Liverpool banter 246786


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08 Feb 2024 20:36:34
Sin bins - more opportunity for potential corruption and influence on games. Just stop!

Agree34 Disagree0

08 Feb 2024 21:15:53
I'll be honest, I actually like the new rules. Professionalism, etc, has needed to be enforced for a long time to the benefit of the game and the younger generation.

However, I completely understand the other side. The fact we are giving referees even more power, when they have been shown incapable to wield it, is concerning.

Honestly, wish this was a thing in grassroots, I am sick and tired of listening to players complain, backtalk and have a go at referees. As for coaches, lost cause and I have long since given up telling these supposed adults to show respect and conduct themselves properly for not just their sake, but for the kids they are coaching.

08 Feb 2024 21:50:26
Problem will be consistency. One team will be reduced to 10 men for 10 mins for a similar incident that another team won’t be.

08 Feb 2024 22:10:46
Absolutely terrible idea, you cannot trust these referees to implement this fairly…way to subjective sin binning a player for dissent, similar for cynical fouls…seems like they want referees to be the main attraction and the football is secondary! Can the rule makers not read the room and see that fans want the refs to take a back seat and to be anonymous in a game! Way too much influence in results as it is and they want to crank it up even further, the mind boggles. Rules already exist for dissent and cynical fouls maybe try implement them rather than bringing out the blue card! Surely too early for April fools?

{Ed025's Note - im with you Dow-ney, i wouldn,t have these referees in charge of making a jelly mate..

08 Feb 2024 22:38:48
So it’s not the rule, it’s the implementation.

08 Feb 2024 23:47:40
In theory a very good idea, 10 mins to cool down . but with these refs and var etc it's opening a can of worms . can only see bad things happening with it.

09 Feb 2024 00:16:00
Pulling a player back with no attempt to play the ball, knowing you'll get a yellow and potentially save a goal is gamesmanship at best, more honestly it's rubbishhousery. All the players do it, take one for the team. When it happens to your team, the crowd boo the player and it ruins a potentially goal scoring opportunity, especially in a tight game. 10 mins in a sin bin seems more appropriate than a poxy yellow.

As for the verbals, we all know that it's a problem. Rugby doesn't allow back talk to an official. You tell the ref to F*** off then maybe you should get a card. Personally I like a good swear but I would never say it's warranted. Circling the ref was targeted a few years back and we don't get that anywhere as much as we used to.

About the implementation of it, personally I have a rant during the game but my feeling is get over it. We always have opportunities to score, to play better and to win the game. Since VAR, we seem to be talking about refs much more, people saying the standard has gone down. I don't believe it has so much, I just think it's been under a microscope. The decision didn't go our way, get over it and keep playing.

Right now, I like the idea of blue cards for foul mouthed players and rubbishhousery.

09 Feb 2024 01:10:31
Haven’t read the details but can’t they just be better at enforcing the current rules lol

If they enforced them properly we’d get players sent off left right and centre. So be it I say. The players will learn if the refs just persevered with the boundary.

09 Feb 2024 01:13:53
It reduced dissent significantly in a previous lower league trial.

Sin bin is fair, it punishes the offender but it doesn’t ruin the game.

Worried a red might be inconsistent and put you in the bin for swearing?
Answer - don’t swear.
Worried you might get put in the bin for a cynical foul?
Answer - don’t commit cynical fouls.

I’d go further and I’d have simulation put in too.

Managers will stamp it out as a sin binned player could cost you a game = points = your job.

09 Feb 2024 01:57:40
I am not religious and no offence to those that are but today if I could please ask the big guy upstairs to give a red to the blue card idea please….
In my opinion this nonsense belongs no where near football along with VAR
( seperate note to the big guy “can I get the lottery numbers if your a no on the blue card request, cheers)

09 Feb 2024 05:30:28
Will we need VAR to check if it’s blue or red card?

Ah for the days when Tommy Smith and Ron ‘Chopper ‘ Harris and the like got ‘stuck in’ and Nobby Styles kicked Eusebio from pillar to post every time he got within three yards of the ball in a European Cup Final. There was nowhere near as much money in the game and players used to be normal people and God forbid, a normal bloke with a couple of kids could even afford to take them to the match. Still, technology is out of the box and is the future eh?

