in the opposition half for as long as possible and giving the front three the chance to express more often.
How on earth is he putting the playing of turgid football on himself?

27 Apr 2024 16:55:43
Linders book shocked me at the time and it still does. Leave that for when you've left, if at all. I'd have no interest in reading his book he's an assistant coach .

I've been thinking for a bit now that maybe all is not right in the camp but of course I have no idea. But what I do know is that it's been an amazing ride and I'm looking forward to the next era. King is dead sort of thing. at this point one more win, let's get it next week at home to Spurs and get top 4 in the bag.

As for players, I don't care who stays, who goes and who comes in. Just want players who want to be here. Trusting Slot and the club to get it right. Next season will be very challenging to make the top 4 and for me that and the 1/ 4s of the CL will be a great transition season.

27 Apr 2024 09:30:25
Ed001. It was hard reading that review and i think you held back a bit. I've found the last few weeks bizarre. Do you think lack of leadership has been a problem for us? I've just seen heads go down. I look at Klopp and he's sarcastically smiling or berating the 4th official, instead of leading his team.

I don't think we have enough characters in that team. Mane, Firmino, Hendo, Milner, Fabinho all had an element of that in how they played the game. I can't see any of them characters in this team.

It was no coincidence when the kids came in the team, that the older players had to lead and help them. Since they've been left out, we've reverted to type.

It's possible I'm over thinking.

{Ed001's Note - it is just what happens when a manager is going, once the wave of wanting to him for him runs out, then it becomes a struggle.}

27 Apr 2024 11:12:17
I think it was the Utd defeat which saw heads drop.

27 Apr 2024 11:30:53
100% hessle. Season over from that final whistle.

27 Apr 2024 07:39:02
{Ed's Note - Ed001 has posted a new article entitled, Everton v Liverpool - A Quick Liverpool Perspective

27 Apr 2024 08:06:49
This post perfectly echoes my feelings.

I think as a fan base and club we hang onto things for too long because we're sentimental

Houllier stayed a season longer than he should. So did Rafa. Torres and Gerrard both stayed about 6 months too long and now klopp. The one time the club were decisive was in sacking Brendan, we need to stop letting sunk cost determine our actions.

Had klopp gone two years ago he'd have gone out a hero and with everyone missing him. With time we still will but thanks to two years of awful football and little to no success everyone's feelings will be more of relief than anything.

I am not expecting the football to be anymore exciting under slot but we will probably win more. He has the same death by a thousand passes approach as guardiola which for me is very boring. If you watched city beat Brighton you'll know what I mean, never has 4-0 been so dull.

{Ed001's Note - I am with you on that, I find Guardiola's teams dull to watch.}

27 Apr 2024 08:21:35
Completely agree,

It feels sad and wrong to be questioning Klopp after the man brought the club out of the doldrums, but it is clear that he's lost his mojo.

One of the more frustrating things, is it is so obvious the tactics don't suit, and earlier we'd go back to the thing that worked, but now we just seem to plod on regardless.

you would hope that now the new man is more or less confirmed, the players sit up and put in the effort and play to impress, but we also need the tactics to suit them.

The way it is going at the moment I'm worried for losses at West Ham and Villa, a draw against spurs, and a cagey win over Wolves.

27 Apr 2024 08:25:21
Good read Ed1.

I can’t help but think a huge part of Klopp feeling exhausted is that if not for city (cheating or not? ) he would have won another 2 titles most likely.

It must be exasperating to get 94 and 97 points in two seasons only to lose the title in the last day by a point.

It’s true that watching Liverpool for the last couple of years has been a lot less enjoyable since we switched tactics. Even wining games, it’s rarely a truly enjoyable experience to watch (does that sound spoilt? ), hopefully you get what I mean.

