Liverpool Banter Archive July 20 2016

20 Jul 2016 22:42:38
Liverpool will wrap up a deal for Wijnaldum this week, I find this quite mind boggling with no European football and Coutinho, Firmino, Mane, Lallana, Milner, Ojo etc. already competing for attacking midfield positions at the club. I trust in Klopps plan though, I've heard we'll launch a new bid for Chilwell once that deal is wrapped up and that'll be us done for the summer ins. Mixed reports on whether or not Lucas is part of the Wijnaldum deal but either way he now looks certain to leave, Joe Allen is on the way to Stoke then Liverpool will focus on shifting Benteke, Balotelli, Alberto, Markovic and Wisdom. Overall what are peoples opinions of the window as a whole? I'm happy enough but find the Wijnaldum one strange and would've preferred a top left back who's ready to slot straight into the first eleven rather than a young player with potential. Klopp said earlier that the Europa league final had an effect on recruitment and you would wonder which players he was thinking of. I think other teams have had better windows but still feel without European football we can have a great season.

20 Jul 2016 23:38:57
i find it exciting

coutinho firmino mane wijnauldum lallana milner

finally some strength in depth in a key area of the field

send ojo out on loan or keep him around

get rid of everyone else for the role of any position in the three behind the striker.

then kloppo get out and sign kovacic and get rid of allen and lucas.

hendo kovacic emre grujic brannagan

good cm opitions i think

and finally we might start looking like a champions league side

24 players good enough to start . and a bunch of yousters ready to prove their worth if needs be

i think it s very exciting what jurgen klopp is doing.

21 Jul 2016 00:06:11
I agree in that for me, wijnaldum looks a high risk gamble that we don't need to take, especially when the LB position is so defensively weak and a higher priority.
But generally I think klopp has bought well. Grujic looks really promising and will score more goals than, say, henderson (who might be brought on to get more posession in a game when we are already ahead) .
Mane looks more sharp and menacing than lallana usually does, and karius is an upgrade on mignolet in terms of mistakes made.
He has mostly bought players that are an immediate improvement on what we have, or they will be within maybe a year.
They all offer some extra quality that we don't have at the moment (look at mane), and I think that as a team, we will be much more effective going forward- once they all gel together.

21 Jul 2016 03:04:06
They are fighting for 3 positions though. So its not as bad. And of course there is the fact there is a lot of the window left. One or 2 of those players might not be here by the the time window closes.

21 Jul 2016 04:45:47
Are we seriously still going on about this guy - I think he needs his own page Ed.

20 Jul 2016 22:11:30
With clyne unhappy and flanno possibly on loan what will happen there a new right full to replace clyne next season.

20 Jul 2016 22:46:57
Milner?

21 Jul 2016 00:20:12
What is clyne unhappy about?

{Ed007's Note - Pokemon.}

21 Jul 2016 01:47:54
He's just not putting in enough Kilometers if you know what I mean 😂 I see you, ed007.

20 Jul 2016 21:49:26
Medium IF. If we do not sign a LB, as much needed as one is, are there any current youth players capable of converting to LB?

In the past I recall Mike Marsh starting as a forward then pushed back to CM, but recall a game where he played RB and did ok. Didn't we also have Stevie G as a capable full back in his early days? Didn't Steve Finnan play midfield at Bolton before RB?

Square pegs maybe, but some wingers convert to full back etc.

Any well defence minded midfield players that our staff could coach into a strong full back?

20 Jul 2016 22:04:43
It's not going to happen, I've given up on 'youth getting a chance' or 'relying on the youth for cover' I have no hope for that anymore and I just don't think it will happen. We will get a left back don't worry, just one that will probably provide cover for Moreno not displace him.

20 Jul 2016 23:10:22
Alexander-Arnold played RB tonight, has been playing midfield before.

20 Jul 2016 21:32:14
Crewe (on loan)

Ayr United
Partick Thistle
Brighton
Dundalk

Oxford
Aston villa
Ajax
Watford

Newcastle
Oxford

This, for me, is the side that played the most attacking, exciting football I have seen from an LFC side.

There is a real lack of signings from "big clubs" and the players were identified as having the right attitude and outlook to fit into LFC.

Thank goodness we didn't have social media at this time, King Kennynwould have been slated!

20 Jul 2016 21:12:02
I'm slightly concerned now that my hard earned money and safe owners aren't blowing cash on unproven egotistical bell 'ds and overrated past their prime divas.

Hate being a Liverpool Fan through these tough times of consistently being up there with the big spenders of the premier league and European football.

Hate being a Liverpool fan watching some fantastic young talent knocking at the dior for first team place.

As for the manager, well, his inability and track record of paying small transfer fees for pure talent scares the shit out of me.

We're all doomed.

20 Jul 2016 21:43:25
You all rave about Klopp and his ability to get the best out of players. The lad has not even signed, if we sign him, welcome him and give the lad a chance. Prior to signing for Newcastle he had a very good reputation. We lacked goals last season especially from midfield, so hopefully he will chip in more than 10 goals and provide further competition. YNWA.

20 Jul 2016 22:01:46
Scoring goals wasn't the problem, it was conceding soft goals and not holding on to leads mainly through being too weak in midfield and teams just running through us at will.

20 Jul 2016 22:09:45
And yet when Klopp looks to bring in better players (in his mind) we moan and say we'd rather keep Allen or they are blocking the kids coming through.
I don't understand how Klopp thinks that working with players day in day out gives him a better view of their ability than us.
Can't he see that Illori is the new messiah, or that woodburn is ready for the first team now.
His lack of vision is astounding.

