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26 Feb 2021 20:21:53
Hi Eds, I'm having some conversations with mates about FSG and the proposed investment from RedBird capital.

The debate is, does this mean spending bounty for Liverpool, or keeping the lights switched on for FSG.

What are your thoughts and are there any articles I could point towards about FSG cash flow issues.

{Ed002's Note - I have explained this at length. You need to understand that if FSG sell, say 20%, of the club, the money goes to FSG and not to the transfer fund. It has rather been done to death.}

Agree1 Disagree0

26 Feb 2021 23:44:11
If FSG get £400m and Liverpool don’t seriously improve the squad then they could well be forced out of the club. I don’t see anyway they cash in and are not forced to invest in new players. Lack of top 4 or challenging for CL seriously damages their investment.

FSG have done a very good job upto this point but next year will be make or break for them. Liverpool will fall behind without investment. Minimum 5 players are required.
Cf, cb, Gini replacement, AM, and a full back that is the minimum required to challenge.

27 Feb 2021 05:50:27
Forced out of the club? Lol. United supporters have spent almost 20 years trying to force the Glazers to sell and guess what, they are still there, what makes you think you are any different?

27 Feb 2021 07:39:41
Thunderbird 2, Utd fans have had little to moan about over the last 20 years they have backed every manager with huge investment.

27 Feb 2021 09:03:57
Mark, and what are you going to do about it? And FSG can be forced out of the club by who? Maybe you do not grasp how these things work. Nobody nor any fan’s mean tweets can force FSG out of the club and cos they are not doing what you want and spending money the club does not have, won’t do that either.

As Ed has said, if you buy a stake in the club, that is straight cash to the owners, end of story. The club dies not get a Ed cent of it, like it or not. That is business 101 and There is nothing anyone can do about it. IMO, next year won’t make or break anything. The financial realities on the ground will dictate our mode of operation in the summer as that is the world we live in, which is not the world you would like it to be.

Let us all take a deep breathe and hope we can solve most of our probs this summer cos the C.V. will still b here then and FSG will STILL be our owners and if you want that to change, you know what to do. No point making empty statements.

27 Feb 2021 09:18:34
Ok Thunderbird forced out is a bit OTT but I think they will come under serious pressure from Players, manager, fans to seriously invest. We can't keep only spending half the money of our competitors. It has caught up with them/ us, the squad is not good enough in therms of depth.

Posters seem to think we only need a couple of players, I think we will need min 5.

{Ed077's Note - The CL and PL winning side is still largely in tact. If lets say the team regains its form and confidence who is to say Liverpool cant contend for the PL and CL again next season. If that happens will it matter whether LFC/FSG signed many new "top" players for huge huge sums of money or only sign 1 or 2 "cheap" and "unfancied" players like you did with Robertson for example. I think not.}

27 Feb 2021 09:40:08
The football world is changing all the time. I think in 5 years the likes of FSG will have to sell up. Only oil money owners will be able to compete. City will prove this over the next 10 transfer windows.

{Ed077's Note - Didnt they say no team without World superstars and multiple big money signings will ever win the PL in the early 2010s only for Leicester to go on and win it without any earth shattering transfer deals?

You guys seem to have forgotten where you were before FSG took over. Some seem to act like you won the CL and PL despite FSG not because of them which is just absurd and disrespectful if you ask me.

Mind you the "oil money owners" of Man City have still not managed to win the CL just yet. Actually they havent even made it to the final till now, which LFC under supposedly "not good" ownership of FSG have, twice}

27 Feb 2021 09:54:29
Oli, if we don't make the top 4 something will have to give. If we don't invest and are fighting for places 4-6 then some players will look to leave, then it becomes a slippery slope. I hope they will invest to a certain level and we can get back challenging.

There are a lot of If's in there ed. let's hope it goes that way and the squad just needs a slight re fresh.

Robbo is completely knackered, every year its the same, he needs help.
Gini is off and he is the only midfielder who can stay fit.
We have no goals from midfield.
Centre forward who can't kick it straight
Desperate for a cb.
Many of our top players getting old together.

A lot of work to do is all I am saying. If the club can work some magic again and solve that for minimal investment then they will deserve all the praise going. Its just very hard to compete year after year if you don't sometimes compete in the market. We of course did it before and look what happened. FSG might surprise everyone their legacy might be very important to them they might give Klopp what he needs. After that it can be sell to buy all the way.

{Ed077's Note - yeah you could do with 1 or 2 younger players in the first 11 but it doesnt have to be a big money signing. Recruitment isnt only about spending large sums on money on big name players. Its more about signing players who suit the team regardless of whether they are a relative unknown or a world superstar.

If the strain and impact caused on all economy because of Covid-19 means that LFC cant go chasing the big money signings than you cant be saying FSG are "bad" ownersor "bad" for the club. Everyone is suffering, all round the world in 1 way or another.}

27 Feb 2021 10:02:41
It is very true they have been very good owners and we are in a much better place as a club. But there is a possibilty without some investment now we could quickly go back to scratching around fighting for 4th every season.