{Ed025's Note - its not the same game we remember WDW, too much money has led to corruption and cheating mate, players rolling around feigning injury and referees wanting to be the centre of attention means its finished for me and my love for the not so beautiful game is over in many respects..

09 Feb 2024 05:50:42
My concern is also about the implementation of these rules

Officials do not take accountability for their "incompetence" as it stands currently, and now we want to give them even more power and control

Just shows you that those in charge are so far removed from what is actually going on.

09 Feb 2024 06:56:24
But isn’t it also the point that we are introducing a “third tier” of punishment?

They struggle to get it right with two! What chance have we got that they will actually do anything vaguely competent with three.

Two yellows equals a red.
Two blues equals a red.
A blue and a yellow equals a red.
Or we have a straight red.

Good job Graham Poll isn’t still around poor bloke would have a coronary.

That has precisely no chance of working.

09 Feb 2024 07:05:10
Think main issue is will be if implemented fairly and clarity in how rules are written. Seems refs are struggling with carrying out current rules so adding more complexity will most likely cause more problems than it solves.

In regards to dissent still think should just be a straight yellow, if it continues then red ( and don’t see issue with second yellow immediately following the first if player continues) . If people can refrain from doing in mma, boxing and rugby etc don’t see why can’t in football.

For tactical fouls actually think is better as with the amount of subs and overall squad size a yellow isn’t exactly fair. If a team has 70% possession opposition likely don’t get 5 chances to break and score so can just take the yellows no problem. Same with diving as influence goes down all the way to kids level football, parents even joke / laugh nowadays how from watching prem 5/ 6 year olds dive or role around feigning injury…which TBf is funny to see but shows how lack of sportsmanship shown influences next generation.

09 Feb 2024 07:08:59
The sin bin bad idea for soccer, have seen it in gaelic football and the team that loses the man will waste time and fake injury during the 10mins to use the time up
Having seen good improvement on that front with the amount of added time they have put on this season, this will be step back. At least 2 players will go down injured in that 10mins everytime.

{Ed001's Note - then they should stop the clock and not included the time in the 10min the player is in the sin bin. Hardly rocket science to stop that happening.}

09 Feb 2024 07:26:59
Mango it is used in grass roots football and has been for a few seasons. There is no blue card but you can get sin binned for 7 mins.

09 Feb 2024 07:28:20
We have sin bins in our grassroots league as one of the pilot leagues
Some refs hand them out like sweets- others don’t bother

Inconsistency means moaning at the ref hasn’t really reduced

Consequences? : complete lack of refs on a Saturday.

09 Feb 2024 09:10:09
I'm willing to give it a try for a year. Give it a one year trial as in the lower league and see what we get. I see arguments both for and against, but I'm open to the idea of trying new things to stamp out all that is "undesirable" in the game. Yes, the game is changing; but then so does everything else in life.

09 Feb 2024 09:50:35
Completely unnecessary rule.

09 Feb 2024 07:52:36
I agree with JK23 - the only thing that’s consistent is the lack of consistency.

You’re on the money Ed25 - the game’s changed dramatically for the worse and accelerated rapidly downhill since PL. there’s absolutely nobody on any of football’s governing body from the FA upwards that gives a toss about fans of the game.

{Ed025's Note - its obscene the money these players are getting WDW, how can anyone justify getting hundreds of thousands of pounds every week for playing a sport ffs, and dont even start me on the agents, there are people choosing whether to heat or eat in this country never mind all the starving all around the globe mate, i just give up with it all now..

09 Feb 2024 10:04:07
just a thought on the blue card thing, so a player gets 10 mins, then his team mate goes down injured for a few mins and then there is a bit of time wasting and another team mate goes down and the 10 mins would be up, they would be better getting auto offsides and the hand ball clarified rather than bringing in pointless blue cards.

