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07 Aug 2020 23:17:57
Hypothetical question.

Let's say wjinaldum doesn't sign a deal.

Who would people rather we sign out of Carlos, Lewis or thiago? Can only be one.

I can't decide, but if pushed I suppose I'd have to say Carlos.

Agree0 Disagree0

07 Aug 2020 23:53:15
Definitely Roberto Carlos.

08 Aug 2020 00:46:32
So hypothetically we lose a cm which random player from another position would you sign? 😂 surely the fate of Carlos or Lewis has no impact from gini.

08 Aug 2020 02:19:39
Lewis, the drop off between Robertson and Milner in an attacking sense is much larger than the drop off between Gomez and Matip or, if he joins, Carlos and Gomez.

08 Aug 2020 04:27:17
Yeah I’d probably go with Imred based on the above, though I think Matip and Carlos are miles ahead of Gomez.

08 Aug 2020 05:21:00
Did you watch Diego Carlos playing for Brighton this season?

08 Aug 2020 07:49:33
I’d love to see Thiago come in. There’s no doubting what a superb player he is. Not many players can light up Barcelona and Bayern midfields consistently for all these years and not be top class. Lewis is young so we can look at him next season. Milner, Gomez and Williams can cover the lb position again next season if needed.

08 Aug 2020 07:51:04
Thiago should be a priority signing if Wijnaldum leaves. There won't be any other world class midfielders available for €35m any time soon. Lewis is totally unrelated and Carlos is not affordable even if Gini leaves.

I watched an interview yesterday with Rafael Honigstein and the guy interviewing met Bobby Robson for dinner just before he passed, and he was recalling what Robson had said about Thiago. He couldn't stop talking about him all through dinner apparently. Thiago would've been about 17 or 18 i'd guess? And yet he stood out in Barcelona training in an era they were utterly dominant.

Even Honigstein himself was genuinely deflated that the Bundesliga was losing such a player. His exact words on Liverpool possibly signing Thiago were "they will win everything". That's a German football expert who has watched more of Thiago in the last 12 months than anyone on this site has in their entire lives.

I honestly didn't know Thiago was this under rated. I simply cannot fathom people wanting a relegated Norwich left back as cover over one of the best midfielders of a generation (again, i don't see how Lewis relates to Wijnaldum though) . I fully respect everyone's right to an opinion but i just find that bonkers. He's won the Spanish/ German league in 9 out of the last 10 seasons.

I honestly don't want to offend anyone but it's like people are talking about a different player at times. Unlike Wijnaldum, he actually wants to play for Liverpool as well. Guardiola and Klopp, the two top managers of the last decade, both rate him. So i'm going to have to take their side with this. These are confusing times!

08 Aug 2020 08:24:37
Can I ask how many times you have actually watched Carlos play?
Lowel lfc.

{Ed0666's Note - exactly I wanna know how many Liverpool fans know who Diego Carlos is let alone see him play. Eds 001 literally watches more football than anyone on the planet and he’s struggling to tell you what he’s like and all of a sudden everyone’s thinks Carlos is an upgrade on Matip and Gomez. He may well be but the majority of opinions are not coming from an informed place it’s all secondary gleaned from he said she said and you tube clips. But that doesn’t mean to say LowelFc isnt an authority on Carlos I hasten to add.

08 Aug 2020 09:24:11
Johncrow Junior - I rave about him far more than I probably should given that I hadn’t seen him before this season. I started watching Sevilla play live when Football resumed as I can watch any game I want with my subscription, and did so on commutes to work. After that I went back and watched all the Sevilla games against better teams from this season.
I couldn’t care less how much football other people watch, I’ve seen enough to know he’s better than Gomez. Honestly, I don’t rate Gomez as highly as most others (yet! ) . He’s a good young defender, that’s all.
Ed0666 was saying the other week about how Gomez was outperforming Van Dijk at times before. In that case I’d assume you wouldn’t be too worried if VVD got injured since we’d have Gomez performing so well.
Carlos is good, period.

08 Aug 2020 09:50:32
didn't know who carlos is until his name was mentioned here.

08 Aug 2020 10:20:56
Man Bun, I think your post is one of the best I've seen on these pages for many a year.

08 Aug 2020 11:53:13
I appreciate that you're a fan of Thiago and so is Klopp as you say. My concern isn't his skill set but his work rate, his industry in our midfield 3. That's my worry if he was to replace Gini.
Also does any other team actually win the Bundesliga? It's hardly a recommendation to buy a player. Maybe you should be asking how many Champions Leagues he's won with Bayern?

