20 Mar 2024 11:25:05
If anyone needed any more evidence for how inept the PGMOL are, just go and watch Howard Webb talking about the Mac Allister penalty decision against city.
He said the reason the penalty was not given due to both players “coming in high” to the challenge. How on earth can a player come into the challenge high with his chest?
This is always going to be the problem with VAR, they’re all mates and they’ve all got each other's backs. Until the VAR is an independent entity of some kind, nothing will change.
20 Mar 2024 12:18:12
Let it go - it’s flawed. It’s flawed for everybody. Saying over and over that it doesn’t work doesn’t help.
20 Mar 2024 12:29:42
Was listening to Keith Hackett this morning on talksport and he said the opposite ?♂️.
20 Mar 2024 12:31:38
I think every football fan is sick to the back teeth of VAR and the ones who run it and the premier league. Our game has been ruined from a sport to a cash cow for the rich. Charged outrageous prices, treated like cattle, games put on at times with no consideration of the fans.
Football needs a complete overhaul to make the game a level playing field . When an average football player can earn more money in a week than a doctor or nurse can earn in a year for kicking a bag of air around a pitch.
20 Mar 2024 13:39:11
Wdw, you're right mate. I'm guilty of going on about it but you're spot on, this is the new normal whether we like it or not.
20 Mar 2024 14:07:54
Sorry WDW3, so we should all be quiet about it cos we can't do anything about it? Miss me with that stuff, mate. I ain't letting that go anytime soon. The only thing worse than the clear non-decision itself, was the wretched excuse and shambles and blatant quadruple-speak Webbo engaged us in his bid to gas light us that we should not believe what our own eyes are seeing and just believe the absolute contradictory tripe that comes out of his mouth. Also, not everyone is affected cos I don't recall any other team go they what we went thru at Spurs. Nor has City gotten done by these incompetent decisions either so the "It"s flawed for everyone" schtick is NOT true either.
This whole ship stinks and we all know it and the worse thing here is that for every mistake PGMOL has made and apologised to LFC for, City and Arsenal has directly benefited by default. That's why it stinks in our situation. So No, I ain't letting it go any time soon and I'll keep talking about it.
20 Mar 2024 15:30:40
Keith Hackett, who used to be the boss of PGMOL back in the day, was furious too, as he firmly believes the referee and the VAR made a mistake by not awarding Liverpool a penalty. He had a real go at Webb for not accepting the mistake.
Reacting to Webb’s words, Hackett said in a tweet: “Not a foul Howard? you are joking. Do not defend the indefensible. ”
In another tweet, he wrote: “What abject nonsense from Howard Webb who is ignoring Law 12. Careless -Reckless definition. ”
Replying to a fan, Hackett said: “The boot is too high and makes contact with Mac Allister. It’s a foul! All day every day. Liverpool should have had a penalty kick. ”.
20 Mar 2024 16:09:17
What is mind boggling and bewildering is that grown professional adults are serving up this nonsense on a regular basis, on the belief that other grown adults (the fans and media) will swallow it and not say much about it. Seems to be working.
I firmly believe that the absolute wrong thing is to let it go. What is right is right, and what is wrong is wrong. And everyone has the right (I could even go as far as to say; almost an obligation) to say what they feel is wrong.
Another thing that comes to mind is what I always say: 'be careful what you ask for because you just might get it". Well we asked for better refereeing standards before all this VAR stuff. No one had an inkling that it would turn out so controversially, but there you go.
20 Mar 2024 16:14:44
Webb pretty much confirmed exactly what Klopp and everyone else has been saying all along.
Oliver wasn’t sure so he gave nothing, thinking that VAR would look at it and tell him if he was wrong. VAR then look at it and think ‘I don’t want to go against my mate’ so they go with Oliver’s non decision, even though his non decision was only made because he expected clarification from VAR.
What annoys me more than anything is they keep talking about processes and protocols. He followed the correct process, he used the correct protocol as if that makes up for giving the wrong decision! You are officials in a football match, the whole reason for you being there is to get the decisions correct! If you think that process and protocol is more important than actually getting the decisions right then what is the point of your existence?
It’s a sh@t show. It’s simply not fit for purpose in its current form.
20 Mar 2024 16:46:10
WDW, not saying anything is surely worse? Just accepting it will only allow them to get away with it for longer.