20 Jul 2016 22:18:08
This post doesn't make any sense and is a bad attempt at sarcasm. We have overspent on unproven players, we have consistently overspent with very little result. We are up there with the big spenders of European football and have absolutely nothing to show for it, something to be proud of ey, go figure. Young talent knocking on the door, yes but they hardly ever get given a chance and again we are getting players in that are going to completely push back these youngsters, so much for knocking on the door. I rate klopp, but klopp hasn't proven anything yet as Liverpool manager, a lot of you might be very easily impressed just because of his name but I look to results as well as performances. This hysteria is getting more and more embarrassing, you'd think we just won something or didn't finish 8th in the league. Sorry to burst your bubble but posts like these are just as bad as the negative posts.

There are other reasons to be positive rather than these silly sarcastic reasons you listed.

20 Jul 2016 22:57:30
Klopp has proved something in his short spell. We went to Chelsea and Manchester City and stuffed them in their own back yard. We slaughtered a very good Southampton side in their own back yard, then reached 2 finals where we were finally found out.
All of the above achieved with a squad hat wasn't his, and had failed to produce the same results for the previous manager. This club has fallen quite a way off its perch, it won't be an overnight fix but the signs were there last season.
Patience is a virtue.

20 Jul 2016 20:55:25
If we get Wijnaldum I am going to be really annoyed, like seriously were are we going to fit in all these No.10/ attacking mids? Firmino, Lallana, Coutinho and potentially Wijnaldum. I know we haven't signed him yet and we may not but I'll be gutted if we do and I'm not one to slate a player before he even puts on the jersey.

20 Jul 2016 21:30:24
Coutinho probably off then.

20 Jul 2016 21:30:24
Coutinho probably off then.

20 Jul 2016 21:59:40
Maybe it's lallana that's going? Wijnaldum could be seen as more of a squad player.

21 Jul 2016 07:13:11
were not paying £25m for a squad player onceared, maybe one of our attacking midfielders is leaving.

20 Jul 2016 19:48:27
Vocalised my concerns on mane and transfer fee . Never questioned his ability

Wijnaldum? I don't rate him And he doesn't add anything we don't already have
To then pay what's being reported 25plus million irks me. I don't care if guardiola or klopp were to manage him, he's not suddenly going to turn into a top class midfielder.
i hope this is one that we pass on.

20 Jul 2016 20:20:16
Actually, lots of times players show dramatic improvement and go from those considered not up to it to quickly becoming good performers. Sometimes all it takes is a bit of confidence / the right system / a chance etc.

I can think of Harry Kane, Riyad Mahrez, Coutinho and Origi just off the top of my head - I'm sure there's countless more instances of players showing quick improvement after a change.

So stop acting like the oracle and saying he's defo never going to be any good please. Opinion / = fact.

20 Jul 2016 20:25:58
We are doing the same things over and over again while expecting the same results. We are buying players like Benteke, Carroll, Downing and now (I hope not) Wijnaldum, for stupid fees that offer very little if anything to our team and we expect out of no where, for them to become great without looking at their backgrounds or their most recent history. We all know about what happened with Wijnaldum at Newcastle and how inconsistent he was, how he was a quitter, never bothered and never seemed to care if he played well or not as well as a poor attitude. Whether he would pan out or not, no one knows BUT I never wanted Benteke here but I was ready to give him a chance. Klopp can`t work with him. Why? because of his attitude. Same with Carroll, Downing and the rest. Where are they now? Many said benteke wouldn`t work and we have seen it hasn`t. Many are now saying GW won`t work yet we wanna spend big on a player who IMO, wouldn`t make the bench at LFC as Brannagan is even better than him.

20 Jul 2016 20:38:14
Lmao some of you make me laugh
Get behind the manager and the players
An well said puzzled red!

20 Jul 2016 20:44:00
How the hell is Brannagan better than Wijnaldum? When has he ever played in a top league and bossed a game?
Some people need to take the rose tinted off.

20 Jul 2016 21:05:48
One moaner him.

20 Jul 2016 23:00:50
Richie, do you want us to sign chilwell?

And how the hell do you know that Brannagan can't if given the oppertunity. None of our youngsters will ever get good oppertunities if they're are constantly pushed back. Brannagan, ojo and Stewart are ready for first team action but signings like these just make sure they never get the oppertunity, and more often than not, when they fail, that's affected the club and the player.

Also I think you should think about who actually has the rose tinted glasses on and what that expression means.

Also personally, I think our summer has been decent at best. We came into the summer thinking we needed clear improvements to some areas of the first team (GK, LB, CB possibly, CM, winger) have we done that? Maybe. I don't think we have brought in any clear improvements. Karius might be better than mignolet, matip might be better than sahko or Lovren but was seen as a good option with skrtel and toure leaving, mane is a clear improvement on lallana, even though I like lallana he doesn't register the figures he should be and I don't think it will change. All I had a problem with was the fee, for £34m it's not unrealistic to think they're better players out there. Grujic, looks good in preseason, don't really know where he will fit in and that's my big problem with this signing as it smells of a Luis Alberto, Tiago illori, markovic type signing where he never really gets good opportunities and is loaned out and has his career suddenly knocked back. He doesn't get in ahead of can and hendo I wouldn't think, but maybe I'm wrong. Klavan seems a decent 3/ 4th choice centre back who could suprise us, I just feel like it was a bit of a panic buy given our injuries ala caulker and that maybe ilori or wisdom should have been given the chance. Again maybe I'm wrong.

A lot of maybes for me, no doubt I'll be slated for keeping it real and fair, because how dare I question anything klopp does or have a dithering opinion.

21 Jul 2016 08:17:30
Nobodys bothered about opinions Kman we're all entitled to them, i'm not sure about Chilwell as I havnt seen him one bit and i'm not so sure we won't already have someone who is at a similar level, I don't know why you think Klavan will be 3/ 4th choice, trust me I've not seen him loads but enough to know he's as good if not better than Lovren, and Grujic will be a monster for us and he's been promised game time due to his work permit apparently
Im happy with all the business and yes 35 mill seems a lot for mane but in todays prices is it? 15 for unproven ibe, 100 mill for pogba, not really then and its not our money so why worry, also who would you have signed on the wing instead because i don't see that many tearing up the pitch anywhere, mane will do for me
Lets see the season start before we get revved up, you might be surprised.

