21 May 2024 09:49:40
@West Derby Wanderer3,
Macca not world class, come on west derby, mate. the lad has a medal and a trophy which tells you he is world class. He was a big part of the Argentina winning the world cup mate he is in the elite footballers of the world you do know buddy that there are only 8 teams that have won the world cup from 1930 to date.
When Macca has the settled midfield partners around him you will see why we got the bargain of the year unlike the lad at Chelsea who was Macca's partner in the world cup and cost 100+ million pounds. West Derby would you say Glenn Hoddle, King Kenny Graham Souness, Brian Robson, Paul Gaza were world class mate they never won the world cup?
21 May 2024 10:49:48
@iwillbered, I don’t see what you see with macca mate. I think he’s ok. winning the World Cup is no barometer it’s about 8 games. ( we certainly wasn’t the best team in Europe when we won in Istanbul) the Curtis who got sent off at spurs is better.
21 May 2024 11:23:55
@scousejohn
Not sure why as a Liverpool fan you’re going to such lengths to create a narrative that Mac Alister isn’t a top player.
Winning the World Cup is no barometer for being a good player? I disagree.
He’s much better than “ok”.
And he’s much better than Curtis Jones.
Player of the season in my opinion. Of course you’re entitled to yours too.
21 May 2024 11:54:04
People have forgotten how Mac Allister was struggling and how many goals were scored due to his mistakes, when he was playing DM. The story changed dramatically when Endo came in and Mac Allister was moved forward.
For me he's a very good player. But his body of work with us is too small for me to say if he is world class or not. I'm aware of the titles he's won, but I still want to see more from him. Alisson, VVD and Salah are world class for me because I've seen them be at that level for a heck of a long time.
I think Szoboszlai is better than Mac Allister and Jones, but very far from showing it on any consistent level. I don't know what's happened to him. I'll be watching him closer next season.
21 May 2024 12:19:49
Bernard diomede was world class then.
21 May 2024 12:21:58
I don’t think BD started many games for France in that run.
21 May 2024 12:24:42
Indeed, @Mad Max BUT Diomede is nowhere near the player Macca is, ability-wise.
As for me Macca ain't world class, mate I love the player to bits cos his ability on the ball, vision, press-resistance and goalscoring ability from midfield top class, IMO. The world class thingy is a bit much and just cos he won a WC (and was pivotal) does NOT mean he is world class cos football does not start nor end based on your performance in a tournament that comes along every 4 years. Just may take.
21 May 2024 12:12:22
Where do you see Elliot play Ed1? As no 10 behind main striker? I do like him getting the ball from deeper area and carry the ball forward like he is doing these days.
{Ed001's Note - he definitely could play there and that is the position I always have said would suit him best. So yes, that is where I would like to see him if possible.}
21 May 2024 13:16:29
If we could release Macca to play further forward I think we would see a completely different player- able to join in more going forward and use his technical ability to create in the final third
Same goes for Szob imo
We seem to have bought both and try to get them to play a way they aren’t used to or potentially suited to playing.
21 May 2024 13:34:08
Out of all the players who had poor season in this Liverpool squad.
I never thought we’d be discussing Mac.
21 May 2024 13:44:54
Macca struggled as a DM, but imo most of the games he played with Endo behind him he's been good. Not world class per se, but easily good enough.
21 May 2024 15:07:44
@navy Keith: I’m not creating any narrative, as you say it’s a all about opinions mine being different to yours. I hope he does become world class. Right now tho the Curtis who got sent off at spurs would get in my team above him every time.
21 May 2024 15:30:28
Madmax, yes diomede was world class if he won a world cup winners medal there is no higher honour. Oilred it takes four years to win the world cup.
21 May 2024 16:27:37
With Mac at DM we really struggled.
We struggled that much we were 2nd in the league with him playing 14 games there before being injured.
{Ed001's Note - but we were having to rescue most of the games. We were getting results despite playing poorly, not because he was playing well. It is idiotic to suggest that it was because of him in DM that we were in second, just shows a lack of understanding of how a team game works and how you can get away with a player having bad games when there are 10 others on your team. Context is key to using stats otherwise they are just meaningless.}
21 May 2024 16:41:04
@Iwillbered for those of us who actually watched Diomede play in the 90's in the French league for A. J. A (A;J Auxerre), nobody ever accused him of being world class. So him winning the WC as a bench guy, will never change that. Just saying.
21 May 2024 17:06:11
Ed001 i actually agree Mac in the 8 and Endo in the 6 is a better fit for us i just don't think he was awful and i've never said we were 2nd just because Mac was playing there.