20 Mar 2024 20:33:52
@Oli, JK_RED, I strongly suspect that VAR and its usage will have undergone hopefully major) changes by the start of next season. It doesn’t work the way it is currently set up. We know and everybody else knows including the FA.
It won’t be changed this season, because changing it mid-season potentially makes them culpable for wrong decisions which, n turn, could possibly open them up to claims for financial recompense from a number of teams - we lose the title by one point and the Spurs fiasco and the Doku challenge could literally lose us hundreds of thousands / millions.
There will be a VAR 2.0, it’s inevitable. I really understand that it is a poorly executed process, which clearly hasn’t been thought through, and I understand that we are all frustrated and angry with it and really p1ssed off with loads of the decisions, which are not transparent and appear, at best, arbitrary when paying spectators can’t hear what’s going on / being said.
My comment yesterday doesn’t mean people should stop voicing their concerns, and we certainly shouldn’t let it drop, but a thread a day seems overkill to me. Collectively, we’ve all got a scab on our knee, picking at it won’t help it get better (we’ll that’s what my mum said ?) .
20 Mar 2024 20:47:36
This whole Mic’d up show is a farce and is gas lighting in its purest forum! Not just within the context of Liverpool but in every episode Webb comes out with his rehearsed segment where he tries to rewrite events and justify errors is frankly disrespectful to fans… Webb says that both players ‘came in high’? And Doku got the ball, both are factually inaccurate but Michael Owen stands there like a paid clown and nods politely?
I’m not saying that Liverpool should have 100% had a better penalty, that’s a subjective call and up for debate but what isint subjective is the facts and that can’t be allowed to go unchecked. Frankly VAR needs a complete overhaul in its process which sees all refs make the final decision on a VAR call, when the game is stopped and VAR is taking 3 or 4 minutes to review an incident why isint the ref doing this at the monitor? Why do we have a 4th official reviewing an incident and deciding then if the error meets this mythical threshold to overturn a decision. Simple solution, VAR flag a possible pen shout which is a subjective call, ref without input from anyone else goes and looks at the monitor and makes a decision. If u want to speed things up then use the big screens in the stadium!
Also if something takes 3 minutes to review then it’s for me it’s an inconsequential matter and play on, let’s not go searching for reasons to rule out goals or award penalty’s for a players big toe being clipped. errors will continue but atleast they won’t be resulting from bureaucracy and farcical things like clear and obvious.
20 Mar 2024 20:53:34
Wdw3 I completely understand your point. Honestly though- if it affected every team it would be easier to take. There is one team that again and again and again and again appears to get the “benefit of doubt”. It’s just frustrating. It’s also a comfort seeing other voices echoing the same frustrations. I hope for a fairer var but like a broken record I’ll say until the betting issues occurring- I can’t see there being any change occurring.
21 Mar 2024 08:44:33
Name names @aoe - I’m sure the truth will be revealed when the decision of ‘no evidence of wrongdoing’ is arrived at in 2045 and the FA have just signed a multi trillion deal with representatives of the UAE.
Being only slightly mitre serious it is hard to tell if the benefit f the doubt shown to the side you refer to isn’t just another example of complete ineptitude rather than anything Machiavellian. As a (slightly cynical) optimist I’m sticking with hoping for better things next season.
21 Mar 2024 09:09:12
The sooner people face the fact that the game is so obviously fixed for one result or another, the sooner we can purge this corruption out of the game and go back to watching a pure sporting contest. We've been denied at least 4 points this season (Tottenham, Man City), down to the most heinous of duck-ups. They want a team to win the league and it isn't Liverpool. The league is fixed just like the NFL, and many players have testified to that fact.
21 Mar 2024 09:25:09
Mcgoveb, my point exactly. They keep saying it was a subjective call which is a blatant lie. If something has an actual statute governing it, it is NOT subjective, period/ end of story. Again, this is the dumbing down of footie analysis where applying footie laws don't matter anymore. Only people's feelings (doused in tribalism) that matter in a bid to drive controversy and click.
Law 12 is there to govern this type of incident and the rule/ statutes are clear on this. This incident fits the rule like a glove YET I have yet to see anyone in punditry or online use/ mention it in their analysis to support why it should not have been a pen. Convenience? Probably and I'll tell you why.