09 Feb 2024 10:21:24
Ed01 is spot on with dealing with the the wasting. just stop the clock

In no time football will become like American sports.7 bloody hours for a game to finish.

09 Feb 2024 11:34:35
Imagine if Naby Keita was playing for Liverpool and got a blue card. There wouldn't be any time wasting. Players would go all out to play as much football as possible in the ten minutes he was off the pitch.

09 Feb 2024 11:58:51
I would be interested to see what happens if a goalkeeper picked up a blue card. Do you put an outfield player in goal for 10 minutes or bring on a substitute keeper just for that 10 minute period and waste a sub? It be chaos. Ridiculous idea all round.
Focus on improving the refereeing standards in all levels of the game rather than creating more complicated rules which will only be enforced by subjective opinions.

09 Feb 2024 11:55:29
Exactly, Faith. We would like them to enforxe the actual laws better and in a more equitble fashion BUT no, they are about to saddle us with another nonsense with this blue card/ sin bin stuff whereas these same frauds don't even know how to administer the actual cards (red and yellow) already in place properly.

Also as Ed01 said, why not just stop the clock ahenever there is a stoppage of play at any point in the game? That would remove any form of time wasting tactics completely BUT we all know they won't cos that takes away the drama and controversy that could happen in injury time when things get frantic and desperate. Also, it gives an opportunity for the managers to moan and hide behind it when they conceded a goal to lose or draw. Again, the simple fixes are there BUT they deliberately do nothing.

09 Feb 2024 12:26:32
Ed25, we’ve had two players in recent times getting hundreds of thousands per year for sitting on a physic’s table. Every time they break out into a jog they are out for about 3 or 4 month. Pampered, but you try telling that to the youth of today ?.

{Ed025's Note - we all have them WDW, we are paying Deli Alli £100.000 a week to sit on his arse mate it really does beggar belief, in my ideal world they should all be on pay as you play and get paid on a points gained basis at say £20K per point, if you win you have a nice £60k coming your way but if you lose... nothing, that would sort all these shirkers out..

09 Feb 2024 13:02:59
It’s just the state of football isn’t it? We are afraid for new ideas because we know how bad implementation can be. I do think trials are still worthwhile and they are trials afterall to experiment.

09 Feb 2024 13:50:40
The third card, the GAA (Gaelic Athletic Association) over here in Ireland came across this idea some years ago for Hurling and Gaelic football and their idea is a far better one in my opinion.

Instead of the player being sent off for 10 minutes he is replaced for 10 minutes. This way it is the player who gets punished and not the team. It happens very quickly with little interuption to the game.

If the current idea for a blue card is brought into "soccer" it just means the team affected will slow the game down and waste time until the player is back on. I know the time will be added on, but it will be added on at the end when the player is back on.

This wheel has already been invented. The football authorities need to look around.

09 Feb 2024 15:47:44
The blue card is not inherently a bad idea, the issue is the timing with application of the rules being objectively terrible at the moment. This will not help at this moment in time. Get the rules we have right first, then make improvements. This isn't going to end well at all.

09 Feb 2024 16:07:31
Haha full on doesn’t give a hoot anymore and is saying what he really thinks. When asked about the blue he said

"The introduction of a new card would just give more opportunities to fail because the discussion then would be, 'should it have been a blue card, or a yellow card? '

"It does not sound like a fantastic idea but I can't remember when the last fantastic idea came from these guys, [or] if they ever had one. "

Good lad!

09 Feb 2024 16:08:13
Referees have always been inconsistent. It’s only highlighted more now than ever before. Replays, freeze frame pictures, VAR . I think it’s because these days we are all aware of the mistakes being made. Again I will say that players don’t help one bit with the rolling about and diving that goes on (cheating), but this concept that refs have got worse I don’t agree with, they are now just more under the microscope.

