Liverpool Banter Archive July 27 2016

27 Jul 2016 22:11:47
Ed002, I know you said clyne may be sold if an offer comes in, but do you know who we are scouting as a replacement if a decent bid comes in?

{Ed002's Note - I understand that Liverpool expect him to stay as it stands now.}

28 Jul 2016 06:51:40
What exactly is Clyne unhappy about?

28 Jul 2016 07:52:56
He pays too much attention to transfermarkt and thinks he's the best right-back in the world, but nobody else does.

28 Jul 2016 08:06:37
I heard he was given a cup of tea with the cheaper tea bags which didn't go down well. Getting a big head like yayas birthday strop.

27 Jul 2016 18:44:11
Hi Eds,

Now that Liverpool have been fined €16k for the crowd disturbances during the Europa League final, does that mean all of the transgressions that Liverpool were pulled up over last season have now been dealt with? Or are there still incidents O/ S which still need to be dealt with by the governing bodies?

Just trying to work out if there are any further punishments in the pipeline.

Thanks

Z.

{Ed002's Note - None at the moment.}

27 Jul 2016 20:00:46
Thanks 002, that's a relief, for now!

27 Jul 2016 20:02:10
As usual a lot of fuss was made out of nothing.

27 Jul 2016 21:33:56
At the moment Ed 2!? You foresee more?
Appreciate and thanks.

27 Jul 2016 21:36:00
£16k? Really just that?

27 Jul 2016 19:18:59
I am so pleased with the new signings Klipperty has made (apart from GW I hope I'm proved wrong) No more square pegs in round holes as per the Rogers era we are actually buying and selling sensibly. If Mane stays injury free I think he will be our player of the season really liked him at Southampton and uber pleased he's ours. Karius will be a revelation i saw him play in the Bundesliga a few times last season and he was quietly effective, I suppose that's how you want your keepers to be. And whose to say Grujic can't be our Deli Ali? Coupled with the awesome talent we already have Firminho, Sturridge, Couts etc we could easily better our top 8 finish from last season! I predict we will finish 4th and win a cup. let's start by beating the plastics later. Allez Le Rouge!

27 Jul 2016 21:51:00
I agree looks like good business. Don't know much about karius but trust klopps judgment. I thought we should have signed mane when saints got him and I think GW will prove to be a good signing too Newcastle was the wrong team for him but he could thrive at Liverpool maybe not as a Week in week out starter but he is a good as any player we have had in the past to make a decent impact off the bench and a good replacement for any injuries we will pick up through the season.

27 Jul 2016 22:30:46
i have followed the dutch league for quite some time and i can tell you. that boy is special. how he performed at Newcastle? I don't know. but what i know someone doesn't lose talent in months. Where does he fit in our team? I don't know what klopp plans. but if klopp sees him as an attacking cm to replace either can or hendo then he is spot on. Neither can nor hendo can offer better then GW when it comes to producing "goods" in the final third.

27 Jul 2016 23:58:02
Can was one of our best players last season! Does anybody actually watch Liverpool playing or just come on here in the hope we are selling our entire team and buying a full squad of players?

28 Jul 2016 01:33:20
I thought it was off already. The amount of creativity some have to turn things into points to bash these players are really admiring.

27 Jul 2016 17:12:25
Seen that bestikas want balo. Hopefully this will be the end of the ballotelli saga.

27 Jul 2016 17:23:19
You can bet your life savings that they will want Liverpool to pay most of his wages .

27 Jul 2016 18:36:34
And release him on a free.

27 Jul 2016 18:45:21
How many years does he still have left on his contract?

27 Jul 2016 20:16:38
This is his final year after (plus an option for one more which will not be picked up) .

28 Jul 2016 03:48:33
he's on 90k they will at least pay 65k.

27 Jul 2016 16:32:15
Just saw Andre Ayew has been linked today. Not sure what to think of this one since I think we have plenty of strikers/ attacking midfielders already. On the other hand I have read reports in the past that he wanted to play for us so much that he offered to play for 6 months without taking a wage.

I always like the idea of having Liverpool fans playing for the club but with Ayew I'm not sure if he has the quality to play for us or if he is needed. I just hope the likes of Ayew/ Wijnaldum are not considered as replacements for coutinho.