One top level centre back of Klopp's choosing and the rest can be made up from sales. Even that will probably require £100m investment.

{Ed077's Note - you guys do realize that even if FSG were willing and able to give the club/Klopp 200m to spend the club cant break the FFP right?}

27 Feb 2021 10:02:45
FSG have done a great job since taking over first league title in 30 years a champions league win and runner up the season before. Am sure if we had not had such a bad run of injuries we would be right up there, in fact I think we would be clear at the top. Then there is the main stand new training ground and soon the Anfield road stand. All inside of 10 years Thunderbird can you remember what a state are club was in before they took over.

27 Feb 2021 10:03:59
Selling part of the club doesn't mean fsg have money to pump into the club, it simply means they're selling off their investment bit by bit. If they sold the club to someone, you wouldn't expect them to use that money to improve the team as a leaving present, so why would they do it when they sell part of the club?

27 Feb 2021 10:14:23
No of course they are not bad owners and at the end of the day if the C.V. makes it impossible then we suck it up and move on. However this started as a conversation about FSG bringing in £400m-£500m to their pot.

If they do that I beleive they won't have that excuse. Some investment will be needed, I am sure they want to keep us challenging as well, even if only to bring in revenue.

27 Feb 2021 10:19:46
All very true that Grino. I am wishing they decide to go again next year to keep us at the top. Not crazy investment just a top cb would be great. If we have to sell Salah to reinvest it will be a sad day.

27 Feb 2021 10:25:51
Because Rugby I want them to be driven by success on the pitch which in turn brings in the increased revenue. They could well look to the future of increased streaming rights, European Football etc and want to keep us at the top before they finally cash in all their chips.

By investing in the summer they will be protecting their long term investment. No good for them if the team can't make top 4, the value of the club will continue to go down.

27 Feb 2021 10:33:56
No one is asking for £200m - no one has ever said that. We are not Chelsea, Man City or Utd. We have to invest to our level which I hope is one top cb and the rest made up from sales.

{Ed077's Note - what players do you expect to sell, without needing proper replacement that will raise significant funds? The point I was trying to make is FFP is still a thing.}

27 Feb 2021 10:53:32
The club might have to be more realistic in player values this summer

Shaq, Origi, Wilson, Grujic, maybe £50m. Could be used to find a couple of gems. Others want to sell Keita but I still hope he is part of the answer going forward. Ed keeps telling us we have a HG issue so we has to address that as well soon.

{Ed077's Note - one thing to consider is that the player salaries even for the squad player and fringe players at big clubs is huge so, it is hard to move the surplus/not good players on for "big" transfer fees. I would consider 50m to be a bit too high of an expectation for the likes of Shaqiri, Origi, Wilson and Grujic in this C.V hit market.}

27 Feb 2021 10:57:22
Mark, you are barking up the wrong tree here. If we don’t make top 4 which is more than a possibility right now, the club will adapt. It has to. That does not mean we have to sell any of our big players either except they agitate to go. We will have to see.

You keep harping on Robbo being knackered or this or that forward or mid. Did Klopp not sign Tsimikas to help out? The guy has been slowed down immensely by injury and CV. Same with Jota to help the front three and Thiago to create for us? They also have been ravaged with injuries and CV. Keita is always injured and same with Shaq hence, Gini has to play every game snd he is totally shattered. Are you going to blame FSG for that too? You may hate them BUT you don’t get to blame them for things out if their control including Bobbie missing a sitter or you catching a common cold.

Again, you are barking up the wrong tree cos FSG is not the prob. Neither is Klopp not the players. Football and life happened to us this season and we have to pull through it together. And Because all the things did not pan out the way we wanted dies NOT mean the club and Klopp did not plan ahead cos clearly they did.

As Ed has said, we don’t need all these big signings as that does not guarantee anything either. We already have the nucleus of the best team in the world in the past 2/ 3 season or so, in place. 2/ 3 players to strengthen the first 11 and the bench should do the trick. As for FSG not investing, that is a bold face lie (not saying you saids so) and we all know it so not even going to address that rubbish. And FSG ain’t selling up anytime soon either except you can make them an offer they CAN’T refuse.

27 Feb 2021 11:06:07
Just because, in theory FSG get £400/ 500 million, it still doesn't mean they can spend it on players, does it? I'm far from up to date with FFP regulations but I wouldn't be sure that they could "invest" the money on players.

{Ed077's Note - not without breaching FFP which can result in fines, European bans and point deductions depending on the factors, severity and frequency of breaches I believe.}

27 Feb 2021 11:51:10
If RedBird Capital buy 10 or 20% of the club, are they buying equity?
If so, I presume at least some of that could be reinvested in the club?
I wonder if it could find its way to the Anfield Road redevelopment?