Even when Endo came in at 6 we have spent most of the season having to rescue games as we have gone behind more often than not.
I'm looking forward to seeing what changes Slot makes to the formation that hopefully keeps us an attacking threat but really tightens us up as a unit.
Gonna be strange seeing a new man in that dugout or technical area for our next game.
{Ed001's Note - that was my point, it is not about one player. But Macca was awful there, it was clear he didn't understand the role and was struggling. A lot of people blamed it on him being too slow, but that is nonsense, he just looked slow because he was reacting after the fact, so being caught on the hoof. It was just not the right position for him and another case of Klopp and Lijnders insisting on shoehorning players into positions that didn't fit them.
I am actually looking forward to a fresh start, even though I love Klopp and will miss him, it was clear it was time to go for his sake.}
21 May 2024 19:04:33
Eds, re elliot, am I right in thinking he's been playing a completely different role over the last few weeks? I've been taking double takes as he popped up on the left, middle and the right but that seems new considering we're used to seeing him on the right in place of salah (or behind)
{Ed001's Note - yes mate, he was on the left side of the midfield pairing. I think it suited him as he was excellent. Probably our best player over the last few games.}
21 May 2024 22:36:19
@Nobby Stiles won a World Cup winners medal, so, as has been said, that’s not really a yardstick for being world class although I do acknowledge that the word ‘world’ is used before the word ‘cup’ and ‘class’.
@Iwiil, I did actually say that Macca, is very good, which he is but if you were picking a world eleven (that word again) he wouldn’t feature in the team or even be in the bench. I could argue that the world eleven might also contain players who aren’t actually world class but we won’t go there, as the conversation will lead to pantomime or madness.
I am glad that Macca plays for us and I think when he is allowed to play in the role that best suits his skills he is undoubtedly an automatic starter. Hope this clears things up?
22 May 2024 01:32:41
I had this argument with a Spurs fan about Romero. He’s saying that Romero is one of the top 3 CB’s in the world because he won a World Cup.
For me Romero has no positional sense and is way too rash to be considered in the top 30 CB’s in the world.
Being that I don’t think international football is anywhere near the highest quality football in the world, how can winning the World Cup be any kind of barometer on the best players in the world?
Macca has been hot a cold. Great at times but a liability at other times. The potential is there but it’s way too early to say whether he can make it at a top club long term.
22 May 2024 03:19:35
To be fair, in my lifetime, lots of words and phrases have changed there meaning which is only natural, as language evolves and will carry on doing so.
If you take the word ‘legend’, when I was a boy the likes of Robin Hood and King Arthur and Excalibur were considered to be legends - mythical heroes in inspiring tales of good fighting evil. These days Divock Origi is considered a legend by some. Don’t get me wrong, Divock seems like a decent bloke who scored some noteworthy goals for us but he wouldn’t have been called a legend when I was a kid.
The same sort of applies to World Class although I never really knew the original description. I knew Pele was world class and I knew that Cruyff was world class and Franz Beckenbauer was world class and I assumed that it meant that the player would automatically be in the starting 11 to represent Earth should the Martians show up with a footy team. These days it seems that if a player who plays in the team you support has a run of a dozen good games then he’s elevated to World Class. I’m not actually saying it’s wrong, as I say words and phrases change meaning over time but I stand by what I’ve said about Macca, in this instance.
As an aside, apparently the word ‘sycophant’ originally meant fig seller and ‘clinical’ as in Suarez was a clinical finisher referred to doctors who made house calls back in the day having a ‘good bedside manner’.
22 May 2024 04:19:42
It all depends on how you define World Class.
Winning the WC doesn't qualify in my opinion mainly because there have been some exceptional players (like Dalglish, C. Ronaldo) whos national team were not good enough to make a winners medal possible.
Some suggest to be World Class they need to be the best in their position in the world’s best XI. But this disregards the fact that there can be a number of exceptional players in a position at one time: if Mbappe is world class, does that mean that Kane, Haaland, Osimhen, Son, etc, aren’t? Possibly, possibly not.
Players can have unbelievable seasons where they are outstanding and then tail off rapidly through injuries, lifestyle, loss of form. Was Michael Owen world class in the second half of his career? Gazza?
Personally, i think a player who plays at an exceptional standard of the course of his career can qualify as World Class - a player who stands out in any team.
Mac isn't quite there IMO but there's no reason why he won't be regarded as World Class by the time his career is over.