08 Aug 2020 13:13:46
I've seen a decent amount of La Liga games and I don't get the hype around Diego Carlos. Yea he's a good defender and can hit a long pass but he's nothing special, he's not better than anything we have already especially at the price that Sevilla are looking for him. Signing him would be poor business in my opinion. By every statistic available Aïssa Mandi is a better defender and player, if he's available for £9million then it'd make perfect sense for Klopp and Co. to be interested.
If you look at the targets we've apparently identified it's reasonable to suggest that we'll spend roughly £80million on four players this window (using average reported prices/ fees) most if not all that money will be raised by selling fringe players (Karius, Lovren, Grujic, Wilson, Origi, Awoniyi, Shaqiri, Kane, Ojo, Ejaria and Phillips)
Any gaps will probably be filled by academy players. So with all that factored in its clear to me that we won't be wasting £50+million on signing Diego Carlos.

08 Aug 2020 13:24:46
Irish I think it’s a tough one to ask how many CL a player has won to use as a stick to beat them. Lewandowski is at Bayern and he’s not to shabby. Similar to Messi, it’s been a while since he won the CL but his own stats and performances over the years have still been sensational. After all none of our current squad had won the CL when we bought them.

08 Aug 2020 13:33:33
Another one who judges defenders on statistics. Anyone with who has been watching football for longer than say 5 minutes knows not to do that. I’m sure you can find some dodgy statistics that paint Martin Kelly as a better defender than Virgil van Dijk.
Mandi was a big part of a defence that conceded the 2nd most goals in La Liga last season. He’s absolutely mediocre and should be nowhere near Liverpool.

08 Aug 2020 14:04:30
Fortunately LoweLFC I've watched a decent amount of the La Liga, Betis are an entertaining watch and are bad as a defensive unit. Fortunately we aren't signing the whole Betis defence. We are looking at signing an individual, who's individual performance's under those circumstances and in an open and exposed system, has actually performed very well, individual statistics support that argument. His signing offers different options, he was formerly a fullback capable of covering both sides, he's comfortable in a back three, four or five, he's better in the air than Joe Gomez and has better pass completion rates, both long and short, than Van Dijk. He'll be 29 in October meaning he'll be in his prime but it also means that at his age he won't potentially be restricting the development of Hoever and Van Den Berg. Ultimately he'll be signed as a 4th choice so I can't find any reasons to complain about him not being world class rather than what we need.

08 Aug 2020 15:07:55
JK23, it was tongue in cheek mate. Merely highlighting how daft it is to point out the amount of Bundesliga titles a player has won when, let's be honest the have no competition. What have they won, 8 in a row, but rarely show up in the biggest European competition.
Like I said, it's no recommendation to buy a player.

08 Aug 2020 15:34:14
Thiago Alcantra is an outstanding talent, he will definitely improve an already world class team. A player of his ability will handle the prem. If Wijnaldum is not signing a new deal, then replace him with one of the worlds best players instead. This is an opportunity Liverpool should not miss, if the rumours are true.

08 Aug 2020 16:03:14
So what you are saying, is that since Thiago joined Bayern, they've completely dominated? And that in your mind, is a negative? 🤔

Hardly been poor in Europe. It's just been an era dominated by Messi and Ronaldo.

08 Aug 2020 17:12:44
Matip is miles ahead of gomez lowell? That's rubbish, gomez is our 2nd best cb imo and often look more assured than Virgil. Matip had a really good spell when we won the champions league but Joe gomez has been excellent for much longer periods.

I'd choose Carlos because we have a lot of midfielders and we have one or two players who can cover the lb position. But we are short of a senior cb and surely you need 2 players for each position.

It was a bit of a silly question but thought it'd be interesting to see how people valued our potential targets.

08 Aug 2020 17:13:14
Just to elaborate further, Rover.

In the 7 years before Thiago joined Bayern, they only won 3 League titles. Dortmund x2, Wolfsburg x1, Stuttgart x1, Bayern x3.

In the 7 years since Thiago joined Bayern, they have won 7 League titles.