27 Jul 2016 20:17:18
Sure, nother attacking midfielder. Awesome.

27 Jul 2016 21:58:30
Just really what we don't need. Another AM and he is much lesser ability wise than what we already have. We try his best but rather give youth a shot than sign players that we REAALLYYY don't need.

27 Jul 2016 14:41:49
Eds how's things? Do you see it as a good or bad thing that Liverpool aren't taking part in the EFL trophy? I can only see it was bad myself as it's competitive football for the youngsters.

{Ed001's Note - I don't know enough about it to have an opinion.}

27 Jul 2016 18:42:54
Isn't it the case that we (and others) declined our places because our youth squads will be decimated during the rounds which clash with international youth football?

27 Jul 2016 18:44:34
At the moment I care more about us winning a trophy again soon, rather that playing homegrowns to be fair. I would love some scouse blood in the team, but if the quailty ain't there, it just don't make any sense.

27 Jul 2016 14:16:43
I hope this winter break stuff is rubbished.

The biggest problem we have in English football is too many games coming at once. Squeeze in a winter break and then there will be an even bigger fixture pile up at some point. You may save the players 2 weeks to rest, but you'll kill them in May when they have a game every 2 days just to squeeze all the fixtures in!

Look at all the top leagues; Spain, Germany, Italy, France etc. How many teams to they have in the top flight? 18. That may seem a minor difference but that is 4 less league games a season wiped off your calendar. There is your winter break!

Then you have the cup competitions. Premier league teams usually end up playing at least 1 or 2 games in each Cup competition. Why do we have 2 cups? Again, go to Spain, Germany etc and they have 1 domestic cup! Get rid of the league cup and there is another 2 games gone. So you will save a Premier league team 5 games a season at least just by making these changes. That may not seem like much but over a standard 40 game season that is about 12% of the games eradicated. For a team that goes far into the cups and/ or plays in Europe it is still cutting their tally by about 8-10%.

I am not sure what the other countries do about replays but that is another thing that needs to change about the FA cup. A cup game should be settled on the day. ET, then penalties. End of. None of this replay nonsense.

Maybe if all this happens, English top flight football will make room for a winter break. The lower tier leagues though have 24 teams per division and the bottom 2 pro-divisions have to contend with yet a 3rd domestic cup, in the Johnstones Paint Trophy (or whatever it's called now) .

So what will a winter break do to them? Teams in league 2 cannot be expected to play 46 league games, compete in 3 domestic cups and then still cram in a winter break. When the fixtures pile up they will have an injury nightmare that they aren't equipped (squad wise) to deal with!

This is a non starter. Winter break? Give it a rest, English football doesn't have time for a winter break, unless they drastically reduce the number of competitions, and the number of professional teams.

In my opinion there should be 4 tiers with 18 teams in each division and then the FA cup only. Maybe keep the Paint Trophy for the lower divisions so they can still get some silverware, and the community shield as it's a pretty good event to kick off the season and only 1 game.

This all stems from English teams, TV networks, sponsors and the FA being greedy. They want as many games as possible so they can milk the fans for every last penny. So sadly, this will never change and thus a winter break will never be viable.

27 Jul 2016 14:47:55
Bang on MK.

27 Jul 2016 14:54:42
Increase the squad sizes - more players to play more games. The youngsters and Balotellis would get more of a look in playing in the cups. I have no problem watching Liverpool play twice a week all season if we had a few more players.

27 Jul 2016 14:58:51
Personally, I think teams in the Champions League or Europa League shouldn't be entered into the League Cup.

27 Jul 2016 15:01:44
MK

Agree with you. It's ridiculous.
But I think it's Big Sam pushing for it and possibly trying to stamp his authority on the English game.
I hope it never happens personally.

27 Jul 2016 15:31:36
Spain, France and Italy have 20 teams in the top flight.

27 Jul 2016 15:57:23
My Mistake Kman, and well spotted. However my point that there is still too many games in English football is not really dented by the fact 3 other leagues also have 20 teams. Those leagues still have less cup competitions.

The Europa League is another farce. It loses all legitimacy when the Champions league drop outs join at the first knockout stage. Just extra games heaped on more teams.

Football is now putting money ahead of the health of the players and also the entertainment value.

