Liverpool banter 246825


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21 Feb 2024 22:28:20
I've been very critical of Gravenberch so far but after todays game, that I personally think was his best so far, I simply need to give credit where it's due. What a performance off the ball. Got stuck in and fought like the rest of the team.

Agree4 Disagree0

21 Feb 2024 22:55:59
You gave up on him too early Danish ?

Seriously though, he was truly awful to begin with but some weeks ago he started showing signs of improved work rate and poor Arsenal game aside, it looks like he is taking bigger steps now. If he can keep improving work rate, the rest will follow for him. Liked majority of his game tonight.

21 Feb 2024 23:02:00
First time I’ve seen Mac Alister play live tonight and he did disappoint he was a lot better than I thought! Elliot ran himself into the ground and vvd was cool at f**k.

21 Feb 2024 23:15:52
I’ve been telling anyone who’ll listen (and some that won’t) that Gravenberch is such an exciting prospect.

He has abilities that you just can’t teach but you can see that youth football has been so easy for him that he’s never really had to work that hard to be the best player on the pitch.

Once the penny drops we will have some player on our hands with him.

21 Feb 2024 23:18:38
Out of interest what did you see that I missed? I see him as a passenger at the moment, I would prefer blooding and trying the youth as I'm not seeing what he offers thus far .

22 Feb 2024 00:03:29
Danish. Same here mate. I have been critical of Grav but credit where it’s due. He has stepped up his game and offers something. Still some way to go but long may the progress continue.

22 Feb 2024 01:57:21
Same think happened with Wataru and also Macca. People take time to adapt. Usually the club get the right people though and they come good.

22 Feb 2024 04:55:50
He’s 21 old playing in a new league in a new country. Anyone criticizing him this season is a gammon.

{Ed001's Note - but he deserved criticism until the last couple of games. Up until then he had not been working hard enough and ducking challenges, if you don't criticise players for that, then we may as well all give up and accept mediocrity. If he is just not playing well, then that's different. But it wasn't that. I am quite sure Klopp would have been giving him plenty of criticism for those things too, does that mean he is a gammon?}

22 Feb 2024 05:25:30
Thunderbird. Are we really calling people names now? Calling people a gammon by saying he was not performing? Again, it’s like no one is allowed to say anything that remotely resembles a genuine observation. Like, all we want is effort at the very minimum. I think that is fair to say by the standard of any fan set.

22 Feb 2024 07:30:38
Ed01, perhaps we could all have a little bit more faith in the club’s judgement?

They don’t get it right all the time but there is a very high percentage of players signed in recent times (or brought up through the Academy) that seem to be justifying the club’s faith and judgement. For me I’ve been very critical of Nunez and I’m happy to admit that I’m being proved wrong. Perhaps the club are just good at what they do and should be trusted by us a bit more?

{Ed001's Note - You criticised Nunez because he missed a few shots, that is not the same as not putting in effort. But I don't see how any of that is relevant. If you don't want to discuss player merits etc, and instead just want to blindly trust, then why waste my time talking on here? You will have nothing to add of interest and the site would be pointless if we just said it is all great.}

22 Feb 2024 07:32:15
Fans and Eds are always going to warm more to some players than they do others and it’ll never be the same players and opinions will always be different.

Klopp doesn’t pick players to start games in the premier league or CL who are crap and give zero effort as it’s regularly claimed.

Wijnaldum is a prime example for me as he was a huge part of the success during his time but he would get slated for apparently going missing yet Klopp had him as the most used outfield player.

Hendo on the other hand could be argued he went missing in his later years but would be defended because apparently he gave us leadership and would not allow the squad to drop their performance. Something which was evident wasn’t true last season.

Another would be Mane went a few games without a goal and his attitude was questioned. Bobby would go longer without scoring but he was creating space and Mane and Salah couldn’t score without him.

Prior to the last month Jota was always judged differently from Nunez despite then having similar weakness’s and both being absolute goal threats.

The list could go on and on.

{Ed001's Note - Wijnaldum got picked because he was fit all the time, Klopp spent years trying to replace him for a reason. You do realise Mane's attitude has been pointed out as a problem by Milner since Milner left? He has mentioned it many times in interviews. It is not always about who is a favourite. Sometimes it is a genuine reason. And the crap about Jota being judged differently just shows how little you understand of what you read. Jota was not being judged on missed chances, like Nunez is, not hard to understand if you bother to try.}

22 Feb 2024 07:40:04
Running is something every 21 year old should be able to do Thunderbird. He needed to wake up and well deserved his critism. In fact, he bloody well needed the critism.