Obviously it'd be unreasonable to suggest that is all down to Thiago. But my point is that the league isn't bad just because Bayern have dominated. It was a competitive league before Bayern went to another level, and part of that was due to Thiago signing.

Oh and Thiago has won the Champions league by the way. At Barcelona albeit. That means he has the same number of Champions League titles as anyone in our squad i believe?

The man is a winner and he's an integral part of a dominant machine. His team mates recently called him "the engine". He runs the team from a playmaking perspective, but he is also one of the most industrious players in the side.

The only argument against him is his injury record. Henderson and Fabinho both miss a lot of games too though and nobody wants them out.

I agree with Greenflash. We'd be silly to miss this opportunity over resale value.

08 Aug 2020 17:35:30
Harvey has won me over. Thiago for me too. Eloquent argument mate.

08 Aug 2020 18:15:37
Irish my bad.

08 Aug 2020 19:28:25
Cheers Robbie. For what it's worth mate, if Gini stays and Matip leaves then Carlos would be my choice. Not seen loads of him to be honest but his reputation precedes him and he is another who both Klopp and Guardiola seemingly rate highly.

08 Aug 2020 20:25:32
Since there's all this fantasizing going on about Thiago Alcantara's abilities, let me play Devil's Advocate.

So he's one of the best midfielders of his generation, is it? So what does that make of Modric, De Bruyne, Kante, Busquets, David Silva, Kroos, Pogba, and quite a few others? Best midfielders of the century? Yes the man is talented, but let's not become like the click-baiters we see from morning to night, hyping a player to the limits of the skies and then crucifying for the slightest misstep.

He's played 16 seasons in his footballing career thus far. In only 4 seasons he made 27 appearances in league games. And in only 1 season (2018) he made 30 appearances in the league. The rest of the years he made lesser appearances for whatever assorted reasons (injuries included) . What makes you think he has the ability to make it over to a harder, faster and more physical league at a much older age? Without getting into whether Wijnaldum will extend or not, let's look at Wiji's appearance numbers over a 14 year footballing career. They're all in the low to high 30's per season. And for LFC the minimum has been 33 appearances and 37 for the maximum; all games combined he has played in a minimum of 42 games and a maximum of 50. Over a 16 year career Thiago has 391 appearances; Wiji has 515 appearances over 14 years.

My point is that there isn't that great a difference in the "value" between the two, as some make it sound. One (Wiji) is a workhorse who reports present whenever Klopp calls and gives the team the graft and effort that is required while playing out of his usual (earlier) position. And he scores crucial goals (his career average is 3 times higher than Thiago's) . He's one of the reasons the team ticks. The other (Thiago) is a talented creative player who'll pass and spray the ball around and offer new inroads for our game. But his big weakness is his fitness. You can only contribute to a team if you're on the field playing. Your talent is useless on the sidelines. We know about Thiago's abilities with the ball, what do we know about his abilities without it (defensively)? Can he press? We know Wiji covers our wingbacks well, covers and presses the ball and has been praised by Klopp for it.

(By the way, I like Thiago quite a lot. I think he would make a valuable contribution to the squad, but I have my doubts he would be able to hold on a to a starter's place due to fitness issues. I know statistics are frowned upon here, but career long numbers don't lie. It would be a sound enough investment though for 3 years at around the 20 Million being quoted. He could even prove influential and invaluable in training to the youngsters like TAA, Jones and others. )

08 Aug 2020 21:04:31
Thiago if widji leaves and use the kids to fill the holes in the squad including at centre back. Neco can be coached to play left back as back up if we can't raise the funds for two players.

08 Aug 2020 23:11:11
Our defence was shocking before vvd signed, and that was with lovren and matip/ gomez. Can we really trust young Philips if vvd gets injured, say deep into the European Cup? I really feel we need another senior cb. I dunno, Philips played first team footy for shalke last season so perhaps he is ready. With gomez and matips injury record he could end up playing z fair bit. And we're defending our league title, we can't afford yo lose many (of any) games. Lovren had the odd mistake in him but he was a really good cb in the whole, I really think he needs replacing.

But if thiago is as good as some say, I really feel we should go for him. It's a tough one.

{Ed0666's Note - Lovren had the odd mistake in him? That’s the understatement of the day lol. I agree with you’re opinion on Philips tho I’d prefer a more experienced and dare I say better one.