It's boring watching two tired teams crippled by injuries and missing key players.

I also have to disagree that bigger squads would solve anything. The English clubs are already spending well beyond their means and racking up debts they will take years to clear. Doubling the wage bill will just compound that and make it much harder for kids to get a game.

English football needs to be changed massively in order to make a winter break viable.

Personally, I think this is all stemming from an England manager already trying to make excuses before he's even stepped foot in the dugout.

27 Jul 2016 16:03:58
Excellent post MK! I very seldom don't agree with any of your posts.

27 Jul 2016 18:50:46
I think a winter break is necessary. Personally I'd cancel the League Cup (or cancel Premier League teams' entry into it) and have the break for 10-14 days before Christmas, starting again with the Boxing Day games (which I'd be loathe to lose) . The FA Cup only starts for Prem teams in January anyway so is irrelevant to the break, it'd require fitting 3 or so games which were rearranged before Christmas into the rest of the schedule. Probably 2 before the break and 1 afterwards because of the space freed by the cancelling of the League Cup. I wouldn't have a winter break in the rest of the divisions, only the Prem. Personally I agree RE the Football League structure, though I think 20 in the Prem should be the case, I'd reduce the other 3 divisions to 20 teams each, reducing their league schedule by 6 games.

27 Jul 2016 19:11:42
Some good ideas Totti. Very good post.

I can see how a winter break would be beneficial, but games need to be cut down to make room for it. As you say, cancelling the league cup would free up a lot of time to reschedule the matches that would usually be played during the winter break.

It'd be careless to just dump a break in though. It will just cause a bigger fixture pile up, less rest in between games and would make my Christmas Holidays boring!

27 Jul 2016 19:16:46
Bundesliga has 18 teams
Bpl, Serie a, liga bbva and ligue 1 all have 20 teams.

27 Jul 2016 19:36:52
Yes MK, just putting one in with the same amount of games would be a big mistake, the amount of games is bad enough as it is without reducing the time we have to play them. I guess they could start the season 1 or 2 weeks earlier, but frankly the League Cup only gets people interested at the semi stage, and some people not at all.

27 Jul 2016 13:08:33
Question for anyone who knows, we seem to have some ex players given the role of LFC Ambassadors who although gave us some great moments such as Gary Mac (that sucker goal against Everton still makes me laugh) didn't represent the reds for that long. Steve Finland or Stig Inge Bjornebye played for us for years and would bring some great stories and LFC experience to the role where as Gary seemed more of a Leeds legend? How does the club select the new ambassadors.

27 Jul 2016 13:20:00
Steve finnan?

27 Jul 2016 14:26:19
I think Steve Finland is the love child of Steve Finnan and Sami Hyypia ;)

27 Jul 2016 14:43:36
Maybe they don't want roles?

27 Jul 2016 16:26:24
Clearly don't appreciate gary mac. We all love that goal against everton but it was everything else about his fairytale 2 years with us. You could see how much he loved playing for us and was a fantastic influence on the younger players. Plus another reason he's an ambassador is because he got humiliated within about 3 weeks of being appointed within Brenda's back room staff.

27 Jul 2016 16:57:52
Predictive text and lack of proof reading led to Steve Finland instead of Finnan. I really like what Gary Mac brings and the way he coached the players through those two years is something Stevie G could of learnt from. I just wondered how they go appointed, who made the decision?

27 Jul 2016 12:46:33
Eds, what will it take for Allan to receive his work permit to play in England. I've heard good reports of him and klopp has said good things, does the season in Germany strengthen his case or is it a case of if he makes the national 1st team and plays regularly? again great job u guys and of course girls do on here.

{Ed002's Note - He doesn't meet the criteria at the time of his move nore the new criteria. An argument for an exception can be made and that would certainly be strengthen by appearing regularly for Brazil.}

27 Jul 2016 13:19:25
Hi ed002. I'm not sure if he is even selected, but would Allan playing for Brazil in the Olympics strengthen his case for a UK work permit?

{Ed002's Note - Yes but it alone would not be enough, and as he has not been picked it is of no consequence.}

27 Jul 2016 13:56:30
Cheers ed002.

27 Jul 2016 12:42:32
Hey fellow reds,

I am really interested to get everyones views on Klopps first choice back 5.

