Liverpool Banter
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21 May 2024 15:17:01
Ed1, where do you see Curtis Jones fitting in our new system assuming Slot keeps it the same as at Feyenoord? To me, he appears to be the obvious odd man out (which I think would be a shame) as he isn't really 6 or a 10. Also, do you think Slot will be the man to convert Trent to a DM? It was teased in pre season last year but as soon as Bradley got hurt it was never attempted again.
Thanks in advance and sorry for the long post.
1
{Ed001's Note - he was always an attacker in youth football and should be perfectly capable of playing as a 10. He has also played very well as a 6 for England U21s. I don't see an issue with that, it is his injuries that are the problem.
I do expect Trent to move into midfield under Slot, he has Bradley and Ramsay for fullback, so it makes sense to play Trent there.}
2
21 May 2024 15:48:27
Ramsay?
0
{Ed001's Note - yes. He has had injury problems but I would expect Slot to give the players a fresh start and he should be very suited to the partially inverted fullback system Slot favoured.}
0
21 May 2024 15:50:41
Hello ed 1 just for curiosity what are the positions you think we need to strengthen as you have been championing the youth
Bradley last year
Beck this year at lb but what are the positions that you would go out and spend big to bring someone in .
I personally think we need a cb and another midfielder but do you and your crystal ball see anything we don’t in the squad and youth?
0
{Ed001's Note - left sided centre-back to replace VVD long term and left-sided attacker to replace Mo long term. They are what we really need. I think if anything we are a bit ott on midfielders, could probably do with offloading one or two to get Trent in there and make space for youth coming through.}
1
21 May 2024 16:06:15
Surely we'll be saddled with too many midfielders if Trent makes a permanent move, which I feel would be best for all parties. On top of that Bajcetic will be fit again and the likes of Clark and McConnell will be pushing for places. Which of our midfielders could you see moving on?
Gravenberch is the first likely casualty for me, I don't think he is versatile or well rounded enough to justify keeping, a bit like Smith Rowe at Arsenal. Jones perhaps, because of his injuries, though I love him as a player.
I can see Mac Allister, Szoboszlai and Elliott being perfect for the advanced midfield positions, I can even see a place for Szoboszlai playing on the right if Salah goes, he'd fit what Slot looks for in a winger.
Endo and Bajcetic are a fine combination for the 6, unless Slot wants to find a replacement for Endo and have Bajcetic play understudy, though I can't see that happening. I think it's more likely that Trent moves there for some of the matches.
0
21 May 2024 16:37:08
We are crying out for a top quality defensive midfielder, someone of the calibre of Fabinho, when he was good. Bajcetic may be the answer, but if we are seriously going to challenge that's where the money needs spending, in my opinion. And this obsession with Trent being the answer in midfield is delusional. In my opinion of course.
1
21 May 2024 16:38:20
Who out of the midfield would you offload then Ed
I honestly think theirs a case for them all to stay but we are counting on potential coming to fruition with most of them .
How long do you wait I can see Elliot being the pick of the bunch in a few years he’s really adding parts to his game I never thought he’d be able to do but he’s improving so well really think he’s going to be a mainstay.
0
{Ed001's Note - I like Jones, but his fitness issues are a worry. I would say he is the one closest to the door, sadly.}
0
21 May 2024 17:02:33
We have a top quality DM in Endo for maybe one more season, him and Bajcetic rotating will do us just fine if we are playing a DM that is. Why spend money on a position already covered? (for now atleast) .
1
21 May 2024 17:16:53
Salah, have to disagree. Endo is a "good" player. Top quality? Never. Served a purpose this season, but he lacks pace and he's not going to improve that.
1
21 May 2024 17:20:31
I think we're guaranteed a minimum of 48 games next season and every player in the squad has a clean slate to impress the manager during pre season.
Its a great opportunity for players like Jones and Elliot to stake their claims.
0
21 May 2024 09:49:40
@West Derby Wanderer3,
Macca not world class, come on west derby, mate. the lad has a medal and a trophy which tells you he is world class. He was a big part of the Argentina winning the world cup mate he is in the elite footballers of the world you do know buddy that there are only 8 teams that have won the world cup from 1930 to date.
When Macca has the settled midfield partners around him you will see why we got the bargain of the year unlike the lad at Chelsea who was Macca's partner in the world cup and cost 100+ million pounds. West Derby would you say Glenn Hoddle, King Kenny Graham Souness, Brian Robson, Paul Gaza were world class mate they never won the world cup?