09 Aug 2020 00:28:48
ArAy, i only said one of the best of his generation. Not the best. Or the top 10 etc. A generation in football terms, is what? A 10 year period.

If you are going off the last decade I'd say Modric, De Bruyne and Silva are the only ones on your list who are better. Kante has had 3 good seasons but if he finds his 2015-2018 form again then fair enough he has a solid case. Busquets and Pogba are over rated and Kroos although great, isn't as good in my opinion. I'd also throw in Iniesta who was at the top of his game for the majority of the last decade.

The fact you have to bring up players like this to make your point only strengthens my case though, i think.

Also it's worth noting when highlighting Thiago's "lack" of games that he plays in Germany. That's a country with only 34 league games, and 1 domestic cup. Wijnaldum has played half of his senior career in a country with 2 domestic cups and 38 league games. More games to go around means more game time. I do fully agree Wijnaldum has superior natural fitness to Thiago though.

I'm just not sure i fully subscribe to the claim Thiago is injury prone when he has played 392 games. I'm also not sure where you got a 16 year career from. That would make him 13 years old when he started. Its actually a 12 year career and that's including the first 3 years where he was making less than 20 appearances because he was a young player flitting between the Barcelona A and B team.

Since becoming a regular 9 years ago for the Barcelona A team, he has averaged 35 appearances a season (313 in total) which is heavily skewed by his one major injury of his career which resulted in ending one season after 25 appearances, and him only returning late next season to make 13.

In fact, if you ignore his one major injury (2014), in the other 7 full seasons as a senior he has averaged 39 appearances. He already has 37 this season and could still make that 40 if Bayern go to the final in the Champions League.

Is he actually that injury prone? He's pretty much had one bad injury and then suffered standard niggles that most players do. Although admittedly not Wijnaldum who is a supremely robust player.

Just to add as well, this post was Thiago vs Lewis vs Carlos. Not so much a debate with Wijnaldum as in the hypothetical scenario presented by the OP, Gini has left the club! Enjoyed reading your reply though mate. Just double check the years on their careers. Some sites list the same year twice if they played for 2 different teams in a single season. Easy mistake to make, and doesn't take away from your good point about Wijnaldum being more durable.

{Ed0666's Note - Do you’re colleagues call you Briefcase Billy at work Harvey? You should be a lawyer mate, I’m sure you’d be a really good one.

09 Aug 2020 06:30:35
Harvey, thanks for the reply. As I had said, I was merely playing Devil's Advocate, because I didn't think the "fawning" over Thiago was really that merited. Overall, it's my opinion that they are of equal value to a team, with each offering a different set of skills. In an ideal World, Wiji would extend his contract and we'd buy Thiago too. I do like Thiago and believe he can improve the team. Start off games with Wiji and if defenses are not getting unlocked then bring in Thiago to offer a different look to our midfield, do things a little differently. Extend bother careers a little bit with less games, and keep them fresh too. But we don't live there and we're currently under the Corona year (or decade, who knows? ), so I know that's not a possibility. And who knows if keeping both would mess with the progress of Fabinho or Keita? In regards to the years I used, I simply added the numbers of years for which stats were listed; so yes it includes the years they were both teeny boppers (we all cheat in using stats to win arguments) .

One last thing. Get a haircut, man. Man buns are so 1970's.

09 Aug 2020 19:31:11
I can't believe everyone is going crazy about signing Thiago, most of you on here have never seen him play, don't know if he'll fit into our system. Just because he plays for Bayern and the media hype, doesn't mean he'll end up at Liverpool, his age will be a factor, if he was a free transfer we'd snap him up, but I think he's off to PSG.

09 Aug 2020 09:11:45
Ed0666, i am not a lawyer. I am a bad haircut. I'm incapable of sentience 😉

I agree with that ArAy. I'd want Thiago to sign, but not at the expense of Wijnaldum if he'd just sign a deal. Gini is our 3rd best midfielder out of about 6 or 7 options. So certainly not one of the first ones you'd look to replace!

Cheers for a mature debate. It's rare online!

{Ed0666's Note - It’s part and parcel of football mate players wanna leave for whatever reason and it’s up to the suits within the club to replace them. It’s the natural order of things. I’m with you I hope he stays tho.







 

 

 
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