20 Jul 2016 18:45:14
I think clubs and the media should stop mentioning fees paid. All it creates is what's going on with GW atm, we can all agree the money bandished around for players is crazy. No-one is worth (in our eyes 20mill) but the figures are all relative to the club. We have no idea of the structure of payments or additional bonuses. So let's just take the player on their merits rather than their monetary value. Its not like it's coming out of our banks is it.

20 Jul 2016 17:52:22
I understand people consternation over wijnaldum but its a bit over the top isn't it. Since the news broke some people have gone onto a right meltdown. And seemingly based on the opinion of ed1 who typically does not sit on the fence.

I can't say whether he would be any good or not as i have never seen the lad play a minute of football. If it goes through we will just have to wait and see if kloppo was right or not.

20 Jul 2016 18:24:56
Its not just on one player though is it, it has knock on effects.

1) The financial cost of bringing in a player for that much money for no reason at all

2) The reduction of opportunities for players who deserve it, resulting in stifled development or transfer requests

3) Poor attitude and motivation ruining team spirit and ethic on the pitch, disruptive influence.

20 Jul 2016 18:41:17
But what if the manager doesn't rate who he's got? Do we take over and tell him he's wrong that actually this team of win nothings is superior in every way to anything he could assemble?
Im not obsessed by Hendo etc for me they wouldn't get in any other title challenging sides so i'm trusting the manager to do his job and not berating him over his clearly superior football expertise.

20 Jul 2016 18:51:25
I think some are being harsh on Wijnaldum.
Newcastle is a difficult club to integrate into from abroad, it's a real goldfish bowl there and there is constant disconnect between the passionate fans and a stubborn miserly owner.
On top of that was the manager who was on the board of directors and got sacked far too late to save the club.

This is only his second season in the premier league, I'm prepared to write his first season off as a settling in season. He's a Dutch international, he must have a decent technique on that basis.
If we sign him, show him the famous Kop, get behind him and inspire him. He could turn out to be a bargain.

20 Jul 2016 18:52:09
Agree with 1 and 2 there Woolback. I don't know enough about Wijnaldum to have an opinion on 3.

He might be a fine player, but why do we need another attacking midfielder? I assume we're offloading in that position. Let's say Lallana (just as an example) is going. Should we not re-visit the £20m investment we made in Markovic and give him a chance rather than spend the same again on Wijnaldum? If Markovic's unwilling to chance being benched again and wants to move on too (understandable, imo), should the opportunity not fall to Ojo or Brannagan to appear more regularly?

Our transfer policy over the last few years seems to be to spend massive money on an attacking midfielder every season, despite some of our most promising youth players being attacking midfielders, and the previous big money buys still being at the club. It's nonsensical, imo.

Maybe Coutinho has a move 90% done (although he certainly didn't look like a guy on the move against Fleetwood) and Wijnaldum is his replacement? Best of luck to him, if so. He'll need it.

20 Jul 2016 19:59:06
Here we go daft o'clock again. I hope it is to replace couts as he is nowhere the player you all think he is. If that's all GW has to do is replace couts then I think he'l be a success.

20 Jul 2016 20:42:29
If you all think Wijnaldum can replace Couts then for sure, you are fooling yourselves. We already have a player who can replace Couts in the squad. His name is Firmino and he`s a much better player than Wijnaldum will ever be. This signing makes no sense at all which is why fans are not happy as we have too many mids already and can`t get rid of them fast enough. People say trust Klopp. I can trust someone yet still question his signing of a player everybody knows we don`t need and isn`t good enough. Woolback is spot on. Wijnaldum is a luxury we can`t afford as we are carrying Lallana and Milner who for me, at least one should leave without being replaced. What happens to them? and the youth? Grujic? Don`t tell us no to be unhappy just because you can`t formulate a good argument why we should sign such a bang average player.

21 Jul 2016 00:40:10
Cincy I know firmino is going to become best player in the prem 👌
I can remember when us so called fans knew better than the manager saying how ince would win us the league😄🤔. Or Harry kewell even.

21 Jul 2016 04:02:45
No one is saying to not be unhappy, knock yourself out, just don't understand the hand wringing hair pulling nonsense when clearly none of you have a clue about klopps plans or indeed who is staying and who is going.

You are all basing your objections on second hand opinions and looking like idiots to boot. Constantly attacking players, casting aspertions on their characters, get a grip.

21 Jul 2016 05:32:05
Wijnaldum is, at best, an inconsistent player with a lack of fight in him. I've only seen bits and pieces of him but average is an understatement. We have a squad well stocked with attacking midfielders - Wijnaldum is no improvement on the first team or the squad - if he is a replacement for Coutinho (as some have suggested) I would be even more concerned. On top of that the fee being quoted is nothing short of a joke - £20mil+ for a very average player? Once again we look like we are going to pay a massively inflated fee fora player simply not worth it. This will go down as another terrible signing to add to the list of many we have made in our recent past.

Those saying 'give him a chance' and 'he could be good' what is your reason for this belief? Is this more hope than expectation? Or do you simply think that Klopp can do no wrong and that, if he chooses to sign someone, they will be an inevitable success? I think the club is making the wrong move here - it is worrying that we are signing a lot of players again but not making huge improvement to the first team. Even more worrying is the lack of any full-back (our weakest area by far) and a seeming disintegration in talks over our first choice over £2mil - yet we're happy to splurge £20mil on Wijnaldum. You have to ask questions about how the club is run.

{Ed002's Note - But he runs very quickly.}

20 Jul 2016 17:45:23
I'm amazed this far into the summer no one has mentioned Illaramendi at all.

20 Jul 2016 17:25:48
Warning - the upcoming post contains stats, do not freak out.

I like to keep an open mind about signings and my understanding of Wiji is that he's a pretty talented player. However, being me, I couldn't help but look at some 2015/ 16 numbers and compare him to our other attacking midfielders. The first one is goals scored. Wiji scored 11 times last season, I pretty great return for a non-striker, or was it?

