20 Mar 2024 09:01:47
That PGMOL audio and Howard Webb explanation for the Doku/ Mac Allister penalty incident is farcical. For a start, in the audio what they're saying is not a reflection of anything that is happening on the screen. It was like they were watching another incident. They said:
"Both high": They weren't; Mac Allister has two feet on the floor and controls the ball on his chest. Not high at any point, not even foot off the floor at any point. On the other hand, Doku is genuinely high. He is jumping with both feet off the floor and the highest of his feet is chest high on a player who is standing upright. Also studs up.
Mac Allister "comes into his space" - what does that even mean? Since when has "coming into his space" been a thing in football? Closing down and tackling is one of the fundamentals of the sport.
Doku "touches it first" - he doesn't. To the on field referee I could see how it might have appeared that way but when you slow it down and look at the replays that VAR were watching, you see that the first touch was Mac Allister's.
Doku "plays the ball" - he gets a very slight touch on it, out of control off his shin, after it's come off Mac Allister's chest and a split second before his studs go into Mac Allister. Anyway, we've been told all season - as explanation for various red cards - that contact on the ball doesn't mean it can't be a foul.
And then Webb repeats it all on TV with all his BS and trained hand gestures, like the David Brent of refereeing. It's astonishing.
In fact, if you were to play that VAR audio over the Gomez/ wan Bissaka incident from Sunday (foul and yellow card against Gomez) it would fit a lot better. High bouncing ball, both come in slightly high (but actually not as high as Doku was on Mac Allister), Gomez gets the ball (more contact on the ball that Doku made) and is just about first to it but his follow through hits wan Bissaka's foot (which is just as high as Gomez) . And if that was a foul and a yellow card, whilst Doku on Mac Allister is not given, that says it all.
I reckon PGMOL are in a position now where they just can't admit any further pivotal errors that go against Liverpool. They are already facing the potential of two binary/ black and white errors that they have admitted (Diaz v Tottenham and Odegaard handball) costing Liverpool the league title and the storm there would be around that. They must be desperate for one team to run away and win it by a comfortable margin.
20 Mar 2024 10:19:03
Agree with every word, especially the last part.
20 Mar 2024 10:59:40
Just when you think they cannot be more ridiculous, Webb turns up with that insane position. Honestly, I really really hope that we win no20 and Klopp says what he thinks about PGMOL before he bows out.
20 Mar 2024 11:09:17
RR, you had to guess that Webbo had to go out there and speak with all 20 sides of his mouth to protect his boy or the so-called "Best Referee in England", NONE of which is actually true, btw.
So look at it this way. Webbo has come out to apologize to LFC on both the Diaz thingy and the Steph Curry or sorry, Odegaard incident, right? Do you really think he was going to go out there to give us a THIRD apology? Also, Webbo threw Oliver under the bus when he came out to apologise to Arsenal saying Oliver influenced the outcome of the game when he did not correctly send Kovacic off for a clear, second bookable offence. Do you really think he was going to throw Oliver under the bus a second time? Let's be real here.
And here is how you know Webbo is full of it (shocking, I know) . He says that the ref Oliver (who couldn't have seen the incident clearly as he was behind the play) was correct to not give it and that VAR was right not to intervene. But then with another one of the 20 sides of his mouth, he said that had Oliver given the pen, VAR would NOT have intervened either? Sorry, that makes NO sense as this is NOT a subjective ruling, as he says.
Why? Cos there is actually a RULE that explains what should happen in this instance of dangerous play with a high boot. Notice, Webbo does not talk about this rule cos it doesn't fit the rhetoric of defending the cartel. We're being gas-lit, mate. It is what it is.
20 Mar 2024 11:37:19
Agree with all of that RR and I will add that if you listen to what Webb says he actually contradicts himself and virtually admits that Oliver needed help from VAR which he didn’t get. He says:
"It's a massive game, so as a referee, you just want clarity and certainty that you're making the right decision. You don't always have sufficient information that you're making the right decision. You need that on big moments in and around the penalty area. “
Then in the very next sentence he says this:
“Michael didn't have certainty in this situation but VAR didn't have any clear and obvious evidence to overturn the on-field decision. ”
So what is VAR there for if not to give the referee certainty in his decision? Webb is trying to say that VAR followed the correct protocol but is also saying that the ref wasn’t sure. So why didn’t VAR send the ref to have a look to give him the certainty that he didn’t have?