3
21 May 2024 10:49:48
@iwillbered, I don’t see what you see with macca mate. I think he’s ok. winning the World Cup is no barometer it’s about 8 games. ( we certainly wasn’t the best team in Europe when we won in Istanbul) the Curtis who got sent off at spurs is better.
1
21 May 2024 11:23:55
@scousejohn
Not sure why as a Liverpool fan you’re going to such lengths to create a narrative that Mac Alister isn’t a top player.
Winning the World Cup is no barometer for being a good player? I disagree.
He’s much better than “ok”.
And he’s much better than Curtis Jones.
Player of the season in my opinion. Of course you’re entitled to yours too.
3
21 May 2024 11:54:04
People have forgotten how Mac Allister was struggling and how many goals were scored due to his mistakes, when he was playing DM. The story changed dramatically when Endo came in and Mac Allister was moved forward.
For me he's a very good player. But his body of work with us is too small for me to say if he is world class or not. I'm aware of the titles he's won, but I still want to see more from him. Alisson, VVD and Salah are world class for me because I've seen them be at that level for a heck of a long time.
I think Szoboszlai is better than Mac Allister and Jones, but very far from showing it on any consistent level. I don't know what's happened to him. I'll be watching him closer next season.
2
21 May 2024 12:19:49
Bernard diomede was world class then.
0
21 May 2024 12:21:58
I don’t think BD started many games for France in that run.
2
21 May 2024 12:24:42
Indeed, @Mad Max BUT Diomede is nowhere near the player Macca is, ability-wise.
As for me Macca ain't world class, mate I love the player to bits cos his ability on the ball, vision, press-resistance and goalscoring ability from midfield top class, IMO. The world class thingy is a bit much and just cos he won a WC (and was pivotal) does NOT mean he is world class cos football does not start nor end based on your performance in a tournament that comes along every 4 years. Just may take.
2
21 May 2024 12:12:22
Where do you see Elliot play Ed1? As no 10 behind main striker? I do like him getting the ball from deeper area and carry the ball forward like he is doing these days.
0
{Ed001's Note - he definitely could play there and that is the position I always have said would suit him best. So yes, that is where I would like to see him if possible.}
0
21 May 2024 13:16:29
If we could release Macca to play further forward I think we would see a completely different player- able to join in more going forward and use his technical ability to create in the final third
Same goes for Szob imo
We seem to have bought both and try to get them to play a way they aren’t used to or potentially suited to playing.
0
21 May 2024 13:34:08
Out of all the players who had poor season in this Liverpool squad.
I never thought we’d be discussing Mac.
7
21 May 2024 13:44:54
Macca struggled as a DM, but imo most of the games he played with Endo behind him he's been good. Not world class per se, but easily good enough.
0
21 May 2024 15:07:44
@navy Keith: I’m not creating any narrative, as you say it’s a all about opinions mine being different to yours. I hope he does become world class. Right now tho the Curtis who got sent off at spurs would get in my team above him every time.
0
21 May 2024 15:30:28
Madmax, yes diomede was world class if he won a world cup winners medal there is no higher honour. Oilred it takes four years to win the world cup.
1
21 May 2024 16:27:37
With Mac at DM we really struggled.
We struggled that much we were 2nd in the league with him playing 14 games there before being injured.
0
{Ed001's Note - but we were having to rescue most of the games. We were getting results despite playing poorly, not because he was playing well. It is idiotic to suggest that it was because of him in DM that we were in second, just shows a lack of understanding of how a team game works and how you can get away with a player having bad games when there are 10 others on your team. Context is key to using stats otherwise they are just meaningless.}
0
21 May 2024 16:41:04
@Iwillbered for those of us who actually watched Diomede play in the 90's in the French league for A. J. A (A;J Auxerre), nobody ever accused him of being world class. So him winning the WC as a bench guy, will never change that. Just saying.
0
20 May 2024 19:34:09
I'm having trouble replying to threads. With regards to the debate on Trent moving to midfield on the basis that he'd be better than Mac Allister. Dear oh dear. Not in my opinion. To suggest a world cup winner, who is top quality in an advanced midfield role and not a number 6, can be replaced by someone who has the occasional dabble, is foolhardy. With all due respect.
