Liverpool banter 10

20 May 2024 19:34:09
I'm having trouble replying to threads. With regards to the debate on Trent moving to midfield on the basis that he'd be better than Mac Allister. Dear oh dear. Not in my opinion. To suggest a world cup winner, who is top quality in an advanced midfield role and not a number 6, can be replaced by someone who has the occasional dabble, is foolhardy. With all due respect.

And, like I've said many times on here, I don't think Elliott will ever be more than a good squad player.

20 May 2024 21:27:17
You on an older Samsung by any chance? I was having all sorts of problems replying to posts on my old J6. The text used to lag as I was typing and then jump and add in whole paragraphs. Sometimes it just completely crashed my Chrome tab. Resorted to typing my replies up in another app and then pasting them in. Not having any issues on the new iPhone using Safari though tbf.

20 May 2024 22:04:55
Good squad players got us to a title win. Hendo wasn't more than a good squad player. To imply a squad player is less than a "world class" player I think is a little naive.

21 May 2024 00:39:15
So Eddy, I’ll take it a bit further. Some squad players help keep the dressing room humming as well. Whether it’s an older player, local lad, solid player or a natural leader the most successful teams are able to maintain that over prolonged periods of time.

21 May 2024 11:38:01
In fairness to Elliott Rome, I'd imagine he's a lot further along in his career than McAllister was at that age. Not saying Elliotts as good because Macca is top class but for his age Elliott has already achieved a lot. Odegaard for example at the same age was off on loan at Sociedad not pulling up any trees. Elliotts form this season has been very good for the majority of games.

21 May 2024 14:35:40
That's a good comparison, June, with Odegaard. Listen, I hope you're right about Elliott and he starts every game next season. I love it when our players prove me wrong for the better.

21 May 2024 18:32:21
I wouldn’t say Elliott has been very good for the majority of games but he has had very good moments but you’re correct. He’s still a young lad and I certainly wouldn’t be giving up on him. Just a little more consistency needed.

21 May 2024 19:06:40
Irish Rover, I've always found that playmakers like Elliott will always be based on moments. I'm probably in the minority in thinking that. But a player like Dirk can run himself ragged for a whole game and nobody bats an eyelid but then Stevie blasts one in or plays an inch perfect pass to set up a goal while being largely anonymous all game and that's what everyone remembers. I'm not saying one thing is better than the other but it's the sum of all parts. Elliott for me is a number 10 . The greats in that position, like Baggio, Bergkamp and people of that ilk never played well for 90 mins every game. But when they came alive they where the match winners. Elliott reminds me of Baggio with his touch and control, and Baggio at his best wasn't the quickest even though he was lightening when he first arrived on the scene. Get him in regularly behind a goal scorer and I think he will be the one to unlock the defences we need.

22 May 2024 00:11:00
I like Harvey Elliot, but Baggio was on another level.

20 May 2024 19:03:50
Welcome to Liverpool Arne Slot. YNWA!

20 May 2024 21:56:09
Arne Slot, NA NA NA NA NA.

20 May 2024 18:44:13
Trent is our best long ball player and maca is our best ball player along with Thiago.

20 May 2024 19:33:58
Is Thiago our best player or was he our best player?

20 May 2024 21:31:34
Thiago is the footballer version of Schrödingers Cat. He is a world class footballer but if you try to observe evidence to prove it, he will break down and become useless. Quantum physicists will spend years trying to unlock the secret that is Thiago Alcantara.

20 May 2024 21:41:21
Thiago was never fit enough to better than anyone we never seen the best of the man.

21 May 2024 02:54:16
That’s doing my head in @iwll. How can TAA be our best (long) ball player if Macca and Thiago are (was in Thiago’s case) our best ball players? Only one can be the best, by definition. Not having a go - like I say just can’t cope with the idea that three of them are the best.

21 May 2024 06:47:30
I think the answer to your reply West Derby Wanderer 3 Trent is brilliant at passing long balls which are usually counter attacking long passes over 40 yards ( old school I know) Where as Macca and Thiago pass short decisive balls through the lines making openings for the forwards to run onto so that is why i said Trent best long ball passer and other two better short passers.

Also when Trent passes a long pass on most occasions it is not to create a goal scoring opportunity it is to switch play from right to left to start an attack but the goal scoring chance are usually made by Macca or Thiago when he was fit .
I hope that covers my former post West Derby . YNWA.