When the whole manufactured "drop-ball" fiasco happened, there were people who where sore about us winning the game (legitimately I might add), stating the actual rule that says that it should have gone to Forrest (despite the fact that the same thing happened to us in the first half) . Now notice that NOT a soul nor Webbo himself referred to that rule. Why? Cos it would have blown their whole rhetoric on non pen into bits hence, no leg to stand on. Liars, the lot of them.
21 Mar 2024 11:15:13
Tbh, I think it’d have been better if Webb had come out and just explained that the VAR verified what the ref saw and didn’t see a clear and obvious error. That would have been better than explaining why it wasn’t a pen.
Cos the explanation is bogus.
21 Mar 2024 11:16:11
@WDW trust me I get it, I’m just as sick as you are of talking about them, but it seems every single weekend there’s a big decision ruining games. It’s actually quite impressive how many decisions they get wrong with a million cameras covering every single angle of the pitch.
21 Mar 2024 12:33:52
Faithinworks OR, Webbo could have just kept his mouth shut and kept it moving cos we all knew what happened and know the refs screwed up. The amount of rival fans (even Arsenal fans who benefited from the result) saying it was a clear pen, is mind-blowing and it only went up after the absolute gaslighting debacle Webbo and his band of liars subjected us to.
{Ed001's Note - Webb has been trained at South Yorkshire Police, that is all you need to know in order to understand that nothing that comes out of his mouth can be trusted. He should never be in any position of authority.}
21 Mar 2024 18:26:00
Spot on, Ed. I lived in the States for many years. Never believe a word that comes out of a cop's mouth when talking about the conduct of his fellow cop.
22 Mar 2024 12:47:48
Incredible how the scale of what happened in those towns was just brushed under the rug.
22 Mar 2024 13:03:12
Few major issues with VAR for me lads:
1 - it is run by Refs. I mean we all heard Mike Dean saying he didn't tell the ref about the Cucarella hair pull because his mate had already had a bad day and he didn't make it worse fs.
Also, the refs seemingly don't want to 'overrule' their mate on the field so just back up the decision made - which as wrong as often the ref on the field makes a call, thinking if he's wrong then his mate in VAR will bail him out.
Again, then VAR refers the ref to the screen, how many times has the ref honestly said 'no' and backed his own decision? Has happened what once this season I think?
Personally, I think because it's refs on VAR no one knows who has the final decision as above, they both just want to back up their mates - I think VAR should be manned by people outside of the refs. They see something and refer the ref to the screen to look at it. Final decision is the onfield refs and no-one elses.
2 - the decisions themselves made by VAR and when it decides to get involved
We see a decision given one week as like a penalty or red card - get the likes of Dermot Gallagher explaining how it is a correct decision and processed used, then the next week we see an identical incident and a different decision this time. Again, Dermot tells us, using a different interpretation of those same rules, how bizarrely that this too was alos a correct decision.
Again, we see VAR intervene one week for an incident then not get involved for an identical incident the following week. Dermot, Mike Dean etc tell us how both decisions were correct and we are left scratching our heads wondering what the difference was - was it the Clubs involved? The Stadium the match was in etc, who knows?
3. The length of time taken to make a decision - I mean this has to be split into 2 parts:
A - 5 mins plus to look at a possibly penalty/ red card etc type incident. I mean jeez, we see like every replay the VAR officials see and it doesn't take longer than 30 secs or so to see if it is a deliberate handball or a karate kick to the chest but hey, they take their 5 mins, fair enough, but how they then come to a different decision than the millions watching at home is just inexplicable.
B - then the offsides, a real annoyance for me. VAR is to intervene for those 'clear and obvious' incidents - if it takes 5 mins plus and the drawing of lines to measure millimetres of a possible offside then it's hardly bloody clear or obvious is it and VAR should not get involved
The solution? For me simple - one still, in line across the pitch when the ball is played. If he's on he's on, if he's off he's off - usually obvious, if it's too close to tell then you don't need lines, the advantage goes to the attacker. Simple fs and what, 30 seconds for the decision to be made?
VAR in itself is a useful tool and should lead to the correct decision to be made - the fact this isn't happening should show it is merely being used incorrectly and thus needs looked at.