03 Feb 2016 15:01:32
My two penneth:
One of the most futile, soul destroying exercises is to look at where you want to be and compare it to where you are. We want to win the league, we are 16 points off it with over a third of the season left.
Alternatively try looking at where we were when Klopp arrived and where we are heading:
We were struggling in the league, we hadn't won a trophy for over 3 years. We'd beaten mighty Colchester on penalties. We were playing with no enthusiasm or creativity, we had lost our captain, Lucas and Sakho were isolated, most of our youngsters were on loan, some of our youngsters were in dispute with the club.
So what has Kloppo done for us?
Well we've had some incredible results and some poor results in the league. We're in the final of the league cup. We topped our Europa league group. Lucas is back and has more MOM performances than anyone. Sakho has signed a new contract and is back. We've had some bad luck with injuries. Smith is back in the fold and has a new contract. The youngsters are getting their chance in the FA cup. We've signed Grujic. Lallana looks rejuvenated. Joe Allen looks like a new player. Can has been assigned a position rather than 1 game defender followed by 1 game midfielder. Lovren looks more confident but still prone to lapses.
I don't really understand why people can't see any positive changes. We were all crying for the young players to be given a chance, they have been. We were struggling in the Europa, we topped the group. We are 1 final away from a trophy. Players are improving - the evidence is there.
Real change takes time but is best achieved by incremental improvements. This is what we are doing but there is so much more to achieve.
With respect to January I don't believe it was the optimum time to bring players in and it is best to wait for the summer.
We as fans have an obligation too. We need to change the atmosphere at Anfield. Somehow we need to capture the party atmosphere and get the noise going.
03 Feb 2016 15:10:21
Agree apart from rejuvenated lallana.
03 Feb 2016 15:12:20
Good post ron
The trouble is most people where expecting klopp to come in and win us the league.
We are as you have said in a damn better position than we were with Rodgers.
03 Feb 2016 15:39:39
Agree with almost all of this Ron, we're miles ahead of where we were before Klopp came in in terms of setting a future direction and establishing a more dangerous (and attractive) style of play.
Even if the occasional performance has been a bit disappointing, we've had some great games too, and most of the time we've lost it's been because we haven't taken our chances rather than because we haven't created any (last night a bit of an exception however) .
I'm a bit disappointed by a couple of recent team selections though as we seem to have lost a bit of spark, however hopefully Sturridge, Coutinho, Origi returning will help inject a bit of pace and verve into the side after a gruelling run of games.
03 Feb 2016 15:40:02
If we win the league cup it is a nice start. if we don't, then in terms of performance and results we are not really better off from where we were last year. Of course, unrealistic to expect big changes during the season as you say, but most people didn't write off this season so are still dissapointed when we look so bad and can't score goals. All the other things you mentioned are quite meaningless if they don't affect performances and results and they don't. If next year this time we will be in the same position in the league no one will care if Lucas and Allen improved further, Sakho signed a new contract and the youngsters get more chances.
03 Feb 2016 15:54:59
Good post. I agree about Lallana, he looks better then under Rodgers, would expect more goals looking at his record the season before we signed him. He has had off ineffective games, but who hasn't?
We are on a better path, we have a better manager and staff then before. It's not over yet, but I'm more looking forward to next season then this one. Maybe the cups will change that of course, but league and squad wise, I can't wait for a full season under Klopp.
03 Feb 2016 15:56:41
Same as Fencey, but some of the guys in attacking positions are not looking anywhere near scoring a goal never mind several. This is klopps challenge for the summer.
03 Feb 2016 15:58:03
Nice to see a decent post Ron. Do read some inpatient posts from fans.
As been said by the Ed's on numerous occasions, the players are getting fitter to adapt to Klopps style of play. From pre-season there fitness levels were set to be a possession side.
The players are adapting to new ideas. New training drills.
Our two best options at the time of being manager less were Klopp and Ancelotti. I do believe that in the long run we made the right choice. This season we was never going to be title contenders (as desperate as I am for us to be) . Just not going to happen. Wrong players bought and injuries sustained throughout the season it was to much of a task.
A big percentage of the squad will have better knowledge of requirements next season and after a full pre-season and preparation for next season and I hope a decent recruitment of players in the summer we can push on and start to climb the table. Look at Spurs and the benefits of them having last season and a pre-season. That is where I hope us for us to be. Within top four contention with the possibility of a title contender.