09 Feb 2024 14:16:07
Ed25 to reform football.

{Ed025's Note - thats my cunning plan max, i just need the greedy sods at the FA now to approve my reformation theories mate.. :)

09 Feb 2024 16:55:03
Done to death, but I totally agree with everyone who says it's a terrible idea because the refs can't be trusted with the power.

It's a terribly dumb idea, but the dumbest part might be the name: sin bin? Really shows the level of genus we have officiating doesn't it.

09 Feb 2024 18:56:01
The whole point is to stamp out dissent and tactical fouls.
If it does that then brilliant.
If it doesn’t then scrap the trial.

Personally I’m fed up with the level of abuse players get away with these days - ever since the PL came about really. People see it on TV and repeat it on a Sunday League game - NOT ACCEPTABLE.

I’m more fed up with diving than tactical fouls.

The dissent has to stop. From players and managers/ coaches.

{Ed025's Note - i agree with most of that Ron but i dont see this blue card malarkey helping if im honest, its just adding more confusion to the issues that should be more vigorously enforced under the present laws, if someone dives or simulates then book them or even send them off!, hit them with a 3 match ban and it will soon cure the problem mate..

09 Feb 2024 19:33:58
Retrospective action would be better than blue cards.

{Ed025's Note - in the ED025 new rule book Ashy, if someone goes down holding their face when they have not been touched...a big groc comes on and actually punches them in the face mate, it will catch on i promise you.. :)

09 Feb 2024 20:10:53
I’m with you Ron, all this feigning injury and blatant diving is an embarrassment ( Liverpool players included) i absolutely hate seeing grown men rolling around clutching there face when they have been hit in the chest! VAR should send the ref to the monitor and have the player carded for simulation which should be a red card offence. Red cards will soon deter the cheats! Bruno Fernandez would be in early retirement the amount of time he clutches his face after his shin has been tapped.

{Ed025's Note - thats a good solution Dow-ney...but still prefer mine mate.. :)

09 Feb 2024 21:23:57
I heard that it’ll be a sky blue card, 115 gsm in weight.

09 Feb 2024 22:00:09
Speaking about the abuse.

I have a question. we see on a constant basis how the refs get abused and sworn at by the players. I mean, we don't have to be expert lip readers, it's actually that obvious.

9 out of 10 times, the ref doesn't ool the player for abuse, so my question is when a player actually does get booked. what must the player have said.

09 Feb 2024 23:34:46
I remember at one point a lot of people were all for VAR, look how that turned out.

Personally, I think I'm with Ron on this one, give it a go. Do I see it working? not really but I think for the reasons he has stated it's worth looking at.

09 Feb 2024 23:36:03
@Polecat, why should just the individual be punished .? They are part of the team and the team should be punished too.

10 Feb 2024 01:10:05
Sounds like a bonkers idea to me.
To my understanding currently only the ref keeps the time in football. How will the ref keep track of multiple people going off after one or two minute intervals?

I would much rather prefer that an orange card is given which counts as 2 yellow cards towards the 10 yellow cards a player can collect before they serve a mandatory two match suspension in the season.

10 Feb 2024 06:07:21
Let’s face it this blue card business is a load of crap. It’s being brought in because the refs can’t do their job. For years we’ve had this dissent issue and were told the officials were going to clamp down on it by issuing yellow cards. What happens they do it for the first 2/ 3 games of the season then it stops. Mainly because the refs then give a yellow card for a next to nothing foul a player gets sent off then it’s highlighted as soft sending off and spoiling the game. The bigger issue is the tolerance level for yellow cards it’s ridiculous every foul now is deemed a yellow card. I love my rugby and think football needs to get closer to rugby in terms of the respect players have for officials, but then at the same time the refs are helped more in rugby with TMO where in football the refs do like to be centre of attention. Sin bins is a horrible idea for football and will kill it. It works for rugby in a game where there are far more stoppages anyway, line outs and scrums eat up much time but the players need that slight rest because of the physicality of the game. In football it will completely ruin the spectacle as the team with players in the sin bin will just time waste unless they are already losing.