21 May 2024 12:26:30
West Derby Wanderer3, that initial post is still doing my head in.

24 May 2024 11:44:26
not sure Thiago created that much and had that many assists. Lovely talented footballer but not as affective as you think. Just a shame he was in the Sick bay rather than on the pitch. As i don't think we saw the best of him and he can't be considered the best at anything on the pitch.

20 May 2024 13:15:47
Ed001, do you think Harvey can be a permanent in our first 11, or an excellent squad guy? I think next year is important with Ed002 mentioning the club are worried about Mac Allister leaving in 2025.

{Ed001's Note - I expect Harvey to step up and become a first team fixture. Not sure why Macca leaving would be a worry when Trent can do what he does but better.}

20 May 2024 16:46:44
Macca has been player of the season for me. I’d hate for him to leave.

20 May 2024 15:45:52
Thanks Ed. Who would your preferred midfield be moving forward? I just pray Trent is finally moved in there. I think that would take us to the next level.

{Ed001's Note - Trent and Endo/Bajcetic if it is the way Slot played at Feyenoord with a double pivot. Macca ahead of them.}

20 May 2024 16:32:54
Completely disagree with eds post. Macallister is a massive player for us and trent is nowhere near what mac is as a midfielder.

{Ed001's Note - Macca had a good few weeks but was god awful for large parts of the season, so not sure how he can be 'massive' compared to Trent. You have no idea what Trent is like as a midfielder to suggest he is nowhere near Macca.}

20 May 2024 17:13:57
I love Macca I think he’s a world class midfielder.

Trent’s a great wing back.

20 May 2024 17:25:43
Hate to say it because he tries hard but Harvey shouldn’t be near the first 11 if we want to win league/ champs. He’s a squad player at best - as much as he develops he will never have the speed or physicality to be truly world class. He also doesn’t have the skill etc of someone like Silva to make up for it.

Macca is our best midfielder - was only bad when played as a 6. Irreplaceable imo but 100% would give Trent the 8 role and buy a destroyer to compete with Baj. Midfield then sorted just need a CB, RW and CF to challenge on all fronts.

20 May 2024 17:36:56
That's the point. He's not a midfielder so to suggest he'd be better at macca in a position he's completely unfamiliar with is nuts (respectfully ed) . It's been over complicated with trent. We have a terrific attacking right back, it's quite simple. Let him flourish and get him to keep improving especially defensively and we'll have an all time great right back. Move him to midfield and when the opposition have the ball it'll be like having 1 less midfielder. Trents flaws would be badly exposed in midfield. Macallister was brilliant when he hit form. Sobosli has been far worse for a lot longer. There was a lot of matches this season where a lot of players were poor but we got the result. It'll be interesting under slot how we play and hopefully improve.

20 May 2024 18:20:42
As long as Trent doesn’t play at right back anymore unless we are playing 3 CB’s with wingbacks, I’ll be happy. That has to be the first priority. Second priority is not playing Macca as a 6. I can live with pretty much everything else, even no signings if those 2 things leave with Klopp.

20 May 2024 18:41:36
Elliott is 21 years old and finished the season with 4 goals and 11 assists. Incredibly harsh to suggest he is only ever going to be a squad player. I think he had arguably just made himself first choice, so the end of the season has come at the worst time for him. It felt like every time he went on the pitch the last 6-8 weeks he’d either score or create a goal.

20 May 2024 18:23:47
I would say that Harvey and Trent are the most creative players we have and both should be playing week in week out.

20 May 2024 18:34:52
Normally agree with you Ed01 but you are being pretty unfair on MacAllister.

{Ed001's Note - why? I like him but he was extremely poor in the first half of the season. He has not yet made himself massive for the club, though he has earnt a starting spot.}

20 May 2024 18:55:40
My thoughts. Elliot looks like a number 10 to me playing out of position. Until he’s used there we will never try Ely know how good he is

Trent is a generational talent with an amazing passing range who at any minute can down tools on the entire season and walk around without a care in the world.

20 May 2024 19:11:48
Elliott will be pivotal for Slot in my opinion as Slot’s teams seem to use quick 1-2’s to break through the lines and Elliott is a very technical player.

I think he’s going to start a lot of games.