I personally think Karius will be first choice GK

New full back first choice LB (Moreno cannot be first choice for sure)

Clyne first choice RB

Matip first choice center back

The only dilemma is who will be the other first choice CB. Lots of people think its Lovern but did he do enough last season to prove he's very good? plus i like the look of Klavan looks like a no nonsense type of player.

27 Jul 2016 13:11:43
It will be: karius

Clyne matip sakho chilwell

Henderson wijnaldum

Mane firmino coutinho

Sturridge.

27 Jul 2016 13:17:59
firmino11,

The team is built around Can and where is he in your team?

27 Jul 2016 13:39:13
Where's Can? And how can you say "it will be"? Are you klopp in disguise?

27 Jul 2016 13:44:21
In my opinion it will be;

Karius vs Migs
Clyne vs Gomez
Matip vs Lovren
Sakho vs Klavan
Amavi vs Moreno

If he leaves, hopefully Clyne is replaced with a better player.

Impossible to say who will be first choice, but I have a feeling Klavan may eventually displace Sakho. Mama will get injured, Klavan will step in, and then the team will just settle without Sakho in it.

The main issue with Matip is that he will go to the ACON in January, so Lovren will have to take his chance that month to prove he should be starting.

27 Jul 2016 14:34:10
Midfield is too weak without Can.

27 Jul 2016 17:21:46
As I've said before I don't think there will be a set first team. The whole team will change from game to game, depending on tactics, opponents etc. Karius I think will be no.1 GK but the rest will constantly change in my opinion.

28 Jul 2016 17:32:13
Can is not good enough I'm afraid, hasn't improved since he pulled on the red shirt, let henderson be the engine in the middle! I can guarantee that will be the team if chilwell signs soon!

27 Jul 2016 12:17:39
I have been reminiscing; instead of working and thinking who the best player i have ever watched has been.

The shortlist is:

. Maradonna
. Original Ronaldo (before he got fat)
. Suarez

These are players who got me out of my chair, or jumping in the stand.

Any thoughts from you guys? Who are your best?

27 Jul 2016 13:08:28
Fowler.

27 Jul 2016 13:14:45
Suarez and Ronaldiho.

27 Jul 2016 13:16:01
Dalglish, Gerrard, Suarez, Barnes, in a red shirt. World wide Maradona Messi Ronaldinho.

27 Jul 2016 13:03:34
Maradona the best of those three . he is the best ever player in my opinion. Even better than Pele, cryuff and messi. Then Suarez, very closely followed by pre fat ronaldo.

27 Jul 2016 13:06:13
Maradonna a little before my time so my only concrete memory was of him scoring that goal at USA '94 and celebrating like he'd had a noseful - to which it was confirmed by drug tests immediately after the match.

Brazilian Ronaldo was on another planet for me, complete forward with every single tool in his locker to score and make defenders lives hell - and to think he suffered a number of very serious injuries in his career and still bounced back - incredible player and probably the best I ever saw.

Personally I've always had a soft spot for Ronaldinho in his PSG/ Barcelona days - absolute magician who just did things no other player could even get close to. In his prime the best I have ever seen but sadly his prime didn't last as long as it should of due to his relaxed attitude towards training and his fitness. On song the best I have ever seen but Brazil Ronaldo has to take simply for being the best and most complete forward on the planet for a decade.

27 Jul 2016 13:47:52
Maradona, Ronaldo (original) and Rivaldo. First two need no explanation but the way the third one used to limp around the field like he was disabled and just come to life when in shooting distanse was just incredible. I never watched enough of his defensive work but an immense player that stepped up many a time on big occasions.

27 Jul 2016 15:01:57
Two English mavericks to throw in the mix were Gazza and Le Tissier. Neither were really what you would call world-class but both capable of sublime pieces of of skill to change a match. I enjoyed watching both in their day even though they were nowhere near the ability of Maradona.

27 Jul 2016 15:20:08
Possibly best non LFC goal I ever saw was Ronaldinho against Chesley in champions league. When he floated his foot over the ball and froze everyone. Then dinked it in the opposite corner. Brilliant idea.

For my money my favorite LFC goal was Gerrard v West Ham, FA Cup final.