And, like I've said many times on here, I don't think Elliott will ever be more than a good squad player.
9
20 May 2024 21:27:17
You on an older Samsung by any chance? I was having all sorts of problems replying to posts on my old J6. The text used to lag as I was typing and then jump and add in whole paragraphs. Sometimes it just completely crashed my Chrome tab. Resorted to typing my replies up in another app and then pasting them in. Not having any issues on the new iPhone using Safari though tbf.
2
20 May 2024 22:04:55
Good squad players got us to a title win. Hendo wasn't more than a good squad player. To imply a squad player is less than a "world class" player I think is a little naive.
5
21 May 2024 00:39:15
So Eddy, I’ll take it a bit further. Some squad players help keep the dressing room humming as well. Whether it’s an older player, local lad, solid player or a natural leader the most successful teams are able to maintain that over prolonged periods of time.
1
21 May 2024 11:38:01
In fairness to Elliott Rome, I'd imagine he's a lot further along in his career than McAllister was at that age. Not saying Elliotts as good because Macca is top class but for his age Elliott has already achieved a lot. Odegaard for example at the same age was off on loan at Sociedad not pulling up any trees. Elliotts form this season has been very good for the majority of games.
0
21 May 2024 14:35:40
That's a good comparison, June, with Odegaard. Listen, I hope you're right about Elliott and he starts every game next season. I love it when our players prove me wrong for the better.
0
20 May 2024 19:03:50
Welcome to Liverpool Arne Slot. YNWA!
13
20 May 2024 21:56:09
Arne Slot, NA NA NA NA NA.
5
20 May 2024 18:44:13
Trent is our best long ball player and maca is our best ball player along with Thiago.
3
20 May 2024 19:33:58
Is Thiago our best player or was he our best player?
1
20 May 2024 21:31:34
Thiago is the footballer version of Schrödingers Cat. He is a world class footballer but if you try to observe evidence to prove it, he will break down and become useless. Quantum physicists will spend years trying to unlock the secret that is Thiago Alcantara.
7
20 May 2024 21:41:21
Thiago was never fit enough to better than anyone we never seen the best of the man.
1
21 May 2024 02:54:16
That’s doing my head in @iwll. How can TAA be our best (long) ball player if Macca and Thiago are (was in Thiago’s case) our best ball players? Only one can be the best, by definition. Not having a go - like I say just can’t cope with the idea that three of them are the best.
0
21 May 2024 06:47:30
I think the answer to your reply West Derby Wanderer 3 Trent is brilliant at passing long balls which are usually counter attacking long passes over 40 yards ( old school I know) Where as Macca and Thiago pass short decisive balls through the lines making openings for the forwards to run onto so that is why i said Trent best long ball passer and other two better short passers.
Also when Trent passes a long pass on most occasions it is not to create a goal scoring opportunity it is to switch play from right to left to start an attack but the goal scoring chance are usually made by Macca or Thiago when he was fit .
I hope that covers my former post West Derby . YNWA.
0
21 May 2024 12:26:30
West Derby Wanderer3, that initial post is still doing my head in.
0
20 May 2024 13:15:47
Ed001, do you think Harvey can be a permanent in our first 11, or an excellent squad guy? I think next year is important with Ed002 mentioning the club are worried about Mac Allister leaving in 2025.
1
{Ed001's Note - I expect Harvey to step up and become a first team fixture. Not sure why Macca leaving would be a worry when Trent can do what he does but better.}
7
20 May 2024 16:46:44
Macca has been player of the season for me. I’d hate for him to leave.
13
20 May 2024 15:45:52
Thanks Ed. Who would your preferred midfield be moving forward? I just pray Trent is finally moved in there. I think that would take us to the next level.
0
{Ed001's Note - Trent and Endo/Bajcetic if it is the way Slot played at Feyenoord with a double pivot. Macca ahead of them.}
3
20 May 2024 16:32:54
Completely disagree with eds post. Macallister is a massive player for us and trent is nowhere near what mac is as a midfielder.
5
{Ed001's Note - Macca had a good few weeks but was god awful for large parts of the season, so not sure how he can be 'massive' compared to Trent. You have no idea what Trent is like as a midfielder to suggest he is nowhere near Macca.}
7
20 May 2024 17:13:57
I love Macca I think he’s a world class midfielder.
Trent’s a great wing back.