And if he gets lazy again, I'm ready to call him out again. I ll tolerate a lot aside from laziness. And it wasn't lack of knowledge of the system either. He was jogging back after the ball and not pressing. We should all expect workrate from every player that steps on the pitch regardless of age. It is worrying that he has a lazy trait in him at all but hopefully that's behind him now.

But really happy to see that something might have clicked with him on the workrate stuff.

Also remember, sticks and stones can break your bones, but name calling,

That stuff can last forever! ?.

22 Feb 2024 08:00:06
Pecker, when you say things they happen.

Can you just say we're going to win the league this year.

Thanks in advance.

22 Feb 2024 09:25:45
Ed01 - the level of discussion on here generally takes the form of sound bites based overwhelmingly on short term impressions usually voicing the opinion that we are the best or worst team in the league, history of the club and / or football in the world.

With respect to Nunez, I obviously hadn’t expressed myself correctly. I still don’t think he is a natural finisher there are too many chances were he is impulsive rather than taking a micro second to compose himself. Sometimes his impulse is very good indeed - like the chip at the weekend, oftentimes that feature of his game is poor. The point I hadn’t made clearly was that I didn’t doubt the effort but rather that the effort was wasteful more often than that and in that respect I think I was wrong.

I have absolutely no problem in having a discussion about the strengths and weaknesses of players and, by and large, I have a lot of respect for your informed opinions. I understand that you have had (and voiced) your reservations about us signing Gravenberch from before he went to Bayern but the club wanted him back then and wanted him again when an opportunity arose to sign him last summer. I wasn’t trying to close down the discussion, I was pointing out that people within the club seem to believe (with justification? ) saw something there that would improve the quality in the squad.

At the end of the day, it’s my opinion and should, hopefully, add to a reasoned discussion but, as I say, that is a difficult thing to achieve on here most days, especially when people automatically assume that a different opinion is some form of personal attack.

22 Feb 2024 09:44:33
Ed01, I do remember you saying that Naby was Gini's replacement and then Thiago was brought in to phase out both of them, if I'm not mistaken. For me, I have always said Grav is a young player that is a work in progress but indeed, his lack of effort is pretty glaring. Right now, he is putting more of a shift in and most importantly, knows where to be, when and where to press and know what gaps he should cover. That is progress, IMO.

As to favorites and all that, if you put in the effort, you will always be a fav. of mine. Naby never cared and couldn't be arsed to even be fit for games hence, I lost faith in him. Ox on the other hand, I supported all the way cos he cared and would run for days even tho, things would not come off. Same for Darwin last season.

As for Jota, his effort is not even questionable. All I have ever done is criticise his link up play and that he needed to do better on that front which he has been doing. Always praised him for his goalscoring ability and I NEVER said he should be sold nor that he is a crap player. Just my take.

22 Feb 2024 09:57:31
Davey mate I never gave up on him!

I just needed the lad to believe in himself before I could believe in him as well.

Not very pleased to get called a gammon (based on other peoples reactions), but luckily English isn’t my first language, so I don’t even know if I should be offended. Nonetheless I’ve only every criticized Grav for lack of effort, desire and guts, which I think is fair for a guy on a contract like his no matter his age.

It’s the Naby PTSD that makes me worried. I was over the moon when the club signed him and defended and supported him for way too long. Which made me feel like a gammon (I guess? ) . Ultimately I’m just a guy getting older and feeling more proud of the young lads when they show clear signs of improvement. And that Grav really did last night.

22 Feb 2024 10:04:50
Oh and @Beckers

The reason I’m highlighting the “off the ball” part of his game is that I also believe him to have clear technical attributes and great movement. His biggest on the ball issue, to me, is decision making. Clearly he has something special about him. He just needs to have the desire to convince everyone he is that exciting prospect.

22 Feb 2024 12:47:48
I was only joking Dan-ish. It was a joke on myself as I too have been known to criticise him a little. ?.

22 Feb 2024 12:47:48
I was only joking Dan-ish. It was a joke on myself as I too have been known to criticise him a little. ?.



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