Minutes/ goal:
Firmino - 198; Mane - 236; Couts - 250; Wiji - 288, Lallana - 527.

With the exception of Lallana (come on Adam you really need to be knocking it in the back of the net more often) Wiji's scoring rate is lower than our current options. Next up is chances created as that, in my eyes, is what an AM's primary role is:

Minutes/ Chance created:
Couts - 41, Firmino - 41, Lallana - 43, Mane - 63, Wiji - 66.

Wiji's bottom of the pile for this one. Comparing these stats is probably unfair though as Newcastle were much poorer than Liverpool last season so Wiji's stats are bound to be at least a little deflated. Wiji's work rate has been questioned and Klopp will be expecting him to defend from the front so I thought I'd check how often he attempts a tackle (and how often they're successful) :

Minutes/ Tackle (successful Tackle) :

Firmino - 18 (35); Lallana - 19 (45); Mane - 27 (67); Couts - 27 (69); Wiji - 50 (102).

No surprise that Firmino and Lallana smash this but Wiji's numbers are really disappointing. The last one is interesting, I combined how often they successfully took on an opponent and how often they drew a foul (in other words how often the get the better of their opponents one-on-one), this is more of an individual thing and so a fairer comparison I hope:

Minutes/ Dual won:
Mane - 18; Couts - 26; Lallana - 30; Wiji - 31; Firmino - 31.

My initial thoughts? Mane may be a playa (urban spelling on purpose)! Second of all again Wiji fails to improve on our current players. Everyone says we should trust Klopp (and we haven't really got any choice but to do that have we) but if we don't end up signing him I won't be gutted and, if we do, I hope stats are as irrelevant as everyone else says they are.

20 Jul 2016 17:45:59
TLDR

Also, stats! Really?

20 Jul 2016 17:45:59
TLDR

Also, stats! Really?

20 Jul 2016 18:30:18
Should possibly look to work in touches per game/ time on ball if the data is available to improve your accuracy mate.

20 Jul 2016 18:39:40
I use squawka which I don't think has that level of detail. I'm not really trying to prove anything, just think it's a useful indicator.

20 jul 2016 18:45:59
what about the most relevant stat to prove inconsistency in your attempt to discredit the player and the manager choosing him? he played for a different team to the others and that team got relegated!

20 Jul 2016 19:09:06
Was just for your own personal use! I love statistics also. You should have access to territorial possession, the territorial possession in the opposition half could be used as a good leveler for the chances created also, as it's impossible to create a chance while defending!

20 Jul 2016 20:35:23
L8, appreciate the concern but you've kind of misjudged me. The reason I look at stats is because they're not biased. I don't know if he's good or not so i looked at the stats to get an indication, I think that's better than arbitrarily deciding he'll be a good or bad signing. What I've found is his scoring record wasn't special, he didn't create loads, he doesn't bust a gut to win back possession and his one on one ability isn't great. You can put that in the context of him playing in a poor Newcastle side but that only goes so far.

20 Jul 2016 20:53:21
Don`t need stats. I`ve got my eyes.

20 Jul 2016 21:07:31
Please include stats for :

Financial investment in team
Board level politics
Managerial changes
Team morale
Unrest amongst fan base
Managers football philosophy/ tactics
Quality of team mates
Etc etc.

21 Jul 2016 00:06:34
Did you take into account the number of match days Wijn argued with his missus about her new choice of laundry powder creating static in his kit? It affected his performance three times more often than Llalanas performance was affected by non-indicating geriatrics on the roads to Anfield.
If you're not going to show ALL factors in your stats, they are wholly inaccurate.

20 Jul 2016 17:09:27
Some of you are unreal
We sign an absolute bargain experienced international captain and leader and lots of you think he's only a back up, what? Because of the price? Because youve never bought him on fifa?
I reckon he'll surprise a few, I didn't see us get much past him last year against Augsberg
Go on admit it, nobody knows what Klopps planning and I for one love it, it makes a change from lording all our nonsense to the bbc when there isn't any need
I bet sky sources didn't see Klavan coming, no and i bet a few didn't expect who they got at Dortmund and look how that turned out
Turn it in lads, its boring and we havnt really kicked a ball yet.

20 Jul 2016 18:27:03
Klopp knows him very well. All that needs to be said frankly.

20 Jul 2016 18:33:10
He`s not worth 35m is why I think he's getting grief. City bought Mangala for 32m and wouldn`t even make the stands at LFC. What does that tell you? Money isn`t everything.

20 Jul 2016 18:33:23
Interesting read of both your posts, I have no clue of this guy but does seem you have a point! It really does make you scratch your head when trying to pick our 11 on the first day of the season!

20 Jul 2016 18:50:35
Richie talks a lot of sense. Cincyred has lost the plot of the conversation - hilarious! Keep it up lads!

20 Jul 2016 18:50:38
I've no opinion on the guy, I can only say he looked solid against us in the UEFA cup and at the price paid its a very low risk.

20 Jul 2016 21:03:55
What plot did I lose, L8? Richie made a good post and I made a comment about price (money, one of the things he referred to) not being a yardstick to measure how good a player will be and I used Mangala (awful player, IMO) as an example. Maybe you are the one who`s lost the plot as you didn`t understand my post.

20 Jul 2016 16:17:55
Klavin is to me our new left back was hoping for better.

20 Jul 2016 17:10:15
If that's the case at least we know he can defend lol.

20 Jul 2016 17:22:02
He is clearly a centre back. who can moonlight as a left back in crisis.

20 Jul 2016 18:34:16
Chilwell at LB is still being worked on.

20 Jul 2016 15:04:13
Hello all. I have a few questions. 1 - do you trust Klopp? 2- if GW comes in has a great start and scores a few goals, will all the haters come back on here to say they were wrong?