I was devastated when Klopp announced his departure and have ended up looking forward to it as it’s so clearly time for a change (which funnily enough is also a bit devastating weirdly)

{Ed001's Note - thanks Shaq. I am looking forward to the future now, but I will miss Klopp.}

27 Apr 2024 08:46:40
Are people still talking about heavy metal football? Klopp used the term over ten years ago when he was Dortmund boss. I think it was a flippant remark comparing his style to Wenger's orchestra style.
What does the term actually mean? Has Klopp explained what he meant?
If I remember when we started to play a more "controlled" game- the word used by his assistant at the time- we won the League, CL, FA Cup and League Cup.
Too much is being made of a jokey throwaway comment made by Klopp when he was manager of another club, in another league over ten years ago.

{Ed001's Note - are you for real? Or just being deliberately obtuse? His assistant, I guess you are referring to motormouth Lijnders, was talking nonsense. We won the league etc by playing high intensity football, which is why his own book was entitled Intensity. It is the last couple of years that we have been more controlled and won f all.}

27 Apr 2024 08:49:40
Just reading the first couple of paragraphs is exactly how I feel as well Ed’s. We all adore Klopp and to say that am looking forward to a new manager feels like am betraying him but your right he should have gone when he felt the time was right and not get talked into it by the fans/ team or his wife. They say that you never stop learning and am sure Klopp has learnt from this experience. I still love the bloke am wish him all the very best in the future what ever that mite be. My only hope now is that we definitely finish in a champions league place. YNWA Klopp!

27 Apr 2024 09:38:40
Ed01, that was not a match review, mate. That was a full-blown autopsy of our season (if not a proper therapy session) and frankly if we are being honest, we knew this the whole time but as fans are allowed to be, we were in a great position so well, we just ran with it and who could blame us?

"He has brought so much joy that it is not that I begrudge him the money or wanting a break, I am annoyed that he stayed too long. Instead of dreading him going, I am now actually just looking forward to it all being over. It is a shame because it should not be that way after all he has achieved. It should be like when he left Dortmund and the BVB fans were just broken-hearted. Instead it is almost going to be a relief. "

Mate, that hurt. It hurt really bad to read that, man. Klopp's blindspots and loyalty to Lijnders has done us in for the second season running. I knew we were not a great team, for sure but I thought our mentality and desire to prove the doubters wrong was fueling us to the top and with players coming back, we would improve. As you said, we were top in spite of the tactics rather than because of them and many of us said that this inverted rubbish was a huge problem for starters.

Now, the bubble has burst and this has been coming. Scapegoating players is futile based on the current facts laid out at this point cos I ain't got the stomach for it. For now, the season is over for me so I look forward to the players finishing the season strong and giving Klopp the farewell and parade (if possible) he deserves cos in spite of all of his mistakes, he kept ALL his promises, even those I never heard him make. Klopp leaves us in a good position and the club in a much better place than he found it. That and MANY other things, will always be to his credit, IMO.

{Ed001's Note - that is a good point, he has left us in a much better place.}

27 Apr 2024 09:39:21
Can’t believe all this negativity being given out to klopp. Yes the style of play has changed but it is still a style of play that has had us creating enough chances to win games at a canter. Its hardly klopps fault that our forwards have been missing chance after chance the last two months, these are the same players who up until then had been putting the chances away. If we had scored some of the dozens of chances we create in games then we would not be having this conversation, we would be several points clear and giving klopp the farewell he deserves instead of this undeserved critism which is frankly a disgrace!

27 Apr 2024 09:48:52
Ed001, no, I'm talking about Peter Krawietz and the words he used after we won the League.
If you're talking about high intensity, that's another thing and Klopp himself has said himself that the "heavy metal" thing was a "joke". He also admitted to talking a lot "sh*t" when he was younger.
It may seem pedantic to bring it up but we have won something in the last couple of years.

{Ed001's Note - yes, we won something this season. I was being as obtuse as you. It is irrelevant what Klopp said, it has become the label applied to refer to the high-intensity football he brought with him.}

27 Apr 2024 10:09:04
Nice review ed, not harsh enough in my opinion.

I read something that terrified me yesterday. Apparently slot is closed friends and although he prefers a high line pressing approach similar to Ange, apparently more pressing than klopp.

The scary thing was he prefers a sideways possession game and dominating possession. Linders ball?