It really is a case of walking before running.
We have a cup final. Let's enjoy that as its been a while. Still the chance of another two finals to be reached. Come on guys. Support the club we love. We're all in this together
YNWA.
03 Feb 2016 15:58:35
Klopp was always going to struggle to get rid of the mid-table mentality instilled by Rogers along with the methods and recruitment.
No way should he be judged until at the least the end of next season.
Some people are moaning about some selections, but it's not like he has a fit Sturridge, but is keeping him on the bench to either play Beneteke or no striker at all.
The same with the likes of Lucas, Milner etc. There isn't a bench of world class players that he is ignoring to select these players.
This is the result of what Rogers thought was good enough for Liverpool.
Yes some of them are or will be (good enough), but unfortunately there's quite an overhaul needed (yet again) . However, I trust the man now in charge to get the recruitment side of things right.
How many of our top 15 or so players do you think will still be here after Klopp has had 2-3 more transfer windows?
Can, Firmino, Countinho, Henderson and maybe Sturridge if he ever gets fit and playing week after week.
The rest. I think they are all either playing for the futures' or their fate has already been decided.
There could be a few that are borderline, but I wouldn't have thought there are many.
Then we come to the problem in that we have paid top class money for all/ most of these players and will be lucky to recoup 50% back on a lot of them.
All this at a time, when we are close to FFP sanctions, the club are still losing money and we are getting further and further away from regular champions league qualification.
03 Feb 2016 16:18:10
Ron,
The problem is that looking where we're going is a dangerous game, when Klopp arrived we were full of optimism and now we're giving up on the season, that's not a positive thing. Where are we heading? If things don't pick up we're in danger of having our worst league season ever. Lucas and Sakho? they're going backwards. Youngsters? They're not being given a chance, none have been used in priority games, they've just been played in the FA cup to give the first team a rest. City was amazing but we haven't won a league game by more than a single goal since. Cup runs? with the exception of one glorious game we've just about squeezed through.
Say things will be better when are players are at full fitness, say we'll be better next season, say we'll be better when Klopp gets the players he deserves but don't try to sugarcoat what's going on now because it hasn't been good.
03 Feb 2016 16:27:54
I do love Klopp, but I don't think we've performed any better under him than with Rodgers. Maybe in a few games, but overall, not really.
Obviously nice to reach a final, but it was done rather unconvincingly.
Our youth has played in our cup games, which rodgers would have done with the congested fixture list.
I really don't think we should be hailing Klopp as the saviour right now. He's brought some personality to the club but he hasn't achieved anything yet. Last year with this same team Rodgers took us on a 13 game unbeaten streak and we still were all over him. If klopp were to do that everyone on this site would be praising him as the next messiah.
Give Klopp time to put his touch on the squad, but stop looking at things with this view that everything he touches is magnificent, because our performance over the past month have been far from that.
03 Feb 2016 16:55:48
Very very balanced and sensible post.
Agree completely.
Yes Klopp is good mainly because he says as it is. We were all irritated with Brendan mainly bcoz of his post match interviews where he kept on repeating abt character.
However there are diff ways of motivating and pobably he choose to be positive always which upset all us fans.
But we can't discount the fact of the best season under any Liverpool manager in the recent past and also the 13 match unbeaten run.
Yes Klopp needs time and his prefered players but this style gegen pressing might not work in the long run.
At the end of the day players are humans and will tire out sooner or later because of relentless pressing.
I wish we beat M City and win one cup for a change after so long.
03 Feb 2016 17:00:47
@ musctetred.
The optimism is for beyond this season, and rightly so. It isn't and has never been a case of writing off this season, but a realisation and understanding that our team's fitness levels are way off, a new managers ideas take time to implement, especially when they join during a season, and finally that the squad is still Rodgers squad.
I disagree about sakho and Lucas. I especially disagree about the youngsters. Tell me, what premier league manager would play loads of kids in "priority"games.
03 Feb 2016 17:24:46
"Sakho is back", "Lovern looks better" Lucas is back, more Mom's than anyone" "Joe Allen looks like a new player" "Lallana rejuvenated" Can assigned a position". So many positives! The premier league results are worse Ron. 22 points from 16 games. Have we conceded less goals? I have to say i expected more and i still think in the long run hopefully but i don't think trying to paint pretty pictures is the way to go. Our PL performances have been far from good. The results don't lie Ron.