I personally trust Klopp and think he as good as we could hope for as a manager, If GW comes in I for one will support him and hope he has a great career with us, if not we move him on ( as not all signings work) I remember a lot of people not wanting Mane because of his attitude and the way he acted at soton but that all seems forgotten now.

We do have to remember we are not in europe and didn't do great in the prem last season so we are lucky to be looking at the likes of Mane and GW and half of that is to do with Klopp.

I'll await the bashing!

20 Jul 2016 15:37:08
No bashing from me beasle - great post.

20 Jul 2016 16:07:53
i trust Klopp but do not agree he is the best we could get, but one of the best managers in the world, plus he doesn't bore me half to death with meaningless post match chats. He seems a good and intelligent bloke that will shoulder responsibility and take criticism well on.

For sure he will sign a few players with his time with our club that prove to be not so great, but i trust him to make far more really good ones.

Hope he stays with us for a long time. Love the guy!

20 Jul 2016 20:05:50
What is the point of actually signing Wijnaldum when we have Coutinho, Firmino, Lallana, Mane, Milner, Markovic, Ojo and Brannagan who are all attacking midfielders. Exempting the youngsters, is he significantly better than any of rest of them? No. Is he worth the money that Newcastle want?

No. Do we need him? No, we need a left back and a midfielder who can actually tackle (ie a Gary Medel) . Pointless and frivolous waste of money on a player who hasn't the guile to be a proper number 10 and doesn't have the pace to be a winger and certainly isn't a centre midfielder regardless of what some people would like to believe. Honestly cannot get my head around why we are trying to sign him.

20 Jul 2016 14:41:57
Hi Ed's, a question for edo1 if your about, I know you answered this a while back but concidering the potential signing of wijjnalum and gruic already here, would you expect Henderson, if fit to command a place and keep the captaincy, thanks.

{Ed001's Note - yes.}

20 Jul 2016 15:09:48
Thanks Ed,

{Ed001's Note - welcome.}

20 Jul 2016 14:08:31
Hi Eds, tried the search function, but to no prevail. Would you mind giving us a quick transfer update as you have in the past of players and positions we are actively looking to fill this transfer window. Also players who are on their way out.

Also your opinion on players who you thinkwe should be going after. Thanks again for what you all do, personal curiosity do you guys have donation page to help you guys cover costs of the site. Cheers.

{Ed002's Note - You can read the posts and find everything you need.}

20 Jul 2016 13:33:32
away from all the 'potential' signing of Wijnaldum. I think most people on here think a left back and a midfield enforcer is most needed? if u had a say in who we signed who would you go for (realistic or not so) ed001 feel free to join in my good sir.
mine
left back
1) azplicueta l
midfielder
2) William carvalho.

{Ed001's Note - I would be happy with Chilwell and Medel.}

20 Jul 2016 14:05:14
Alaba and Kante.

I jest. Probably go along with Ed001 here on the realistic signings. Chilwell is highly rated and Medel is a beast. Can't think good midfielder with more steel who is equally realistic.

20 Jul 2016 14:29:16
Chilwell and matic.

20 Jul 2016 13:16:02
Did anyone watch the Leicester pre season game with Oxford United yesterday?

Ben Chilwell played 60 minutes, so he is back from injury. I didn't watch the whole game but he put in some great crosses which should have led to goals.

Obviously can't judge a player returning from injury, in a pre season game, but he did lose his man in the box a couple of times. Still looks a decent enough option with good pace and desire.

20 Jul 2016 13:01:38
Hi Ed001.

What's your opinion on Klavan mate?

Cheers.

{Ed001's Note - I don't remember ever seeing him play, sorry.}

20 Jul 2016 12:32:41
I honestly think klavan is going to surprise a few people and I won't be shocked if he's a starter come the end of the season il probably be lashed out of it for saying it but there you go.

20 Jul 2016 12:57:27
You won't get lashed out mate but come on there are three centre backs I'd have in front of him maybe four if young Joe can get sorted he's there for back up and back up only if you are right and he is a starter we need to have a look at recruitment for paying nearly 40 million for two of our four centre backs.

20 Jul 2016 13:14:45
I'm pretty convinced that he's a low cost insurance policy brought in because we have injury concerns at CB. It would be a pleasant surprise if he turned out to be first 11 material but I don't think it's likely.

20 Jul 2016 13:41:44
Apparently he can play LB mate, so I think there may be a chance he nailed down that spot from Moreno/ Chilwell.

20 Jul 2016 12:05:31
The inevitable seems to be happening, the end of the world is near.

For someone who sees no difference between theology and mythology, I might just start making room for folklore or magic.

I hereby demand a petition that commands the jinx-master, also known as Ed01, to never utter a name of any player that he sees unfit to wear the red jersey. Any future utterances should be categorically refused by the powers of heaven. I might even go to the extent of banning or temporarily metamorphosing any daring poster into a creature befitting Zeus' sensibilities.

Though sadly, It's been proven over and over again, the powers at LFC have an agenda with our dear editor.

But as the leprechauns in my backyard bare witness, I still hold Ed01 solely responsible for the travesty of the past week. ; )

Cheer up guys and save your positive energy for this coming season that will be full of surprises if not drama.

{Ed001's Note - have you been out in the sun by any chance??}

20 Jul 2016 12:10:13
Good afternoon Eds and reds

What would you realistically expect from the season ahead?

I would be hoping for a third place finish and a cup but do think the top four will be a lot harder this year with some of the business been done by clubs.

YNWA.

20 Jul 2016 12:20:22
Win the league at least.

20 Jul 2016 13:29:50
We'll be mid table because we are too weak in centre midfield. No trophies either. That's a realistic forecast for next year.

