07 Oct 2025 04:56:26
There are numerous issues so far this season, but the one that stands out for me is pace: we don't have any. Well we do (Frimpong, Kerkez) but we don't use any in our play. Our fullbacks seem to invert more times than not (which I hated when Klopp started doing it and still hate now), which removes pace as an asset, and takes up space. I addition none of our forwards are exceedingly quick - I mean they're no slouches, but that super rapid pace that scares defenders? We don't have it. Salah has as lost the lightning burst he had, Gakpo has never been that quick, Ekitike is fast but not over the first yard, ditto for Isak. Young Rio is the only one with that pace and dribbling ability, which is why he's had a bit of an impact despite his age and rawness. The passing is already somewhat lethargic, but that can be improved. A lack of pace individually (and a lack of willing to set the team up to use it) is a big issue, as we are so predictable. I hope the boss recognizes this.
07 Oct 2025 07:32:20
You know what i was thinking something similar although not particularly about pace but about seeing someone who just wants to run at people and go past them.
Diaz did it but other than him Rio is the only player i can think of that does it consistently.
But players like that lose the ball a lot so if Slot wants more control you can understand him not having those tupes of players in his team.
07 Oct 2025 07:39:58
I'm not entirely sure our full backs are inverting, Conor does but it's not exactly inverting, it's carrying the ball through the middle of the pitch like an 8 would, and then making underlapping runs off the ball near the box, which is his game anyway. Kerkez and robbo are still getting out wide, but sometimes with no understanding with the left winger, or in the worst case, being hung out to dry on their own that time wirtz started on the left wing and playing as a central 10 anyway.
I think the last few games we're seeing how integral mo being on form is to the way we play. We gamble putting him on the field and having him take up the highest position up the field in build up, and not having to press or track back much, because he is the difference maker when we can find him in space and the opposition full back is caught up the field.
Against Chelsea he got in good positions because cucurella was always marauding up the field, we were looking for him every time. Usually in those situations he will deliver much more often than not, but when he is playing that badly we have all the demerits of giving him that license defensively while having none of the advantages of doing that. I'm going to say it again, an on form Salah wins us that game comfortably, as average as we were for large parts of that game (and Chelsea were actually just as bad, they pressed better than us but they gave the ball away loads too) .
07 Oct 2025 07:58:02
Seano agree mate and it’s not just pace of the players but the pace in which we move the ball. Everything seems so slow and laboured and the team look so risk adverse.
The Galatasaray game in particular was an awful one to watch and I’d be surprised if the ball was actually in play more than 40 minutes.
Even the game against Arsenal it felt like both teams had taken a lead out of American football and it was all about set pieces.
This isn’t just us but the modern day PL football where players who can run are more appreciated than actual ballers.
In this day and age the next Ronaldinho, Messi, R9, Cantona, Bergkamp, Okocha’s, Di Canio’s, Le Tissiers etc wouldn’t even get a look in, in modern day Premier league football.
07 Oct 2025 08:10:10
The only player who zips a pass and runs into space is Wirtz. His passes are missed because our players are too much on their heels and nobody is picking up his runs.
Then we have Salah. Cucurella admitted that Chelsea had worked on Salah not tracking back in training. They won’t have been the first team and they won’t be the last.
And is it Jota causing his dip in form or is it age? His touch is gone, his pace is gone and his passing is 50/ 50 at best right now. We are technically playing with 10 men from kick off.
Plenty of work for Slot to do over the break.
07 Oct 2025 08:35:33
Does anything think the players might be risk averse because Slot digs out anyone that loses the ball publicly? This is one thing I don't like about Slot. I don't mind him hooking players when playing badly but I don't want him telling the world about the missed passes they made to cost us. The team should be set up to defend counter attacks properly and were not. And that is something that is on Slot and not the players for losing the ball when trying a killer pass. Why buy Wirtz and then scare everyone out of passing to him in dangerous areas?
07 Oct 2025 09:35:06
You're right about not having quick players but in midfield we seem desperately slow. grav got an extra gear Slob is ok but Jones endo n particularly Macallister is the slowest . I think that is are main problem . the midfield, they don't control the games, very easy to get through usually with one pass like we saw Chelsea score their first , they don't seem to be a cohesion unit . all good players though .
{Ed001's Note - Szobo is very quick, as is Grav.}
07 Oct 2025 09:44:22
I don't think the team, in general, is up to pace yet.
A lot of new players, injuries, fitness, a suspension (? ) and form means that winning that winning the transfer window hasn't reaped the rewards we expected so far.
If we get a couple of those that are struggling firing we'll improve massively. If they all do, well.
Obviously we still need to get the balance right. That said, I don't think we had that in midfield last season and we comfortably won the League. This season Wirtz has been added when Mac is woefully out of sorts and Grav and Szob are being moved around.
I think we need someone alongside Grav and that would allow Wirtz and Szob to do what they do best. I'm not sure where this leaves Mac given his current form.
07 Oct 2025 09:56:27
A pass will always be faster than a run and we should focus on that. Running speed is one thing but we also need to move the ball faster. The reason why we look so slow this season is not because we lack pace in the squad but we move the ball so slowly. Players take 2-3 touches and look up before they play the pass. That slows us down a lot as it gives teams the chances to get back into shape to defend against us.