6
20 May 2024 17:25:43
Hate to say it because he tries hard but Harvey shouldn’t be near the first 11 if we want to win league/ champs. He’s a squad player at best - as much as he develops he will never have the speed or physicality to be truly world class. He also doesn’t have the skill etc of someone like Silva to make up for it.
Macca is our best midfielder - was only bad when played as a 6. Irreplaceable imo but 100% would give Trent the 8 role and buy a destroyer to compete with Baj. Midfield then sorted just need a CB, RW and CF to challenge on all fronts.
2
20 May 2024 17:36:56
That's the point. He's not a midfielder so to suggest he'd be better at macca in a position he's completely unfamiliar with is nuts (respectfully ed) . It's been over complicated with trent. We have a terrific attacking right back, it's quite simple. Let him flourish and get him to keep improving especially defensively and we'll have an all time great right back. Move him to midfield and when the opposition have the ball it'll be like having 1 less midfielder. Trents flaws would be badly exposed in midfield. Macallister was brilliant when he hit form. Sobosli has been far worse for a lot longer. There was a lot of matches this season where a lot of players were poor but we got the result. It'll be interesting under slot how we play and hopefully improve.
3
20 May 2024 18:20:42
As long as Trent doesn’t play at right back anymore unless we are playing 3 CB’s with wingbacks, I’ll be happy. That has to be the first priority. Second priority is not playing Macca as a 6. I can live with pretty much everything else, even no signings if those 2 things leave with Klopp.
2
20 May 2024 18:41:36
Elliott is 21 years old and finished the season with 4 goals and 11 assists. Incredibly harsh to suggest he is only ever going to be a squad player. I think he had arguably just made himself first choice, so the end of the season has come at the worst time for him. It felt like every time he went on the pitch the last 6-8 weeks he’d either score or create a goal.
12
20 May 2024 18:23:47
I would say that Harvey and Trent are the most creative players we have and both should be playing week in week out.
4
20 May 2024 18:34:52
Normally agree with you Ed01 but you are being pretty unfair on MacAllister.
3
{Ed001's Note - why? I like him but he was extremely poor in the first half of the season. He has not yet made himself massive for the club, though he has earnt a starting spot.}
2
20 May 2024 18:55:40
My thoughts. Elliot looks like a number 10 to me playing out of position. Until he’s used there we will never try Ely know how good he is
Trent is a generational talent with an amazing passing range who at any minute can down tools on the entire season and walk around without a care in the world.
2
20 May 2024 19:11:48
Elliott will be pivotal for Slot in my opinion as Slot’s teams seem to use quick 1-2’s to break through the lines and Elliott is a very technical player.
I think he’s going to start a lot of games.
5
20 May 2024 19:14:21
Agree with NicolBecker. Elliott and Trent have exceptional delivery into the box. Macca can thread an eye of the needle pass or dink a cheeky one over the top, but Trent and Elliott have that whipped pass/ cross in the locker that puts defenders under the kind of pressure they hate. All 3 should start in my opinion. Don’t care where or how, that’s for Slot to figure out. The more playmakers the better.
Have to mention Salah and Nunez though by the way. They just seem to create a multitude of goals without even looking creative, and sometimes actually seeming greedy. But they rack up the numbers in the assist column so they’re doing something right. Salah’s outside of the boot pass/ cross is lethal and Nunez just seems to pick people out somehow!
3
20 May 2024 19:16:40
MIZER I get what your saying, and there are lots that agree with you but I'm with Ed on this one. If Trent is that bad at defending, then surely he shouldn't be in defensive line. Id be all for him being in the double pivot and pushing forward in possession and dropping back when defending. Doubt it will happen though as unfortunately Slot likes his inverted fullbacks apparently, which I think is a real shame and massive mistake to continue with that system. Really hope it doesn't happen.
1
20 May 2024 19:42:04
Trent isn't bad at defending as that is a myth. What he has issues with is being aggressive in moments which makes it look like he cannot defending. Whenever he has had to defend and is switched on fully, he is very good and besides, Klopp did not ask Trent to be a stalwart defensively cos well, that has never been his game cos he is a no. 8/ 10, fro heaven's sake. Why we talk about him like actual defensive FB's is beyond me but whatever.
As for the Macca and Trent debate, we all know DM was not Macca's role so I disagree with Ed01 here. We all saw what the guy was abojut after Hendo got up to speed and he clearly got better. Is he massive? Nope, he is not. At leaset, not yet. I agree with Ed01 there.