20 Jul 2016 14:38:02
I expect us to be in the Champions League by the end of the season.

20 Jul 2016 14:43:38
Mate u really should take Shankly out of your name if you think like this pre season.

20 Jul 2016 14:49:36
You can tell morrisey is frankleys hero by his upbeat posts! 😉.

20 Jul 2016 16:18:40
Well I'm nailing this firmly to the mast Defo top 4,100% but if I was a betting man I'd have to say top 2. Remember you heard it here 👌🍻.

20 Jul 2016 18:56:55
Win every trophy, every match, every 50-50, every header, every coin toss, every drop ball and every throw-in.

20 Jul 2016 12:01:03
Thoughts on Wijnaldum, I'm not sure I get it but I remember Tevez and Mascherano looked pretty lazy/ average at West Ham.

20 Jul 2016 12:08:23
Tevez and Mascherano helped keep West Ham up.

20 Jul 2016 12:26:28
Masherano hardly played, Tevez fair enough!

20 Jul 2016 12:30:15
Tevez and Masch were already highly rated in South America before coming to the PL. because a clueless manager like Pardew played Hayden Mullins ahead of Masch proves nothing. Beckenbauer already wanted Tevez at Bayern and once compared him to Diego based on the way he could never get bundled off the ball.

20 Jul 2016 11:27:14
I for 1 don't find the logic in signing wijnaldum but if Klopp want him then I'm all in for him.

20 Jul 2016 10:35:08
edo1this isn't good news on the Newcastle lad why would we pay over 20 mil for him when are first choice targets if we stumped up what the 2 clubs wanted wouldn't even come to much over the price for this needless player who is accountable for this its redicoulus now we still need a lb and are younger players are going to be pissed.

{Ed001's Note - because the manager wants him. We just have to hope he is making the right decision.}

20 Jul 2016 11:27:45
I am pretty sure your hoping big time Ed01. If i am right he is not your favourite player to say the least. Not mine either, although with Klopp i do not doubt he can get far more out of him than other managers have managed.

20 Jul 2016 12:32:02
We better hope he knows what he's doing because if he screws this one up the way he did with signing a poor average player like Caulker and giving a poor GK in Migs a five year deal, then he will be all on his own.

20 Jul 2016 10:24:16
A couple of days ago I posted about how I didn't think the Wijnaldum rumours were anything serious, that now seems to have changed with Ed1 thinking it is going to happen. The reason I doubted it (other than Ed1 doubting it) was that it didn't fit the profile of the sort of player it was my understanding we were looking for. I thought we were in the market for a first choice left back and a squad central midfielder to replace Allen. So how does Wiji (his new de facto nickname) fit in to Klopp's plans?

(Note the following comes from a web resource, I do not claim to be familiar with Wiji as a player)

Is he the back up CM instead of Zielinski? This seems really unlikely, Wiji's cost and profile are far higher than Zielinski's so it's hard to think he'll be coming in to sit on the bench. Then there's the fact that positionally they seem to be different players, Zielinski played exclusively last season on the right hand side of a flat midfield three. Wiji made his name at PSV playing left of centre as an attacking player with a defensive midfielder behind him. Last season at Newcastle he played a predominantly attacking role and had the majority of his success playing on the left flank. He played a few games in a midfield 2 (a la Hendo/ Can) but Newcastle failed to win a single match when he did.

If he's not instead of Zielinski we're in uncharted territory. Is he coming in as a squad player or will he be a regular starter? An ex-Dutch player of the season costing £20m+ could be expected to go straight into the team but it is becoming increasingly common to pay huge transfer fees on squad players, Utd, City and Chelsea have been doing it for years. Are Liverpool now in that category? Possibly but my instinct is that if he comes Wiji will expect to play.

As I alluded to I don't think he's a Can/ Hendo replacement. It's possible that he's an addition to those two, Wiji made his name in a midfield three, it's possible that Can would be the holding player with Hendo and Wiji linking in front of him. That would see Klopp move away from his preferred formation though so I'd expect Wiji's most likely position to be one of our three AMs behind the striker.

Watching videos it appears that Wiji's style is to use close control to keep possession and take opposition players out of the game. Our current players who mostly match that profile are Coutinho and Lallana. Given that Wiji has predominately plays on the left flank though he comes into direct competition with Couts. This is where my alarm bells start ringing. It appears that we're buying a player who we didn't realise we needed who has a similar style and plays in a similar position to our star player. We've known for sometime that Liverpool's current profile does not match Coutinho's ambition and we know there have been whispers that Barcelona and, more likely, PSG have been looking at him. Is this a signal that Coutinho is off and we're sorting out his replacement before it's announced?

I hope not but it does seem the most plausible explanation. Wiji is a good player, 11 goals and 5 assists last season and the Dutch player of the season the year before are testament to that. Whether he's good enough to be Couts' replacement is another matter all together.

20 Jul 2016 10:44:45
If he's Coutinhos's replacement then we're stuffed. Not as bad as replacing Suarez with Balotelli but we'll be going backwards not forwards.

20 Jul 2016 10:53:38
Nice post. Well written with all the questions, and a lot of info on the player.
I feel that 20mil isn't that high a price anymore. Players that go to the "bigger" sides to be starting players range from 30mil to 85mil, even more at times (Pogba maybe) .
I would feel a lot more confident this season knowing that we have competition for vital places.
Sturridge/ Ings/ Origi competing for 1 place.
Firmino, Coutinho, Mane, Lallana, Ojo, Milner and possibly Wijnaldum and youth players competing for 3 attacking mids.
Can/ Henderson/ Grujic/ maybe Wijnaldum again plus youth and whoever else comes in.
That's healthy competition, with any combo of those players looking like a strong 1st 11. And that I think, is the difference of a top 4 side.
We have to stop thinking about just our favoured starting 11, and look at players that will push to be in a starting 11.
As well as subs coming off the bench that would keep the strength.
I think we would get a left back before the window closes.

20 Jul 2016 12:23:27
Good post, muscat.

Certainty is an illusion for sanity.