27 Jul 2016 16:52:29
Saw a very little of Maradona, Romario was my Idol. One of the most complete strikers I have seen play. World Cup 98 partnering Bebetto. Romario unlike others stayed back in Brazil during his peak years.

Cryuff once said, Romario asked me for two days off to go back to Rio to attend the Carnival during the training session. I said to him, if you score two goals tomorrow, I would give you an extra day off. Romario scored 3 inside 20 minutes the next day and waved his hand to me to grant him to leave, I had no choice.

27 Jul 2016 19:31:11
Pele, Maradona, Cruyff, Zico, Beckenbauer, Ronaldo (R9), Van Basten, Messi, Ronaldo (CR7), Ronaldinho. In that order.

27 Jul 2016 20:23:59
@ Swish cleaner - Rivaldo is a boss shout, in terms of pure striking ability one of the best players ever, that left-foot good god an absolute cannon and a threat within 35 yards of goal. Perhaps not as complete as some of the other players mentioned but probably one of the best left foots of all time, just deadly.

Romario is a great shout as well Harry - and like Ronaldinho some serious issues when it came to his dedication to training. No arguments about his talent though, on another planet.

28 Jul 2016 01:12:52
Ronaldo (O Phenomeno) is simply the most gifted striker to ever play the game, hands down. As an all round player, he ranks amongst the top ten of all time. I saw Maradona, Ronaldo, Ronaldinho, Messi, CR7, Roberto Baggio and the great Marco Van Basten and many others play and take their teams to the promise land or close to it. Until CR7 and Messi take their teams to the promise land (Cristiano kind of did) on the international stage, they won't even make my top 15 of all time. because it is on the international stage that you enter into immortality.

27 Jul 2016 09:36:07
G'day, Eds.
Almost August, eh? Getting there, getting there. :)

Just quickly, do you expect a left-back to be the end of our senior incomings this summer?
Thanks.

{Ed001's Note - probably.}

27 Jul 2016 11:52:37
I'm more concerned about the Clyne situation. If he goes who will we need?

27 Jul 2016 12:05:01
Clyne isn't going anywhere.

27 Jul 2016 17:32:34
Unless we get a better replacement wouldn't have though Klopp will let someone leave without having a replacement in the squad or already lined up.

27 Jul 2016 08:29:06
Only slightly LFC related but a friend of mine was attempting to wind me up over our purchase of Grujic and their purchase of Pogba BUT you know what, I told him I wouldn't swap. He didn't get it and I just wondered if it was just me. I'll tell you my thoughts. Grujic I think has more presence and possibly better control and technique on the ball. Secondly Grujic has signed already and scored twice in preseason were as Pogba has just had his medical cancelled as both parties are yet to agree a fee. Thirdly UTD let him go when he was at youth level and now want to buy him back for a reported £85m+ sounds like desperation to me. Don't get me wrong, IF we were in the position were we could go out and buy these type of player, the Pogba's or Higuain's of the world I would be ecstatic but I'm more than happy with the way we've approached this window. Now let's get a bloody LB and I'll be ecstatic. Oh and Medel just for Ed001, let him know birthday wishes sometimes come true lol.

27 Jul 2016 09:01:20
Tip for you Poolie - stay away from Amsterdam mate.

27 Jul 2016 09:55:36
I'm astonished by the supposed fee for Pogba TBH. That's the kind of fee I'd expect for a gamechanger like a Messi or a Ronaldo - i don't see Pogba as that so not convinced by what he offers. More than happy for Utd to waste their cash though ;-)

27 Jul 2016 10:20:43
Uniteds midfield is awful though so makes sense to go splash a lot of cash on it.
I think pogbas a good player and a good signing for them, however I do think the lads overrated a fair bit and the price is well steep, but he will make a massive difference to United.
Comparing grujic is a bit unfair, he's not at that level, yet.
Does look to be a shrewd buy from Klopp though.

27 Jul 2016 11:07:24
Come on mate Grujic has better 'control and technique'? Have you watched Pogba play before? His control and technique is immaculate - he is a proper CM but with the added bonus of being an excellent dribbler as well, he is a deadly player and one of the best in the world in his position period. I know it sucks that United are probably going to sign him, giving their first team a massive boost, but there is no doubting the lads quality. I hope Grujic turns out to be just as good but I don't think he is there yet and I certainly don't think his pre-season form is any way to accurately judge him.