27 Apr 2024 10:12:35
Ed001, I suppose it is a weak label based on what Klopp has since said was a joke.
He did bring a high intensity brand of football with him but it evolved to a more controlled brand with more selective spells of high intensity and we won the CL and PL.
The season we won the League we had the best defensive record.

{Ed001's Note - I don't see the relevance in anything you are saying. You seem to be completely missing the point in your efforts to prove you are a superfan. The last two seasons have been dog muck and the intensity has vanished along with switching over to a tedious, turgid, controlled style of football. The only thing we have won, and that was a close run thing against an abysmal Chelsea side managed by a serial loser, was the League Cup. Not exactly a great return when you consider the way we flunked out of the FA Cup against an even worse Man Utd side.}

27 Apr 2024 10:16:08
This is what Peter Krawietz said, after we won the League, about us moving away from the so called heavy metal football, if anyone is interested:

Dominance and control, that’s what it’s about. It has always been in our approach to control football games in a dominant manner. That possibly distinguishes us from other teams. We try to dominate, even when we’re not in possession. Gegenpressing is not some wild chase after the ball, it’s predicated on a trigger, designed to minimise the opponent’s time on the ball. But the high individual quality of our players also allows us to control games in possession now, and to take up positions close to the ball, to be able to win it back again quickly if we do lose it.

Having more of the ball shouldn’t lead to you resting on the ball but it does look more… controlled. It allows you to move the opponent around. We’re not forced to go for goal in every move, we can take a more strategic line, switching the play, preparing spaces and attacking situations in a systematic fashion. Our team have made great strides in that respect, mostly due to their individual quality.

{Ed001's Note - what has this to do with anything? Krawietz is talking about what we wanted to see, not this dire Lijnders-ball we have ended up with over the last two seasons. Clearly you are too busy reading and not actually seeing.}

27 Apr 2024 10:18:14
Good read Ed1. People saying how dare fans questions Klopp. It comes more so out of frustration and sadness, not enjoyment. Well, at least it does for me. Sadness that we are seeing a legend go out in the manner that he is. Sadness that we don’t recognise who this version of him is anymore. Sadness that his mojo has completely gone. Sadness that he is making the same mistakes over and over and over again. And sadness that those fixable mistakes along with the players have cost us a number of trophies this season. Still a legend in my eyes for what he has achieved. But, he is not above the club and is not above criticism.

Like I said in a previous post. The man is human and not a machine. He told FSG in November that he was mentally exhausted. Either one of two things should have taken place at the point when he made them aware of his intentions to step down. One, he should have said he was leaving there and then. Two, FSG should have thanked him for his service and told him to leave as of immediate effect. The decision to stay on until the end of the season should never has been an option, and should have been taken out of Klopp’s hands. I maintain the stance that Both Klopp and FSG handled the situation completely wrong. An individual who is clearly mentally spent and is not fully focused has essentially been allowed to serve a 6 month notice period. And we are surprised it has seemingly filtered down to the players?

Personally it’s bittersweet for me. I will miss Klopp and will always remember the good times. He is a legend in my eyes, there are no two ways about it. I mean, the year we won the league and the 2/ 3 years before that when we ran City close, we were simply unstoppable. But we simply ain’t that team anymore and if we are having an honest conversation without emotions and sentiments, we haven’t been that team for some years now. And as the sayings go, nothing lasts forever and all good things must come to an end. Klopp’s time at Liverpool has run its course and I’m really looking forward to this summer’s squad refresh and the future under Arne Slot.

27 Apr 2024 10:46:09
That was meant to say close friends with Pep linders never had my glasses on. I hope we don't have to suffer more linders ball.

27 Apr 2024 11:05:56
Where is all the blame for Lijnders coming from? I'm not defending him so it's a genuine question.
I've not read his book, Intensity, and I don't know about his tactics but is he the reason we are playing slower, are more defensively fragile and can't finish?
Is there any evidence that he implemented a slower and more reckless brand of football?

27 Apr 2024 11:27:45
Klopp made two huge mistakes at Liverpool, listening to Lijnders and leaving a season too early. This team is mid rebuild and with a few more right additions could be a great team.

