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04 Nov 2019 09:38:19
eds - just regards Mane's yellow card for diving at the weekend. Can you clarify how they give these cards out? I thought it was for when a player simulates contact (i. e., dive) but is it more just to do with any instance of play-acting / exaggerating contact?

The replay showed clear contact, but just wondering what the framework is for judging simulation. thanks in advance!

{Ed001's Note - it is for simulation, so it can be for exaggerating contact or play-acting, just as much as for simulating contact. It is the down to the referee's interpretation.}

Agree1 Disagree0

04 Nov 2019 09:52:41
ah k thanks ed1
must be a hard one to get consistent aye.

{Ed001's Note - I am not sure they are trying to be consistent.}

04 Nov 2019 10:37:44
then how in the world does Harry Kane not get booked every week?

{Ed001's Note - because he is English and that means it is clever play when he cheats. You must never have heard a pundit explain it.}

04 Nov 2019 11:25:28
It’s ridiculous to be honest - I’m not saying there’s any conspiracy theory as it’s gone for us as well as against, but Ed you’re exactly right that Kane trailed a leg to force contact against and win a penalty then went down easily and was hailed as ‘smart’, likewise Lamela went down easily against VVD and people said ‘why give him a chance to go down’ like it was the defenders fault.

It needs to be consistent whether either
1) any contact = a penalty or whether
2) regardless of contact the issue is all about if there was simulation

At the moment strikers also are also incentivised to go down on any contact because otherwise it’s too easy for the referee to play on. When Salah had arms wrapped around his neck on the weekend and didn’t go down, nothing was blown. What would have happened had he gone down? At least a VAR review.

04 Nov 2019 11:54:19
It's a no win situation a complete farce and the VAR ref should be sacked or maybe a post game card system for the VAR refs or some sort of penalty for ridiculous decisions for clear and obvious errors as they have technology and time and are not making split second decisions on the pitch.

04 Nov 2019 12:21:10
You're right Ed. I'll try to pay better attention in the future. The rules are really hard to follow.

{Ed001's Note - and you wonder why the refs keep getting them so wrong!}

04 Nov 2019 12:33:58
So VAR was double-checking the referees call on simulation NOT whether or not it was a penalty? Im guessing they slowed down Mane’s facial expression a few dozen times and micro-analysed the trajectory of his fall before backing the refs decision.
Meanwhile, the defender stepped on Sadios foot causing a tumble which should have been a penalty but because the ref couldn't see that in real time, VAR cannot call the foul?
I wish i could say this a little more eloquently but the way VAR is currently set up is utter b0ll0cks.

04 Nov 2019 16:42:44
Against Liverpool Kane went down under a challenge from lovren holding his face right in front of the linesman. The replay showed Lovren's hand touched his shoulder, nowhere near his face! Incidents like that are never mentioned and free-kicks or penalties dubiously won are called 'clever play' - others are called divers and cheats.

04 Nov 2019 17:17:52
Agree that VAR is a farce. However the whole situation around fouls and diving is a farce.

There is an argument that players should go down when touched to force the referee to make a decision because they are otherwise reluctant to give penalties on fouls where the player stayed on his feet. But that lends the players to over elaborate their falls, and hence the farce caused by Richarlison, Son, Mane and Salah with their over elaborate falls.

This is essentially a problem of ethics, and when there is an ethical dilemma, it's best to revert to the higher form of ethics and criticise people for their deception or ineptitude and it is important to not justify one wrong with another. So at this stage I feel it is best that we unashamedly bash cheats and dramatic divers as well as referees who don't give fouls when the player made an honest attempt to stay on his feet. Also we should not get tribal and justify Mane's pathetic fall with what Kane or Lamela or Dele Alli did 2 seasons ago.

Trust is the most important part of the society and we cannot accept cheating for tribal reasons. But it should be said that it's the referees who were first to violate the trust because of the lack of transparency in their decision making and dubious explanations. We need somebody with some balls at the head of the refereeing associations to come out and appeal to the footballing fraternity that trust needs to be rebuilt from all sides: from referees in their transparency, from players in their theatrics, and from fans and pundits in their criticism about immoral or inept behaviour.

04 Nov 2019 19:26:47
For years referees have failed to give fouls/ penalties when the player stays on his feet. And that is why they go down easily. A foul is a foul. And a foul in the penalty area is a penalty.
Players go down to make sure that they get one.

04 Nov 2019 19:27:33
Stone, it is simple. English pundits see English players as sacred lambs who cannot nor must not be held accountable for their actions. When Kane/ Sterling, Alli etc cheat, they are actually hailed as clever players. When foreign players are clearly fouled and decisions not given, they literally blame the victim.

Kane dives the moment you do as much as just look in his direction and his acolytes will call it smart/ clever play. When Origi is clearly fouled by Lindelof and went down, they said "He was looking for it" or "He had lost his touch so was trying to con the ref" hence, blame the victim. Go figure.

04 Nov 2019 23:43:23
Reds VAR works perfect it is the gobrubbish who is watching the screen bobbies goal VAR showed onside the person in the room said his arm pit offside the system is right the so called ref is wrong but saying that the ref in question is known to do something to out shine the footballers as I said a go rubbish.

05 Nov 2019 10:12:33
Why do we not complain so much about players claiming for a throw when they’ve clearly just kicked it out themselves? It’s cheating yet goes unpunished and unmentioned. Pulling of shirts, blocking and grabbing at set pieces. Cheating yet widely accepted and very rarely punished. Time wasting, foul throws, Fernandinho fouls (other know as professional fouls), these are all cheating yet don’t get mentioned much yet someone goes down too easily and we go mad! Why?



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