20 May 2024 19:14:21
Agree with NicolBecker. Elliott and Trent have exceptional delivery into the box. Macca can thread an eye of the needle pass or dink a cheeky one over the top, but Trent and Elliott have that whipped pass/ cross in the locker that puts defenders under the kind of pressure they hate. All 3 should start in my opinion. Don’t care where or how, that’s for Slot to figure out. The more playmakers the better.

Have to mention Salah and Nunez though by the way. They just seem to create a multitude of goals without even looking creative, and sometimes actually seeming greedy. But they rack up the numbers in the assist column so they’re doing something right. Salah’s outside of the boot pass/ cross is lethal and Nunez just seems to pick people out somehow!

20 May 2024 19:16:40
MIZER I get what your saying, and there are lots that agree with you but I'm with Ed on this one. If Trent is that bad at defending, then surely he shouldn't be in defensive line. Id be all for him being in the double pivot and pushing forward in possession and dropping back when defending. Doubt it will happen though as unfortunately Slot likes his inverted fullbacks apparently, which I think is a real shame and massive mistake to continue with that system. Really hope it doesn't happen.

20 May 2024 19:42:04
Trent isn't bad at defending as that is a myth. What he has issues with is being aggressive in moments which makes it look like he cannot defending. Whenever he has had to defend and is switched on fully, he is very good and besides, Klopp did not ask Trent to be a stalwart defensively cos well, that has never been his game cos he is a no. 8/ 10, fro heaven's sake. Why we talk about him like actual defensive FB's is beyond me but whatever.

As for the Macca and Trent debate, we all know DM was not Macca's role so I disagree with Ed01 here. We all saw what the guy was abojut after Hendo got up to speed and he clearly got better. Is he massive? Nope, he is not. At leaset, not yet. I agree with Ed01 there.

For me whether Trent can play in midfield, we will STILL have to see the evidence on the pitch. The proof will be in the pudding at that point.

20 May 2024 19:13:40
Ed 001, where do you see Szobo fitting in?

{Ed001's Note - if Slot is playing the system he used at Feyenoord, I expect him to play as one of the two behind the main forward. That is a position he has played frequently in the past, for club and country.}

20 May 2024 19:59:33
Ed01 - I just disagree that he was poor, he had some poor games but not a poor half of the season.

{Ed001's Note - until Endo nailed down the place, he was awful in the deeper role. I think you are forgetting just how bad he was.}

20 May 2024 20:10:33
I thought Mac had a very good season at a new club and he was asked to be played out of position for a large part of it which he did with no fuss.

Over the course of this season he recorded twice the most tackles by a LFC player In a premier league game with 8 v Chelsea and 9 v Bournemouth over the last 3 seasons.

He also finished the season with 7 goals and 7 assists which is pretty impressive as he played half the season as Dm.

I’m not sure how many of our midfielders over the years have hit those kind of numbers.

20 May 2024 21:29:14
I think that is where we will get the best out of Szobo, also means we don't need to buy a replacement if any of the front 3 were to leave.

20 May 2024 22:32:40
I think Macca got better as the season wore on although the odd worldie here and there eased the closer inspection of some of his shall we say quieter games.

As I said mid-season he got better when Endo stepped up.

No doubt that he is a very good player but he’s not world class at least not yet) .

If we do play a 4 - 2 - 3 - 1 then I’d have him in the middle of the 3 with Diaz on the left and Mo on the right. I’d also have TAA as one of the 2 with either the new DM we are going to sign (or so they say), Baj (if he fulfil the potential he has) or Endo.

20 May 2024 22:47:54
Judging from slots tactics Trent will be staying at rb inverting, I think if we sign pacho he will be left back and play like gvardoil ake at city making a back 3 while Trent sits in midfield not sure where that leaves Robertson.

20 May 2024 23:52:07
It doesn’t make any odds to me. New manager new tactics new favoured players for systems/ positions. As for the Macca debate I think the team wouldn’t miss him provided everyone else was fit.

21 May 2024 05:47:41
ed1 - Trent as part of a double pivot would be perfect. I think the key would be partnering with an Endo, or basically just a natural 6.
I think that could really unlock Trent as it'd give him the time to pick out a pass, play deep and as much as people say he can't defend, it would put him in a position where he can defend fro ma position of strength as oppossed to starting in a position which exposes his weaknesses as a defender. Specifically, he can track back, chase, press, use his passion as an all action midfielder to defend. Whereas as a RB and 1 on 1 defending puts him on the backfoot. Time for him to play the position that will bring the best out of his strengths and then we will see an improvement in his supposed weakensses.