03 Feb 2016 17:27:31
Nice post Ron, and I agree with most of what you've said.
Also agree with slowdog, especially on the youngsters bit. If Brendan had still been here, those youngsters wouldn't have got a look in in any game, whereas with Klopp, some of them are staking a claim to competing with the more senior players in the EPL starting 11 - especially Smith and Texiera.
It is a season of coulda, woulda, shoulda in terms of the league. If we just had a fit and firing striker for those games when we created a bucket full of chances but didn't put them away, we woulda been at least 10 if not more points better off, and right in the mix.
Its the honesty and passion of the man that has grabbed me. If we haven't progressed next year, I will literally eat my hat! And its not a case of having to rebuild completely and be in transition, we are a handful of positions away from being seriously competitive - imo, goalkeeper, CB (as long as Smith continues his development and Flanno continues his rehab), DM (to provide competition for Lucas and an upgrade on an already excellent player) and a striker. We don;t necessarily have to buy these players, but instead look firstly to our injury list (striker, for example, could easily come from Origi, Ings and Studge) and then to our younger players who are getting a sniff of the important games through the cups.
Its almost like a checkbox exercise to go through the various factors required to provide a succesful team. Despite 13/ 14, the checkbox for "top class manager" had not been ticked. Now, I believe it has. And that will help with so many other things, not least quality player recruitment. We don;t need quantity, we need "qwality"!
03 Feb 2016 17:48:52
Hey Slowdog, I'm not against optimism for next season, I share it. I just don't like all the excuses for this season. Call a spade a spade, Klopp's had a rough start and that's fine, just don't pretend it's anything else.
03 Feb 2016 17:50:20
I completely agree apart from a few points.
I reckon klopp has done a good job and has shown evidence of this, as you have suggested, is actually much better than under rodgers, even if results don't show it.
But like i said earlier, and i have seen ed001 say, he is busting his balls trying to get the best out of this current group of players and they are giving him nothing back, his hands are tied right now hy his mandate and by time scale - he is still suffering from the mistakes of the rodgers regime, badly.
03 Feb 2016 18:54:44
Completely agree muscatred. Optimism for next year, but be honest with the disappointment of this season.
03 Feb 2016 19:01:11
Sorry, but this team is shabite.
The manager hasn't learned that his system isn't working, and needs to change it.
He should also learn that we have to start winning ugly to achieve anything.
Klopp will succeed, but it's not all about the players.
03 Feb 2016 19:54:54
Great debate. Makes me laugh though when people keep going on about some great results! We beat city and a very out of sorts Chelsea. big deal. Good results but it's still only 3 points for a win. We have been woeful in most games and our league record is atrocious. We just cannot score! Ravaged by injuries up front granted and hopefully studge will come back into the team and make that difference but we are awful to watch and very frustrating. I do believe in klopp but he has got to adjust and implement a different style. Fingers crossed our forwards get fit!
03 Feb 2016 20:12:58
Southampton 1-6 was also a great result.
I think the thing is with results is its too short-term thinking.
You have to build the foundations first then expect the results. You don't plant a seed, wait a week and then dig it up because there's no flower.
He's building fitness levels, he's integrating the youth, he's building team spirit, he's increasing confidence.
But it's one step at a time and don't expect a consistent challenge for the league yet, it's too soon.
03 Feb 2016 22:56:31
Ron, I love your post. This season was always going to be a roller coaster under Klopp and indeed when he arrived, we had a chance to really get going. But we lost to Watford, Newcastle, and the lot with some dreadful performances to boot. That is what has dampened the morale of some fans and I get that. But to say, we would have made a final, whipped City, Southampton and even Chelsea (after going a goal down), topped our EL group, given kids a chance to the point of calling for them to step in because some of the senior players aren't playing well, Allen becoming a new player, and the lot with the way we were playing under BR, is just dishonest and wrong. NONE of that would have happened. Sahko and Lucas would be gone and All we would get was excuses, excuses, and more excuses because that's all BR had become good for. Glad he's gone and in spite of his stupid clinger type comments in the media, I'm happy to give Klopp as much time as he got. Fort hose making a case for BR, go support him at his next job in China or at Osasuna and leave Klopp and the rest of us alone.