20 Jul 2016 13:06:45
Muscatred, thank you for this post, proves a point I've been trying to make on wijnaldum. Good player but not needed especially if he's being brought in centrally, I mean we would be an open book if that was to happen.

20 Jul 2016 09:45:50
Wijnaldum and klavan seem pointless signings.

We have no European football this season so if ever there was a time to trim the squad its now.

Someone else has mentioned spending money for the sake of it. well your bang on.

If we can't get the quality we want then let's go with what we have.

I think matip, karius and mane will be quality players along with ings coming back.

Lets save the money until next season with CL football.

20 Jul 2016 10:01:04
Must admit I am very confused if we sign Wijnaldum. I do get klavan we do have rotten injury luck, but sogning wijnaldum to me means we must be losing someone, probably Coutinho.

20 Jul 2016 10:01:09
Thing is, we are short of a quality defensively minded midfielder and we are short of a competent left back. Yet we're going after a player who was awful last year and plays in a position we're already well stocked for. If we have £27 or so million to throw at Wijnaldum but not for Chilwell and Medel then you may as well write next season off as well as we're just repeating the same mistakes over and over again yet expecting different results.

20 Jul 2016 10:05:44
Just to add i have maintained all along that we should trust Klopp, he is proven success and has already taken us to 2 finals! But i will be depressed if Moreno remains as our firsr choice LB.

20 Jul 2016 10:09:39
Yeah, like Arsenal, only sign if better then what they have or top potential.

I think both will do well and Klopp should be able to create his own squad, but neither seem to have been first choices and it looks to us like they'll hold back youngsters. But Klopp seems to give chances and if you're good enough.

If these two and anyothers coming in give us a better chance of always fielding a top quality 11 and push us to a title then it'll be money well spent. Outside the top four and no cups, we can all discuss that if it happens.

20 Jul 2016 11:00:52
A lot on here want flano to start at right back, yet, he impressed at left back the season before his injury. So could he not be our 1st choice left back for next season?
Do we play with a defensive mid? I don't think that's the plan. So wouldn't us spending on a defensive mid be more of a waste of money? Rather have competition for a formation we play in.

20 Jul 2016 12:22:07
I disagree mate, I think they will add something to the team. However I beleive with Klopp going for Wijnaldum something more is going on in the background, maybe coutinho is off? I don't know, maybe its just me.

20 Jul 2016 13:17:09
Andy, our problems in midfield last season cost us points, almost as much as our problems at left back and GK, it's up to the midfield to stop impending counter attacks at the source and a lot of the time we where easily penetrated through the middle because we didn't have a defensive minded midfielder that can tactically read the game well enough to deal with this. Lucas when fit and on form was arguably our most important player at times, because we are that much better with him in the team, however Lucas does not produce enough going forward and is consistently injured meaning he never really stays in that form for long periods of time. Same way we miss Henderson when he is out, because he adds something to the midfield that can doesn't but for some reason a lot of fans do not see it and just overrate can who is a good young player but isn't at the level everyone is holding him at. To improve on last season we need a better player than the two of them or at least someone that can add something defensively, otherwise we will have much of the same problems from last season.

20 Jul 2016 09:21:24
Eds do you think Brannagan will be sent on loan now that GW looks to be a done deal? Be a shame I rate him and thought this would be a real breakthrough season for him at the club.
Cheers.

{Ed001's Note - he was not expected to go on loan.}

20 Jul 2016 09:32:22
They're completely different players. Wijnaldum is a goal scorer. Brannagan is a playmaker. It is not remotely related to Brannagan or his potential gametime.

{Ed001's Note - still play similar positions, so yes he is related to his potential gametime.}

20 Jul 2016 09:57:28
It would be another kick in the teeth for our promising youngsters, Ed do you think this makes our kids think "why bother trying to get in first team" or do you think this makes them think "im now going to go all out to prove i'm better"

{Ed001's Note - it depends on the kid. It also can make them look to move.}

20 Jul 2016 10:03:24
MK they're both attacking midfielders and do play in a similar role. So of course it would effect Brannagans chances. You seem to have this idea that Wijnaldum is a centre midfielder which he isn't, if he plays there for us, heaven help our defenders because he is incapable of giving any protection to them.

20 Jul 2016 10:17:24
I haven't once stated that Wijnaldum plays in central midfield. However I do think that is where Brannagan is best.

Wijnaldum, as I have repeatedly said, is best behind a striker as an attacking midfielder. Alternatively he can play on either flank, although I don't rate him as a wide player.

I have to disagree Ed001. Brannagan for me is competing with Henderson, Can, Stewart and Chirivella primarily; and possibly Grujic who like Brannagan can also play further forward.

Whereas Wijnaldum will compete with Coutinho, Firmino, Lallana, Milner, Mane, Ojo etc.

If Wijnaldum is being signed to play as a part of the deeper 2 man midfield and not the attacking midfield trio, then I will be worried. Wijnaldum is a goal scorer. That is his main quality as a player. Putting him in the team as an actual midfielder, with major defensive responsibility would seem like suicide to me!

I severely doubt signing Wijnaldum will completely block off Brannagan's path to the first team as he is versatile enough to play anywhere in midfield. Brannagan can play as either of the deeper 2 midfielders but also as any 3 of the attacking midfielders. Therefore if he is good enough, he will get game time.

{Ed001's Note - sorry but every time you buy a player, it makes it more difficult to give a youngster a game. It is simply wrong to suggest otherwise. We needed to trim the squad, we all know that, instead we are increasing it again.}

20 Jul 2016 11:52:09
There lies a good point, maybe we are trimming the squad more than people think, so therefore the need for georgie is more evident, just another thought process!

20 Jul 2016 08:57:17
Not too sure with this Wijnaldum deal, I think he's a decent player with a goal in him but with 4 strong attacking midfielders and a promising talent in Ojo (who I'd like to see get game time this season) personally I'd like this money spent on a world class left back.
But I do trust in Klopp and it could turn into a good signing.