Would say to johnny that Pogba is definitely a game changer and a match winner as well - he scores plenty, offers a big presence in midfield and, all in all, is a top player. I'm honestly staggered so many here are making out like he is average. He'd walk into any midfield in the Premier League with ease.

27 Jul 2016 11:16:51
this is a very bizzare post.

27 Jul 2016 11:47:24
Come on fella, I'd rather Grujic for 7m than Pogba for 120m but in terms of the players themselves, it's Pogba all day every day right now.

27 Jul 2016 12:02:14
Yes I watch a lot of football and if you read the post properly no where do I say Pogba wasn't a good player, in fact I did say that if our club was in better circumstances such as playing CL football regularly then I would love us to be buying Pogba. What I was saying is that Pogba is very over rated and I don't think the level between Grujic and Pogba is that big. I think you'll find we got a bargain in Grujic. Yes Pogba is a good player but I don't think he's world class or that special, in fact in a pretty poor quality Euro 16 he looked pretty ordinary and was shown up by Payet who is valued at half the price. I'm not knocking United purchase more saying that I'm more than happy with our purchases.

27 Jul 2016 12:25:48
Pogba and Grujic are light years apart in terms of ability. If they played for each other respective clubs, i bet youd agree.

27 Jul 2016 13:10:30
Poolie, I know you love Grujic and think he`ll be great and I hope he does. But to compare both of them is ludicrous and unfair to both players and a false argument. Pogba is a top player, no doubt. Don`t pay attention to how he was used at the Euros as Deschamps didn`t actually know where to play him hence, played him at DM which is not his position. At Juve, he plays on the left of a 3 man central midfield in a 3-5-2 formation and he is class at that position. He`s not a no.10 nor a DM so he is played on the left as Juve do not play with a no.10. Don`t be fooled, Utd will be getting a game changer for sure. I have seen him play countless times for Juve over the years and trust me, he is NOT overrated by any stretch of the imagination. However is he worth 85-100m? No one is worth that but it is what it is. The funniest thing tho, is not Utd buying a player for near 100m. it is buying a player they actually let go for nothing for near 100m. That`s what`s really funny and rank incompetent.

27 Jul 2016 13:04:39
Just wondering are you basing this on the couple of pre season friendlys you've seen grujic play opposed to all the internationals and champions league games pogba has played.

27 Jul 2016 13:33:42
Pogba is world class. Ronaldo and Bale sold for similar fees in a much less crazy market. At todays market, if a nearly 30 year old Higuain is worth the fee Juventus have just paid, then Pogba is worth the fee United are paying.

Personally, I think they're all over priced now. But that's just the game.

United have really spurned some money in recent years. Zlatan will be another big salary, high profile flop in my opinion.

But Bailly, Mkhitaryan and Pogba are good pieces of business. Cost is ultimately irrelevant. Do they all improve United's team? Yes.

Will that make United title contenders? Not for me because they have far bigger problems than attacking midfielders. Bailly can be the next Boateng, he'll still look bad next to Smalling sandwiched in between Darmian and Rojo. Pogba can be the best midfielder since Zidane. Who will he play with though? Carrick? Rooney? Maybe resign Cleverley for £50m?

United still have a lot of work to do. But the business they have done so far cannot legitimately be knocked on the whole. The Zlatan signing is the only one that makes no sense as Rashford was coming on well, Moy says Rooney is a striker, so Zlatan is just going to take game time off Rashford. Rashford can't even move to the wing because Mkhitaryan will play on the right and Martial on the left.

That to me is a major saving grace. I would fear facing Rashford and Martial with the class of Micky and Pogba supplying them. But it looks like Rooney and Ibra will be shoehorned in and that is just a crying shame from a United perspective.

27 Jul 2016 14:16:23
Pogba is a very good player. Never seen him step up in critical games but nonetheless very good. Hugely over rated. Grujic has tons to prove but has all the weapons to be a very good player.

27 Jul 2016 14:20:03
Mk I see your point, I don't worry about utd these days . They've had great teams ( or big names ) on paper for the last couple of years and the have been the worst team to watch in the league for the most part (de gea probably gained them 20 points) . Jose is a good manager but it will take more than a year to mould those misfits into a team.