10 Feb 2024 06:27:06
What happens if say it’s used in a cup replay and your in extra time, 115th min score level. A player is blue carded does that mean he can’t take a pen for the first 5 mins of the shoot out? lol.

10 Feb 2024 07:02:12
I think we should ask why these imbeciles in charge would want to add blue cards and sin bins to the game, when at this very point in time, they have all the tools already to deal with dissent and cheating (time wasting, feigning injury, etc) . just use retrospective action onbthe offenders and ban them accordingly

Why all the fuss about blue cards, sin bins, and the like?

Sounds like another hidden agenda.

{Ed025's Note - just what we need JLC, more power to these power crazed idiots who officiate the game...unbelievable jeff..

10 Feb 2024 11:11:29
If a ref decided ‘today is the day I enforce all the rules every time’ then the game would finish quite early due to a lack of players on one team or another.

There has been too much leeway given for abuse, simulation, tactical fouls.

Enforcing the rules now would ruin the games and lead to potentially awful consequences for the officials.

Sin bin doesn’t ruin the game.

Personally I’d do away with blue cards and say yellow card = sin bin. That’s it.

I’d also change VAR and make it, as other sports, a limited number of incorrect appeals.
No appeal = VAR doesn’t get involved.
Appeal = tell the 4th official exactly what you’re appealing and ONLY that is checked.
Not was the player off side 3 minutes before or did a player catch someone’s shirt on the other side of the pitch. What are you checking. Then VAR checks that.

1 extra incorrect appeal after 80 mins.

Here Endeth the sermon ?.

10 Feb 2024 18:30:10
Whilst we are on the subject can we have sin bins for refs and maybe sin bins for people who film the bloody match instead of watching it yes sky im talking about you.

11 Feb 2024 00:02:55
Can't agree with anyone who likes the idea of this blue card.
I do agree more needs to be done to stamp out dissent, diving and deliberate cynical fouls, but a sin bin isn't the answer.
For those 10 minutes, the team down to 10 will park the bus and time waste. Yes you can stop the clock when they're rolling around feigning injury, but as a spectacle the game effectively comes to a stop for 10 minutes. Everyone's already sick of VAR slowing the game down and taking away the excitement, all a sin bin us going to do is make that 100 times worse.

11 Feb 2024 10:26:45
If a team is behind and they lose a player to the sin bin, they are not going to park the bus. Not if they need a goal.

12 Feb 2024 14:15:28
So. just so I understand all this. all season fans, managers etc have completely bemoaned VAR and the officiating, in particular the inconsistencies that we see from one week to another - are these decisions too subjective? Why has VAR not gotten involved? What has VAR seen in the same replay that we have all seen to make that call? Does the ground the teams play at have a bearing on these idiotic calls? The club badges involved perhaps are the difference maker? Do the rules change from one eek to the next? Is that why they are so hard to follow?

So many questions to be answered and in answer, the PGMOL have decided to what, introduce yet another level of subjectivity to this? I mean, given all the issues with officiating this season, just who thought 'you know what'd work and fix everything - a blue card! ' - I mean jeez what are they smoking over there? They can't even issue yellow and red cards right, what is the point of having something else to issue apologies for?

Already we can see blue cards issued for nothing, for reasons known only to those in the VAR booth, Dermot Gallagher will be on Sky Sports telling us all why it was a correct decision then the next week, when the same thing happens and no card issued, he'll be back on Sky Sports with a different interpretation to the previous week re-explaining and rewriting those same rules to tell us why this decision was in fact correct as well.

12 Feb 2024 20:42:42
Ron they absolutely are. If a team are a goal down and lose someone to a 10 minute sin bin, they 100% park the bus until that player is back on. Only time that doesn't happen is a blue card coming out from about 75th minute onwards. Even at 70 mins, they park the bus and turn it into a snore fest for 10 and go for it for the last 10. Throw this in on top of VAR and the sport as a spectacle is on its knees.



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