For me whether Trent can play in midfield, we will STILL have to see the evidence on the pitch. The proof will be in the pudding at that point.
2
20 May 2024 19:13:40
Ed 001, where do you see Szobo fitting in?
0
{Ed001's Note - if Slot is playing the system he used at Feyenoord, I expect him to play as one of the two behind the main forward. That is a position he has played frequently in the past, for club and country.}
2
20 May 2024 19:59:33
Ed01 - I just disagree that he was poor, he had some poor games but not a poor half of the season.
0
{Ed001's Note - until Endo nailed down the place, he was awful in the deeper role. I think you are forgetting just how bad he was.}
4
20 May 2024 20:10:33
I thought Mac had a very good season at a new club and he was asked to be played out of position for a large part of it which he did with no fuss.
Over the course of this season he recorded twice the most tackles by a LFC player In a premier league game with 8 v Chelsea and 9 v Bournemouth over the last 3 seasons.
He also finished the season with 7 goals and 7 assists which is pretty impressive as he played half the season as Dm.
I’m not sure how many of our midfielders over the years have hit those kind of numbers.
4
20 May 2024 21:29:14
I think that is where we will get the best out of Szobo, also means we don't need to buy a replacement if any of the front 3 were to leave.
0
20 May 2024 22:32:40
I think Macca got better as the season wore on although the odd worldie here and there eased the closer inspection of some of his shall we say quieter games.
As I said mid-season he got better when Endo stepped up.
No doubt that he is a very good player but he’s not world class at least not yet) .
If we do play a 4 - 2 - 3 - 1 then I’d have him in the middle of the 3 with Diaz on the left and Mo on the right. I’d also have TAA as one of the 2 with either the new DM we are going to sign (or so they say), Baj (if he fulfil the potential he has) or Endo.
3
20 May 2024 22:47:54
Judging from slots tactics Trent will be staying at rb inverting, I think if we sign pacho he will be left back and play like gvardoil ake at city making a back 3 while Trent sits in midfield not sure where that leaves Robertson.
0
20 May 2024 23:52:07
It doesn’t make any odds to me. New manager new tactics new favoured players for systems/ positions. As for the Macca debate I think the team wouldn’t miss him provided everyone else was fit.
0
21 May 2024 05:47:41
ed1 - Trent as part of a double pivot would be perfect. I think the key would be partnering with an Endo, or basically just a natural 6.
I think that could really unlock Trent as it'd give him the time to pick out a pass, play deep and as much as people say he can't defend, it would put him in a position where he can defend fro ma position of strength as oppossed to starting in a position which exposes his weaknesses as a defender. Specifically, he can track back, chase, press, use his passion as an all action midfielder to defend. Whereas as a RB and 1 on 1 defending puts him on the backfoot. Time for him to play the position that will bring the best out of his strengths and then we will see an improvement in his supposed weakensses.
Regards Trent vs Macca, we've not really seen Trent as an 8/ 10 so hard to say who'd be better. I'd give it to Macca cos he has been fantastic playing as a CM as oppossed to CDM.
1
21 May 2024 05:28:19
In fairness Macca played the first 14 games at Dm and we were 2nd just 2 points off Arsenal at the top.
If it hadn’t have been for the Spurs decision then we could very well have been top.
3
21 May 2024 07:10:15
My 11 year old daughter can even see Macca is poor at times. Doesn't check the space behind him, awareness is poor at times, too many touches and gets caught in possession too may times. There's a lot better out there and I believe with the right coach, Trent has better attributes to play there.
1
21 May 2024 09:13:27
Fact of the matter is that we haven’t adequately replaced Fabinho and until we do we won’t be winning the league anytime soon. The answer to this does not lie within the existing squad unfortunately, Endo is a useful fill in, Bajcetic is inexperienced and just coming back from a horrific long term injury, Mac isn’t and never will be a number 6 and neither is TAA.
0
{Ed001's Note - exceot Slot doesn't play that way, so it is irrelevant.}
1
21 May 2024 12:28:10
not a bad shout there, @Simply reddd.
0
21 May 2024 10:02:15
Macca had some really great games to the point where he looked undroppable but he was awful for the last part of the season. At fault for 3 goals against Villa for example.
There’s potential there and I hope we keep him but to say he’s massive for us is a huge stretch.
2
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