27 Apr 2024 11:38:04
What has Lijnders said to Klopp, polecat?

27 Apr 2024 10:50:48
Ed001, Peter Krawietz was talking about us winning the League in 2019/ 20. He was talking about how the season went, how we played and he doesn't mention heavy metal football.
I've got to admit that I haven't read the Lijnder's book- I must have been too busy seeing not reading 😉- so why was it called Intensity, if his ideas are to play in a completely different way?

{Ed001's Note - and why is what Krawietz relevant to any of this? He has never talked about at any time, why would you expect him to mention it? You are just not making any useful point. Like I said, deliberately obtuse trying to be a pedant about something that is utterly irrelevant. You are just hijacking a thread. I have wasted enough time, too much time, on you being a pain for the sake of it.

Why are you asking me? Lijnders is the man you need to ask, he wrote it. I am sure he will happily talk to you, just point a mic or camera at him and he will wax eloquent about how he is the kingpin of everything if you let him.}

27 Apr 2024 12:10:30
I agree with Ed01 in his reasons as to what we could have done to potentially play better this season and last in hindsight but I can't agree Klopp should have gone 2 years ago just after nearly wining the quadruple. Maybe end of last year he should have gone but this season has been amazing up to 2-3 weeks ago with an entirely new midfield and we have still been the 2nd or 3rd best team in the land. Also 5 March 2023 Liverpool 7 - 0 Manchester Utd wouldn't have happened. No manager will do things exactly as we think. Klopp is too stubborn but he has given us great success in his era. If he'd left 2 years ago who would have come in and won more games than Klopp? I think it will be better to reflect on the success of the Klopp era at the end of next season / next couple of seasons when we see what a new manager can get out of the same players. That's not to say I disgaree with what Ed01 has posted in his review. Klopp would have played Jota and Gakpo if he could have done in the Everton game, probably Bradley as well which may have been different tactics, energy and result.

{Ed001's Note - you make some good points. The reason I always thought for keeping him is simply that there was no one out there to replace him. As we saw this time around, there is still no genuine outstanding candidate. I mean to compare to Klopp. I would gladly have Klopp stay if he was going to be back to being the Klopp that first came in.}

27 Apr 2024 12:28:57
ED1 great review of the game n esp klopp. we all wanted the Klopp we know n love but he took a back seat n let others do more, when we all know their incapable of it . he let it slide but Love how the man took to the city fans etc . going to miss him but its gone stale. time for fresh ideas n hopefully players taking on board the new managers ideas.

27 Apr 2024 12:32:41
Another 12 months would risk tainting his legacy more if he made the same mistakes you rightly point out ed01 which when we are winning we forgive but when we are not appear obvious to everyone outside of Klopp and his team. Hopefully the new guy takes us onwards and upwards. A good performance now at West Ham will ease some pain.

27 Apr 2024 13:30:47
I wonder how much buvac leaving contributed. Buvac always struck me as a person who will disagree if he thinks you're wrong. Ljinders strikes me as the kind of person who doesn't do that so that he can gain favour.

Our style did noticeably change when buvac was swapped with ljinders in my opinion.

27 Apr 2024 14:56:14
But Klopp was listening to and agreeing with Lijnders, not the other way round, apparently.
I think you're clutching at straws, Nevada.

27 Apr 2024 15:08:24
@rigsby my point was has removing a dissenting voice had a negative effect?
Whether it's klopp being ljinders yes man or the other way around there is a lack of dissenting voices. Why else would keep persisting with a style of play is having negative effects?

I suppose the alternative is just that klopp and ljinders are a very limited coaching team who can't take us where we want to be.

Because you can't claim they're a great team of people that know how to solve problems when the team is playing badly and set up badly.

27 Apr 2024 16:27:07
Nevada, Buvac? You mean "Pep Lijnders" in terms of shooting his mouth off after Klopp sent him packing B4 Pep Lijnders himself? Had to use a time machine to remamber that bro. Buvac is irrelevant here. Keep it moving.