Regards Trent vs Macca, we've not really seen Trent as an 8/ 10 so hard to say who'd be better. I'd give it to Macca cos he has been fantastic playing as a CM as oppossed to CDM.

21 May 2024 05:28:19
In fairness Macca played the first 14 games at Dm and we were 2nd just 2 points off Arsenal at the top.

If it hadn’t have been for the Spurs decision then we could very well have been top.

21 May 2024 07:10:15
My 11 year old daughter can even see Macca is poor at times. Doesn't check the space behind him, awareness is poor at times, too many touches and gets caught in possession too may times. There's a lot better out there and I believe with the right coach, Trent has better attributes to play there.

21 May 2024 09:13:27
Fact of the matter is that we haven’t adequately replaced Fabinho and until we do we won’t be winning the league anytime soon. The answer to this does not lie within the existing squad unfortunately, Endo is a useful fill in, Bajcetic is inexperienced and just coming back from a horrific long term injury, Mac isn’t and never will be a number 6 and neither is TAA.

{Ed001's Note - exceot Slot doesn't play that way, so it is irrelevant.}

21 May 2024 12:28:10
not a bad shout there, @Simply reddd.

21 May 2024 10:02:15
Macca had some really great games to the point where he looked undroppable but he was awful for the last part of the season. At fault for 3 goals against Villa for example.

There’s potential there and I hope we keep him but to say he’s massive for us is a huge stretch.

20 May 2024
New image uploaded to the
Liverpool Player Sightings page entitled,

Click picture for larger image

20 May 2024 15:17:04
I believe the kids call that "getting rekt".

20 May 2024 15:39:30
23 % definitely united city n Everton fans.

20 May 2024 19:43:35
There is nothing really offensive about this, if you are a City fan. I mean, you ain't THAT club and the nos. show that. It is what it is. Read it and weep.

20 May 2024 22:33:59
Money vs Passion. At heart, Passion always wins with genuine football fans.

20 May 2024 13:21:46
I would not be surprised to see us use natural CB's at full back next season under Slot. Arsenal do with White/ Timber and City do with Gvardiol/ Ake/ Akanji. Even Walker is very happy to sit back and actually played in a back 3 for England for several years due to his unadventurous style. I've often said on here that it is the key difference why it works for them and not us.

When a defender steps out to give you the numerical advantage in the midfield it leaves you short/ narrow at the back and City and Arsenal both get around this lack of defensive width by having more defensively solid (or just less adventurous) players in at least one of the full back positions, allowing them to seamlessly morph into a back 3 at times but also let especially Gvadriol or White push on as well in the right moments.

I'd not be at all surprised to see players like Konate, Quansah, Sepp VdB if he returns, Gomez if he stays, Pacho if he signs etc starting at right/ left back. I just don't think you can have Trent moving into midfield AND Robertson bombing on past Diaz every time. It left Virgil and Matip/ Konate far too much to do as they were having to try and get across to cover right back whilst also hoping Robbo could track back quicker than their winger could break forward (which he's been struggling with more and more as he ages) .

The year we won the league with Trent and Robbo both bombing on we had Virgil and Gomez both pre-knee-injury and they were absolute speed demons who could cover the whole width of the pitch very well even if Trent and Robbo were slow to track back. At times you could even leave them 2 vs 3 and Virgil was good enough to make it work. However Trent also going high and wide pushed back their wingers on both sides so Gomez and Virgil had more protection as long as Robbo and Trent followed their wingers back. Trent going into midfield doesn't drag the winger back with him, so poor Konate/ Matip have been having to stand up left wingers on the regular and try and the defend the middle of the pitch also.

I think using CB's at full back more often is the next step in the evolution of our team if Slot wants to bring his inverted full back style over with him. Time may totally prove me wrong, but it's where I personally see the gap in the system as we have deployed it.

20 May 2024 14:12:25
Whilst I don;t completely disagree I do think that it far more complicated than that.

At our peak, Trent and Robbo pretty much played as wingers leaving our 2 CB as the only defenders and we had a fantastic defensive record. This wasn't just down to their pace, there were several other factors:

1. We kept the ball far better. We didn't give up possession easily like we do now with slow play and sloppy passes.
2. When we did give the ball away we had the best front 3 in the world at winning back possession with the high press. Very often when we lost possession we immediately won it back without the opposition having the chance to attack.
3. All of our midfielders were ball winning midfielders. If they got past the front 3 the midfield would often win back the ball. Our current midfield lack this in abundance.
4. We had peak Fabinho who could offer unrivalled protection to our defence or drop into defence to make a back 3.