The whole thing stinks to high heaven and the pathetic cover up by Webb is even worse.
Webb and his cronies are the most corrupt organisation in football and that is saying something.
20 Mar 2024 11:58:46
Absolutely no point of this programme with someone like Michael Owen presenting either, has to be someone who won't let Webb waffle his way out of things.
20 Mar 2024 12:34:05
This web fella was a police officer. I would not trust this person as far as i could throw him. It is time for him to be sacked along with other referees who follow his instructions and i mean now.
20 Mar 2024 12:44:48
@Beckers, Webbo already told you what VAR is for in his last apology tour. He said that VAR works hard to "corroborate" whatever decision (right or wrong), lack of inconsistency and blatant incompetence or otherwise, that the on-pitch referee engages in when it's time to make decisions esp. in big games. That is exactly what has happened here, for the upteenth time. Protecting the ref. establishment is the point of VAR, essentially.
Look, he was never going to throw Oliver under the bus even tho, he threw both he and the VAR guy under the bus based on his actual quotes. What I don't get is as you say, the more he spoke to appease everyone and still stick up for his bros., the more contradictory and full of it he appeared. The cover-up didn't work and has NEVER worked we see thru it easily.
And you know what else is funny? It just so happens that for the 3 times we have been screwed that the PGMOL have come out to address, City and Arsenal have benefited from these screw-ups directly and that's not counting the ones they did not come out to address directly. I know, it stinks.
20 Mar 2024 19:22:31
Let’s get to the basic bottom line- and criticise me for repeating myself
I’ve said it since it came in
VAR is being used to manufacture results
There can be no other reason for the number of shocking decisions or non-decisions made.
20 Mar 2024 21:06:31
100% agree with everything above, where i do differ ( maybe naively) is the agenda against Liverpool. many teams have been at the wrong end of dodgy officiating and Webb is doing nothing more than protecting his mates ( we know this is engrained in the PGMOL) let’s not forget Mike Deans personal admission which Howard Webb tried to say was wrong, again Webb tried to say that Mike Deans own personal account of events and his own actions were wrong!
The PGMOL are rotten to the core and only concerned with self preservation, not match fixing or grand conspiracy they are simply inept.
VAR is the scourge of the modern game but cannot be scrapped because that would only lead to worse decisions. VAR needs to be stripped to its simplest form, the ref, a monitor and the captains who can request a review. Watch rugby’s VAR in use, the players go to the ref and say ‘ I think there was a high tackle on x’ the ref looks at the screen and makes the decision, no ego involved, the refs want to be correct and anonymous above all else. For those who think Rugby is slower and the game is stopped a lot more etc have a look at all the rules that are involved in rugby and how complex they are, look how many players are involved in a phase of play, we are talking tiny tiny details, honestly when you compare the complexities of both games football is a simple game made complicated so there is no reason for this to be time consuming.
Finally, let’s get refs out of the spotlight and out of the tv studios, they are not the stars and are taking over every bit of punditry.
{Ed001's Note - just to point out that what you have said is grand conspiracy. It might not be grand conspiracy to harm one club above others, but it is conspiracy to cover up mistakes made by their group.}
20 Mar 2024 21:16:39
Fair point Ed, I guess what I was trying to highlight is that I don’t think it’s a conspiracy against Liverpool to stop them from winning the league although at times it does feel that way!
Can I ask what do you see happening with VAR? It won’t be scrapped but do you see any changes coming down the line?
{Ed001's Note - I hope it is changed because right now it is ruining the game. But with the ex-copper Webb in charge, it will stay the same because he can use it to corraborate what his boys are doing.}
21 Mar 2024 07:36:02
Webb was a copper in the South Yorkshire police. Enough said.
21 Mar 2024 09:28:21
" It might not be grand conspiracy to harm one club above others, but it is conspiracy to cover up mistakes made by their group. "
This!
21 Mar 2024 10:45:28
I agree that findings decent copper is rarer than finding a decent referee. Webb was probably rubbish at that too. They bottled that decision end of last kick off the game wouldn’t have looked great to the powers that be.