On the point about our midfield, I think our best midfield is Grav and Szob, with Wirtz in the 10 ahead of them. I like Macca but he is way of the pace this season so he shouldn't be starting. Him, Jones, and Endo are adequate back-up for now until we have the chance the revisit that position again, either in Jan or the summer.
07 Oct 2025 10:16:37
I'm not really sure that's true jk, if anything outstanding one on one players are more valuable than ever because they make a difference when every team is fit enough to press and mark man to man, one player who is a split second ahead of the curve and does something unexpected or who can beat their marker with a feint or dribble can create disorder and space. The difference is that player also needs to be able to press and run themselves and be disciplined positionally off the ball, which many of the named players were not.
Wirtz at Bayer was pretty much that player, a player who could consistently create disorder in the opposing third and who had a system built around giving him the freedom to express himself with two hard working forwards who could drop deep and overlapping wingbacks, but who did his part in the team's off the ball structure. I guess the game is much more systematic now and a maverick player is invaluable, but also has to work cohesively in the context of the team's shape.
Also on the point of slot digging players out, I can agree to some extent, but that's just the kind of man he is, honest and straightforward. It's not often about a pass that goes astray either, he criticised Dom for trying an unnecessary trick on the center circle too, besides that I think there's probably only one other occasion that he's done it that I can remember?
It's true that we are not very well insured for when a pass is misplaced, I would say actually that we can't be characterised as being 'risk averse' if we are sending hospital passes into midfield a few times a game without being in a good shape to cover if things go wrong. I fact in such a situation I'd want us to be a bit more risk averse lol.
07 Oct 2025 10:41:50
Pat always enjoy reading your posts but couldn’t disagree more.
Just looking at football only as far back as say 2000-2010 the game was far more exciting and had mavericks all over the place. Wirtz is a good example but for every one player today back in those days and further you could counter argue everyone with 5 players.
07 Oct 2025 11:30:24
I'm with Jk23 on this. We had way more mavericks in the game in the 2000s and early 2010s than we do now.
07 Oct 2025 12:19:43
Seano, I disagree. There is pace in the team whether it be Frimpong and Kerkez, Grav and Szobo esp. and Gakpo and to some extent Isak and Eketike. So were Diaz and Darwin ep; last season, as well. The pace was there then and it is there now so that is not our issue. Neither do we invert our FB's. The only time we did hat was when Szobo inverted in the second half of the Arsenal game which helped nullify Arsenal's want to overload the midfield and it worked on the occasion he did so.
Having said that, we are not moving the ball with pace, intensity and purpose and that is a separate issue. That has to do with tactics that the manager is putting in place than the pace that is clearly in the team. As for us pressing, we don't press anywhere near last season cos of again, the manager's choices. It's that simple, IMO.
07 Oct 2025 12:37:08
Playing hospital passes in to midfield is not taking a risk its being rubbish. If they could pass straight the pass could come straight back to them or the keeper. Taking a risk would be passing through the lines to Wirtz who runs constantly into space. We've seen how he can make a chance with one touch in those areas. Give him the ball in the final third or he's basically just doing the bleep test all game or having to come deep to get it and that's when he thinks he has more time than he does.
07 Oct 2025 13:00:06
@Oli - I’ve yet to see our fullbacks, especially on the right, overlap on the outside. Bradley comes in centrally all the time, Kerkez is seemingly told not to run ahead of whoever is LM/ LW. Szobo and Grav. are fast, but I’m talking about that explosive first yard, that pace that worries defenses (think Torres, think Mane, think prime Salah, etc) - it gives opposition things to think about. We could use Frimpong and Kerkez on the overlap to utilize this, but we seem either unwilling or unable to do so.
The system is nullifying a number of players, and isn’t even getting the best out of the others who aren’t nullified. Pace scares defenders, drags them out of position, gives others space - right now we have very few answers to a low block no matter how poor the opponents (Burnley), or that much thrust even when teams don’t play the low block. Instead we pass it around slowly and aimlessly, then lose it and need to get people back to fend off the counter attack. I mean look at the games this season - we’re shipping multiple goals every game, and not even creating all that much. It’s October now and we look no better than we did in August - if anything we look worse. We need a huge improvement in every area if we’re serious about defending our league title, because this is nowhere near good enough, and it hasn’t been all season.
07 Oct 2025 14:24:48
Seano, you are making my point for me. The strengths you outline that the players possess, are belong nullified by the way Slot is setting the team up to play. I would love to have overlapping FB's to get forward and assist the widemen esp. on the right cos that will help Salah and provide him with an option while at the same time, forcing the oppo. winger to track back. But we aren't doing that cos they are being restricted to do things they seem not to be able to do
Also, having Szobo in midfield will also help free up Salah as he can burst into the inside channel for Salah to find him or use his run as a decoy to make hay. But guess what, man? We again, can't do any of this cos Szobo is now playing all the way back there at RB.
And the lack of intensity in our ball movement, passing is just dreadful. We aren't taking the game to the oppo. like we did last season and the square pegs in round holes are sucking the freaking life out of me. It's Oct. for sure and not panicking in any way BUT we have to sort things out fundamentally first.
07 Oct 2025 16:12:30
ED001 that what I was saying Grav has an extra gear n slob is ok . the rest are all very average speedwise.