I would love to see a return to this kind of football so for me I would love to see a world class DM brought in (if there are any out there? ) and see Trent and Robbo go back to being full on wing backs. I also think it would see Nunez thrive with balls crossed into the box rather than trying to play intricate passes through 2 narrow banks of 4 that the opposition have put on the edge of their box.

20 May 2024 14:12:57
Sounds like something we were trying to implement anyway given we were linked to Colwill, Inacio, Theate or Hincapie - all LCBs adept at playing LB - last summer.

We even had Robbo shuffling inside at the start of the season to make a back three which seems to be working ok until his injury. Then Tsimikas and Gomez were playing that way while Robbo was out.

Honestly, I don't know what to think of it. Current Premier League coaches are obsessed with this press-baiting/ foot-on-ball tedium and I feel like attacking football is suffering as a result. We are fawning over defenders than can step into midfield and make progressive passes and whining about the output of our forwards. We are a team and fanbase that thrives on energy and momentum and this style of football dampens that.

20 May 2024 14:27:55
MK amazingly we had 3 Centre backs playing on quite a few occasions this season in Gomez at full back.

But more often than not he was the one chosen to invert rather than defend.

20 May 2024 14:33:19
Either that or we by a top class DM and ask him to provide better protection for our defense. Endo been a great stop gap but we need a better player in there if we are going to carrying on playing with attacking full backs.

20 May 2024 15:42:55
Don't see the problem with Endo. he done really well. even if we buy a top class DM . he can't play every game . n Endo is suited there more than any other player we've got.

20 May 2024 17:49:25
In my eyes when we played really well with klops 1st team, fabinio dropped in pretty much between our centre backs spreading the defensive load while Trent and robbo broke assist records.

20 May 2024 18:45:34
All good points in the replies. Either way seems like we all agree we found a balance between attack and defence in our old system and I think we can all agree we haven’t really had that same balance for a while and especially since Trent’s been inverting. Slot might decide to go a different way, but if he does stick to an inverted full back, how we rediscover that balance will be the key.

20 May 2024 19:25:03
Fully agree with your oh post MK. I don't like this inverted fullbacks system but if we are going with it we need to get rid of our traditional fullbacks and bring in adaptable multi positional players that fit the system like City i. e one out and out defender that is a rock (Dias) one CB that steps into midfield (Stones) and two adaptable defenders that can play fullback and CB on either side like Akanji and Ake. Much prefer that system to our inverted full back one and I actually think we already have the players to do it. VVD is the rock, Bajcetic could be the CB that steps into midfield as he has always been a CB at youth level and broke through as a DM. Gomez and Sepp VDB can play the wider roles then move Trent into a double midfield pivot. That's what I'd do anyway but hey what do I know. Excited to find out!
Sign me up when Slot gets sacked Henry!

20 May 2024 19:49:40
"Trent going into midfield doesn't drag the winger back with him, so poor Konate/ Matip have been having to stand up left wingers on the regular and try and the defend the middle of the pitch also. "


MKS, this was the first problem I saw with the inverted situation and that was when we played Spurs where Jota scored the winning goal. I could not believe the gaps we were leaving behind and I was asking myslef, "Is anyone else seeing these probs. or is it just me? ". Well, thankfully it wasn't cos many on here (including Ed01) have said the same thing (s) and do not like this system.

That being said, a guy like Sepp (or his profile) is the best guy here (as Ed01 proposed) cos he is capable of playing RB and RCB and wingback hence, he can defend out wide in space as a CB or RB. Now sill he start? I don't think so and frankly, I don't see him being kept BUT to me, that is the type of profile we should be looking at in the CB position cos Slot will invert, whether I like it or not.

20 May 2024 10:41:37
Question for Ed033 (probably) - is there a time limit or 'number of posts returned' limit on search results? I tried searching on 'Dijk' to find posts from before VVD joined us and the search results stopped at 2020.

{Ed033's Note - Using VVD as the search term, results in posts as far back as 07 Aug 2017.

The search function is very limited on number of results and only searches Eds Notes.

20 May 2024 14:38:40
Ah OK, thanks '33.