20 Jul 2016 08:08:21
Transfer window is always an emotional roller coaster. Will we get the players we want? Will a name we've even heard of lead us to joy or despair or will some guy from another league whose name I can't pronounce or spell come out of nowhere?

The constant though is that it leads to a new season of football and that is why we are here.

Tickets are available to purchase tomorrow for the first half of season fixtures. Does anybody have a strategy on the best way to pick up some tickets for the games?

20 Jul 2016 07:13:52
Hi eds

I know Wijnaldum is primarily an attacking midfielder and it seems likely that Mane, Firmino and Coutinho will be the 3 behind the striker. In your opinion do you see Klopp playing him as a number 8 instead of Hendo?

Or do you think he will be a super sub coming on when we need a more attacking approach or to replace one of the attacking 3 behind the striker?

Just seems that our back 4 would be more exposed playing him as a number 8.

{Ed001's Note - he will be an option in a number of positions. It is up to him to make a case to play where as first choice. Unless PSG come back for Couts, in which case it is obvious where he will end up.}

20 Jul 2016 07:38:34
Don't write off Adam L!

20 Jul 2016 09:25:53
Is that you, Adam?

20 Jul 2016 12:14:53
Do you expect psg to come back in for couts?

20 Jul 2016 05:30:16
I have not been on the site for a couple of weeks. Actually i gave up when we went out and spent top bucks on Mane. I was pretty much against it. ( it does not matter though) . He was certainly not the player i wanted at LFC but well manager decided to put the hammer on the deal. Now after absorbing the shock of that signing and coming back to my fav site ever i see now we are involved with wijnaldum. I really think Klopp is trying to be too clever. These aren't players we need. I pray to the old gods and new seven gods that wijnaldum ( if he is signed) is not a coutinho replacement.

{Ed001's Note - he is just acting on the spur of the moment in this case. This is not a player we have targeted, but, after being rejected in attempts to get our targets we were offered him and Klopp is taking a chance.}

20 Jul 2016 06:42:21
So are we looking to bring in wijnaldum because we missed out on zielinski, or because we missed out on Gotze? because I would have thought mane was an alternative to Gotze and if we missed out on zielinski we would target another central midfielder not another attacking midfielder.

{Ed001's Note - maybe it shows where he intends to play him. Or intended to play Zielinski.}

20 Jul 2016 07:25:02
Personally no fan of Gotze glad we missed out!

20 Jul 2016 08:04:48
Ed1, is your understanding that this is actually close to happening?

{Ed001's Note - sadly, yes. No idea why, but Klopp wants to sign him. About time we worked on some outs, and a left back, rather than kept clogging up the squad. I really do not understand why we would not just use Branagan.}

20 Jul 2016 08:11:44
But ed isn't that dangerous. This way it would not help Liverpool and especially the youth we have to play in those positions. Klopp loves to train his players and demands lots from them both Mane and wijnaldum have been players who have had training issues at previous clubs. This isn't really rocket science, these players will just put pressure on Klopp and create a suffocating environment in the dressing room. acting on a spur is great at times but it isn't this time. Sadio mane and wijnaldum might have ample stats to support them but they are really not upgrades on what we have. Some one has to stop Liverpool wasting money. and we have already seen how difficult it is to offload players for us. Well if klopp wishes it so be it and would back the player as he is wearing the shirt. although i do wish something comes up and we keep away.

{Ed001's Note - I am not happy with the way it is going. We are supposed to be trimming the squad, not increasing it.}

20 Jul 2016 08:42:48
They must have some inklings of players leaving eds surely? I don't want it to happen but if PC goes these signings begin to make a little more sense. If we get big bucks for him at least we'd have bought his replacements before we et held to ransom (although perhaps we've already paid way over the odds anyway?! )
I'm with you on one of your other posts though, identify a player, scout him and done mess his club about, pay up. We've been accepting 2nd choices for a few years now and even our 1st choices seem to take months to happen as we quibble over £2m on a £30m deal.

{Ed001's Note - even if Coutinho goes, we have a ton of players for this area of the pitch. It makes no sense, unless we are offloading 3 or 4 from this area.}

20 Jul 2016 12:17:39
Why would Klopp think he needs Wijnaldum? Who's starting spot do you suspect he will give to Wijnaldum? I don't want to write the guy off but it just seems bizarre.

20 Jul 2016 02:27:31
Am I the only person that gets sick of so called supporters slagging off potential signings before we have even bought them or seen them in action? let's take a brief look at our history when we rules Europe.

Kevin Keegan signed from Scunthorpe, hardly a champs league team, Ray Clemence coming from the same club.

Mark Lawrenson coming from Brighton, Ian Rush from Chester, more recently Sami Hyypia from Willem II or Dan Agger from Brondby.

These are all players that started out lower class teams but became legends in their own time.

I will not slate new players brought in, they have been identified for a reason and I will give Klopp the chance to make these players identified and bought into the club the chance to prove their worth to us.

I just get annoyed when I see a player slated before even kicking a ball for us in anger, yes we are all allowed an opinion, but for Christ's sake, give them a chance to show us what they have before writing them off.

Gini Wijnaldum has not even signed yet, but some people are seeing this as a disaster.

Lets take a reality check, we are not the pull we were years ago, we have no Euro football to attract anyone and those we do sign will have come to get us where we want to be, not where we are now.

Just give them a fair chance is all I ask.

Rant over.

20 Jul 2016 07:16:13
So £27m for a player who couldn't be bothered last year and is in a position we're well covered for is good business then?

20 Jul 2016 08:02:43
Difference is Grinchy that all of those players you mentioned were players that were widely accepted and recognised as being highly talented and could succeed at the highest level, Wijnaldum failed that test last year, he was really poor.

20 Jul 2016 12:14:32
If klopp thinks it's good business then I support the decision.