{Ed002's Note - Yes they would be buying a stake in the club. The money goes to the owners who would be giving up part of their investment. The are investors, not a charity - they want a return on their investment.}

27 Feb 2021 12:02:49
That’s it, IR. it seems people are ONLY able to grasp investment in terms if spending on players and players alone. It is the most myopic way of approaching this topic and it seems only in England that this tunnel vision approach exists.

FSG have not only invested hundreds of millions on players since they got here, they have invested hundreds of millions into the whole infrastructure of the club like the Main Stand, the Anfield Road end of the stadium, the new state of the art Kirkby facility etc. In addition, we always moaned about not being able to keep our best players. Now, that has changed due to player contract structure, player scouting and increased wage bill rising drastically and IF you want our players, we will stick you for every penny. Michael Edwards was hired for a reason BUT who cares cos FSG (who hired both him and Klopp) are mugs, yeah?

In addition, I read that the owners have invested heavily in the club’s medical facilities and Sports Science dept. Hence, our top players stay fit and can play as many games as they did. All big clubs do this and it is high time LFC followed suit so you can actually attract the top players you want cos these things matter to them too, not just the wage packet.

Certain fans just seem unable to grasp this side of player/ club investment and ONLY focus on players, players, players. And as Ed had said repeatedly on here, you cannot just spend 200m on players without FFP coming after you and besides, that is not FSG’s schstick anyway so I find it dishonest and disingenuous to ask FSG to do something we ALL know they cannot do cos it is illegal or cos it is not their ethos and they clearly cannot afford to do so.

27 Feb 2021 12:11:05
Sure Ed002, but the kinds of numbers being mentioned are not dissimilar from the full total FSG paid for the club ten years or so ago?
That’s not a bad return on investment, albeit I understand they’ve never taken annual dividends (though being board members they’d be salaried I presume) .

{Ed002's Note - What they want is a merger of the two businesses. That would not suit FSG who will at some point be looking for a higher level of growth than they can get from Liverpool whose value will flatten out. And you need to keep in mind the money involved would not be that of RedBall but of investors who have guaranteed that money.}

27 Feb 2021 14:14:34
Oli why do you take out of posts only tiny pieces of what posters are saying to then suit your own agenda? You used to do the same under your old usernames. I said FSG have done a good job, and I hope they invest next summer. Where does hate come from? Read the posts properly for once please.

27 Feb 2021 14:44:28
Mark, no agenda here, bro. Also, if I had to address every point in your posts, it will b a 5 page thesis. I addressed as much as I could in your posts yet the hate part is all you got out of it?

Now as to whether you hate FSG or not, maybe hate is a string word BUT you and many others just keep digging them out for no reason, just like you didn’t months digging out Bobbie last season. Who has the agenda now?


You cannot on one hand say they have done a good job and at the same time dig them out whenever things go south regardless of what they are. Stay consistent. As for me having used other usernames in the past, not sure what that has to do with the price of salt at the farmers’ market. I am free to change my usernames as I see fit and others do it as well, as long as the Ed’s don’t have a prob with it.

27 Feb 2021 15:07:12
When have I dug them out? I said I hope they invest or I think they will come under increasing pressure. I am consistent on FSG they have done well but clearly more to do. Bobby is a different matter entirely I dig him out all the time because he is not performing as he should. He should be doing extra sessions to try and fix his issues, maybe he is. When he has a good game I always try and say, it just hardly happens anymore.

27 Feb 2021 15:45:55
Lots of good points here on all sides. All I'll say is that without champions league Leicester in the past 4 years have signed fofana, James, maddison, soyuncu, pereira, Evans, maguire and ndidi for just about the cost of keita, chamberlain and shaqiri. All without champions league football. The idea that quality players only move if a team has champions league football that year, or that they can only be bought by spending 50m+ a player, is demonstrably untrue. But it takes some calm heads trusting our fantastic management team over players you've never heard of and giving them a fair chance rather than complaining that they aren't mbappe and De ligt.

{Ed002's Note - So Klopp out Claudio Ranieri or Claude Puel in?}

27 Feb 2021 16:05:50
If it were legal I'd cage klopp in the dugout so he can never leave! Just pointing out that the idea that buying serious reinforcements doesn't always mean spending man City money or even playing in the champions league. Nor does spending big money or leveraging the chance to play in the champions league necessarily mean getting brilliant reliable players in.

27 Feb 2021 16:53:43
You make good points there hjike. Leicester have signed some quality players but they still don’t challenge for the title in the past 4 years. They haven’t even made top 4, could change this season though, in terms of top 4.

27 Feb 2021 18:14:12
They didn't have a base that won 180+ points over the last two seasons, and have alongside those also bought a number of younger players like tielemans and Barnes who have taken some time to hit their stride. They had to rebuild 18 months after their title win between key players leaving and players getting way past their peak, we're adjusting. And like I said, purely pointing out the quality available despite the price and possibly CL barriers faced this summer - any of those players mentioned, and there are plenty others from other teams across Europe, would be a great signing that adds much better depth and most would push for a starting spot too.







 

 

 
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